My date with Traffic Court, Court 21

[Macrosszero]

9 hours ago, Throttle2 said:

ok.

But i was talking purely about driving fast 
And that in singapore, there is absolutely no need to go that fast.

wasnt talking about reasons leading to loss of licence 

My thoughts must’ve gone off tangent.
 

But on your point, cars these days with their dual clutch gearboxes, fast spooling turbos and easy stage 1/2 tunes are relatively easy to take from 90 to a very illegal 150 by a couple of downshifts and few seconds of WOT. It’s not accidental for sure, it’s the deliberate want to drive fast to flex, want to race. 

[mersaylee]

56 minutes ago, Macrosszero said:

My thoughts must’ve gone off tangent.
 

But on your point, cars these days with their dual clutch gearboxes, fast spooling turbos and easy stage 1/2 tunes are relatively easy to take from 90 to a very illegal 150 by a couple of downshifts and few seconds of WOT. It’s not accidental for sure, it’s the deliberate want to drive fast to flex, want to race. 

No need dual clutch...agreed fully on the deliberate part...even panel van with a 60 sticker can jiak me when oredi in the 3 digits...😅

[Soya]

9 hours ago, Benarsenal said:

Eh, very dodgy leh.

When they sent you the "injury" claim you never dispute meh?

EDIT: Sorry this was meant for Joe

Lesson learnt: Dun buy wowo. Cannot claim for 'whiplash injury' or any of that shit.....

 

[mersaylee]

3 minutes ago, Soya said:

Lesson learnt: Dun buy wowo. Cannot claim for 'whiplash injury' or any of that shit.....

 

Ehh...someone managed to claim gao gao...my forever idol...😁

Oh wait...sekali same same...the hokkien saying has it - when one is suay, feed the bird also becums a rooster 😅

[Tkseah]

10 hours ago, Joe_X123 said:

Perhaps I need to elaborate a little more since my very humble request for some information has gone tangential for their own amusement by some.  Thanks to the rest who have pointed me to some useful information.

I was involved in a collision with another car driver. All looks fine initially and was just glad no one was injured. We towed our cars away in the presence of the traffic policemen. A month later I received a letter from TP requesting me to make a police report which I complied. The real reason for the request to make a traffic report become clear only later when his lawyer copied me a letter to my insurer about a claim of $20,000 for an “injury” sustained during the accident. The lawyer attached his doctor’s bill as well…a “hefty” sum of around $100.

Ten months after the accident I had my court hearing. As a result of that “injury” claim, I was charged with a traffic offence under section 64 (2B) (a) of the Road traffic Act. My license was suspended for a year despite this is my first traffic offence in 30 years of driving. I wanted to appeal against the penalty imposed by the court (but not the TP traffic charge) but the lawyer wanted $17,000 for his services, so I had to drop the idea.

Maybe after reading this, perhaps everyone should be prepared to suddenly have their driving license revoked just because someone has decided they wanted to make some easy money from an unfortunate situation. Therefore, the replies and guidance I was hoping to obtain from someone who has gone through this process is maybe very applicable to all of you as well…one day.  Nevertheless it is an experience that I would not want to wish for even my enemies.

Just to add, contrary to what we hear that the traffic judge will be very lenient for first time offenders, it is just a myth. They are guided by the charges proposed by the prosecutor and will normally not deviate from it.

My thoughts based on what you shared.. that TP was called and both cars had to be towed away, the accident can't be minor.. the whiplash injury is likely real, though 20k may be debatable.  I gather that TP upon investigation had concluded that u are at fault causing causing the accident, thus the TP charge against u.  I believe traffic judge during sentencing looks at the damage done.. if reckless driving but no damage or injury done then maybe can give chance.

Can't change much now. Take it as lesson learnt and be more careful in future.  Good reminder that a moment of folly can really have serious consequences.

[Jellandross]

22 hours ago, Macrosszero said:

Special drivers’ education classes are for drivers who have expended their 24 DIPS.

https://www.cdc.com.sg/course/dips-retraining

As far as I know, you have to retake your driving test, as suspensions exceeding 12 months are essentially a revocation.

https://carro.sg/blog/what-happens-after-your-license-has-been-revoked/

Any competent driver should not be afraid to have to retake their test. If they are worried about passing, they shouldn’t be on the road in the first place.

There is also a safety class for more serious offenses but not yet 24pts - give 3pts discount after course completion. Those kena 12pts confirm will go for this as an insurance.

https://www.police.gov.sg/media-room/news/20171031_others_revisions_to_safe_driving_course_others

Edited May 10, 2022 by Jellandross

[Joe_X123]

Yes, I didn't dispute the TP findings. I was at fault but there were some factors attributed to the weather that day but that does not change the outcome. 

I believe there are many drivers out there who are suddenly faced with the same situation I was in. I googled intensively hoping to find some sharing by others on how they best handled their own situation, e.g. did they hire a lawyer for the court hearing? did they go through a school to arrange for a practical test date or DIY?  the basic theory test is supposed to be good for life but why are the various sites indicating I need to re-take? when can I start applying for my provisional driving license? where can I confirm when the exact end of my suspension date is as the only time, I was informed is a verbal mention by the traffic judge and no follow up letter whatsoever by TP other than a letter asking me to surrender my license…. and a thousand other questions that went through my mind. 

Sad to say, there is absolutely nothing I could find on the net, or perhaps my googling skill indeed sucks. Again and again, the search engine diverted me to the Road Transport Act and some lawyer’s websites.

Prior to my turn in my court hearing, I sat through at least 15 other cases and all of them involved drink driving. My case was the first one that morning that does not involve drink driving and was ushered to a different part of the courtroom. Each one of them had a license suspension or jail…or both. So, I believe there are many out there in the same boat. I would really hope we could come in to share their own experience for the benefit or others.

You may think you are a safe driver, but one fleeting moment of distraction on the road, suddenly your driving license that you cherish so much is taken away from you. Nothing can change an accident that has occurred, but I believe there are still some variables that we can alter how the event impacts us later.

I admit I was involved in two other traffic accidents in my 30 years of driving. I was rear ended by others and not my fault. Once by a school bus that damaged my car rather badly. The bus was from my daughter’s primary school then. In each situation, if I had been feeling “nasty” and demanded a few days of MC from a GP, both the drivers license would likely be suspended as well and the bus driver would have lost his source of income.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Joe_X123

[RogerNg_185295]

8 hours ago, Tkseah said:

My thoughts based on what you shared.. that TP was called and both cars had to be towed away, the accident can't be minor.. the whiplash injury is likely real, though 20k may be debatable.  I gather that TP upon investigation had concluded that u are at fault causing causing the accident, thus the TP charge against u.  I believe traffic judge during sentencing looks at the damage done.. if reckless driving but no damage or injury done then maybe can give chance.

Can't change much now. Take it as lesson learnt and be more careful in future.  Good reminder that a moment of folly can really have serious consequences.

They should jail him

[Comage]

9 hours ago, Joe_X123 said:

Yes, I didn't dispute the TP findings. I was at fault but there were some factors attributed to the weather that day but that does not change the outcome. 

I believe there are many drivers out there who are suddenly faced with the same situation I was in. I googled intensively hoping to find some sharing by others on how they best handled their own situation, e.g. did they hire a lawyer for the court hearing? did they go through a school to arrange for a practical test date or DIY?  the basic theory test is supposed to be good for life but why are the various sites indicating I need to re-take? when can I start applying for my provisional driving license? where can I confirm when the exact end of my suspension date is as the only time, I was informed is a verbal mention by the traffic judge and no follow up letter whatsoever by TP other than a letter asking me to surrender my license…. and a thousand other questions that went through my mind. 

Sad to say, there is absolutely nothing I could find on the net, or perhaps my googling skill indeed sucks. Again and again, the search engine diverted me to the Road Transport Act and some lawyer’s websites.

Prior to my turn in my court hearing, I sat through at least 15 other cases and all of them involved drink driving. My case was the first one that morning that does not involve drink driving and was ushered to a different part of the courtroom. Each one of them had a license suspension or jail…or both. So, I believe there are many out there in the same boat. I would really hope we could come in to share their own experience for the benefit or others.

You may think you are a safe driver, but one fleeting moment of distraction on the road, suddenly your driving license that you cherish so much is taken away from you. Nothing can change an accident that has occurred, but I believe there are still some variables that we can alter how the event impacts us later.

I admit I was involved in two other traffic accidents in my 30 years of driving. I was rear ended by others and not my fault. Once by a school bus that damaged my car rather badly. The bus was from my daughter’s primary school then. In each situation, if I had been feeling “nasty” and demanded a few days of MC from a GP, both the drivers license would likely be suspended as well and the bus driver would have lost his source of income.

Doubt you would find anyone else who are in a similar situation as you, and are willing to share it online in public forums or social media, because:

- Reckless drivers are (mostly), well, simply reckless and show no remorse. If no remorse exists, why should they share their experience with others? The only sharing they'll do is when they're bragging to their friends in a pub

By that generalised demographic (and I'm quite sure I ain't wrong on this), you won't find any real-life accounts online.

Those who are truly remorseful, would be too ashamed to share any of their experiences online in case their identities get busted.

[Joe_X123]

2 hours ago, Comage said:

Doubt you would find anyone else who are in a similar situation as you, and are willing to share it online in public forums or social media, because:

- Reckless drivers are (mostly), well, simply reckless and show no remorse. If no remorse exists, why should they share their experience with others? The only sharing they'll do is when they're bragging to their friends in a pub

By that generalised demographic (and I'm quite sure I ain't wrong on this), you won't find any real-life accounts online.

Those who are truly remorseful, would be too ashamed to share any of their experiences online in case their identities get busted.

There are....for one, this thread starter. He came forward to share his experience for the benefit of many and did not asked to be judged. 8 years later, his thread is still being read by many who had also received an invitation to the traffic court.

You need not be reckless for an accident to occur. An accident can occur even when we are travelling well within the speed limit. For example if a cat ran into the road and you swerved to avoid it and resulted in a fatal accident, would this be deemed reckless driving? In the eyes of the law, it is. In this respect, no one is immune.

The traffic judge actually said to me...  "it is very unfortunate it happened to you..." It may mean absolutely nothing to others, but I took much comfort by his expression even though he had to mete out the punishment as asked by the prosecutor. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Joe_X123

[Comage]

58 minutes ago, Joe_X123 said:

There are....for one, this thread starter. He came forward to share his experience for the benefit of many and did not asked to be judged. 8 years later, his thread is still being read by many who had also received an invitation to the traffic court.

You need not be reckless for an accident to occur. An accident can occur even when we are travelling well within the speed limit. For example if a cat ran into the road and you swerved to avoid it and resulted in a fatal accident, would this be deemed reckless driving? In the eyes of the law, it is. In this respect, no one is immune.

The traffic judge actually said to me...  "it is very unfortunate it happened to you..." It may mean absolutely nothing to others, but I took much comfort by his expression even though he had to mete out the punishment as asked by the prosecutor. 

You, along with OP - maybe are the outliers, as I would surmise. Coming forward with your accounts already indicates remorse to a certain extent - which I would suppose is admirable to a certain extent.

Nevertheless, such accounts of breaking the (traffic) laws, and then coming forth with the first-hand encounter are just rare and few.

Just like how prison inmates are released after serving their sentence - you wouldn't see many of the coming forward with their accounts on their own. Sure, there's always the odd-documentary that highlights prison life, but you rarely see them coming forth to tell their story. 

And yes, you need not be reckless for an accident to occur like what you said above.

[Joe_X123]

I do not wish to make this about me. It was not my intention. It started innocently enough. I just genuinely wanted some information and I was even prepared to play along  with the "asking for a friend" ruse...LOL. I had listed a sampling of the questions in my earlier thread. For example,  I would have thought many would be interested in a very basic question such as how much a lawyer charges if we engage them for the first hearing as part of the plea mitigation. Surprise surprise....not one question was ever found in this forum or any other forums.  It also took me a while to find out that not everyone is eligible for Pro-bono services...after many email correspondences later.

[Tkseah]

8 hours ago, Joe_X123 said:

There are....for one, this thread starter. He came forward to share his experience for the benefit of many and did not asked to be judged. 8 years later, his thread is still being read by many who had also received an invitation to the traffic court.

You need not be reckless for an accident to occur. An accident can occur even when we are travelling well within the speed limit. For example if a cat ran into the road and you swerved to avoid it and resulted in a fatal accident, would this be deemed reckless driving? In the eyes of the law, it is. In this respect, no one is immune.

The traffic judge actually said to me...  "it is very unfortunate it happened to you..." It may mean absolutely nothing to others, but I took much comfort by his expression even though he had to mete out the punishment as asked by the prosecutor. 

Unfortunately life is not always fair. 

Have u tried calling the driving centers to ask about the tests? I think they should be able to answer your queries regarding the tests and when u can register for them.

 

[Cheesey74]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:04 AM, Joe_X123 said:

I was told if a license suspension is 12 months and above, a person would need to re-take their driving license. Tried to google more details but found none. Can I therefore check if anyone has more info on this? For example, does a person require to take the Basic theory again? Can the registration for a driving test date (after the suspension) be booked while under suspension? Thanks.

Yes, if suspend more than a year, ur licence is gone cos usually for us normal 24pts driver that commit normal traffic offence, we follow the usual DIPS rule below

a) 1st & 2nd suspension: 12/24 weeks
(b) 3rd suspension: 1 year
(c) 4th suspension: 2 years
(d) 5th suspension (onwards): 3 years.

 So if kena 3rd suspension, ur licence will be revoke, i got a fren kena this before.

I was suspended twice during my younger riding days, first suspension 3 months, go study discount to 1 months, 2nd suspension 6 months, go study discount to 3 months, after that i bo ji become guai guai rider/driver... haha.

As for ur questions below, from what i know.

does a person require to take the Basic theory again? ==> Yes, once revoke, need to retake everything like a new learner driver

Can the registration for a driving test date (after the suspension) be booked while under suspension? ==> Most probably u can only book new driving TP test date AFTER ur suspension.

Hope it helps and life sucks at times, all will be fine again soon, good luck yeah.

[mersaylee]

1 hour ago, Tkseah said:

Unfortunately life is not always fair. 

Have u tried calling the driving centers to ask about the tests? I think they should be able to answer your queries regarding the tests and when u can register for them.

 

Unfortunately, life is always not fair...buy 1234 cum out as 4321 or 5678...😁

Only can hope to learn to deal with it the sooner the better...

Just like NCD...from 50 to kosong in one day...back to 50 before one even realises it as time flies...do focus on what's more important in life like how to lawfully get rid of the mother in law for some...😝

of course, unless a vehicle license is tied to a livelihood then yah...need more think through...

[Joe_X123]

Thanks to all who had replied with kind words of encouragement.

I would like to take this opportunity to share an important point to anyone who has received the dreaded Traffic Police letter indicating that you have committed an offence under Section 64 (Reckless or dangerous driving) or 65 (Driving without due care or reasonable consideration) of the Singapore Road Traffic Act (RTA) and need to appear in Court. I am deliberately using some of the common key words so that a search may hopefully lead you to this page.

If you are a FIRST TIME offender and NOT charged for drink driving, Sections 64 and 65 of the RTA does not mention any license suspension BUT the prosecutor could still use Section 42 (Disqualification for offences) of the RTA to suspend your license. (the reason you are reading this, whoever you are, is because you are likely a first time offender)

You will NOT know if section 42 will be used against you until you appear in court for your first hearing.

With this information, you may want to consider getting legal advice before you plead guilty on the first hearing. If not sure, you can ask for a rescheduling of your court hearing to seek legal advice first if necessary.

Before a lawyer takes on your case or before you decide to engage him, there will be a first consultation. Typical charges are around $700 per hour but the range differs significantly from one firm to another. Some may consider charging a lump sum instead of hourly with the first consultation charges waived if you engage them.

I am not legally trained, so if there is any error in my write up above, please point it out to all.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Joe_X123

[Joe_X123]

I recall someone I knew had once asked if abandoning our car (due to mechanical failure) on one of the fast lanes of the expressway is an offence. I would like to instead pose this to others another highly likely scenario. Assuming in the process of coasting our already dead car to the road shoulder, it resulted in another car losing control and resulted in his fatality. Would the driver serve jail time (custodial sentence) in this hypothetical scenario? The punishment for causing death is min 2 years jail term according to the RTA.

Having sat through 2 court hearings and seen how the court was meting out jail sentencing left and right, there are a lot of people currently who is in jail at any one time for traffic related offence, but we hardly hear anyone talking about it, at least not in this forum.

[shrjun]

3 hours ago, Joe_X123 said:

I recall someone I knew had once asked if abandoning our car (due to mechanical failure) on one of the fast lanes of the expressway is an offence. I would like to instead pose this to others another highly likely scenario. Assuming in the process of coasting our already dead car to the road shoulder, it resulted in another car losing control and resulted in his fatality. Would the driver serve jail time (custodial sentence) in this hypothetical scenario? The punishment for causing death is min 2 years jail term according to the RTA.

Having sat through 2 court hearings and seen how the court was meting out jail sentencing left and right, there are a lot of people currently who is in jail at any one time for traffic related offence, but we hardly hear anyone talking about it, at least not in this forum.

Were these mostly drink driving cases or speeding cases ? If speeding I really need to control my right foot ! I almost never drive recklessly but my average speed can be higher than the limit 😅