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Does having turbo really mean better fuel effiency?

Ahgong

By Ahgong,
in General Car Discussion

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Sopskysalat

Sopskysalat

4th Gear

Let the sharing continues...

 

 

The obvious and most pressing beneficial need for turbocharging is related to the challenge to improve fuel economy and reduce CO2 and other emissions. Adding a turbocharger does not automatically save fuel in itself but it does mean that a smaller turbocharged engine can achieve the same power output as a much larger engine, without compromising fuel economy under lower power demand conditions (engine downsizing).

 

To operate successfully, highly boosted four-stroke engines must therefore use a lower static compression ratio, which then reduces efficiency and negates the benefits of any further downsizing. Launch feel can also be a challenge for turbocharged engines due to the time required to accelerate the turbocharger from idle to generate boost pressures. Mechanically driven superchargers can help to resolve this issue, but these devices also increase losses and reduce efficiency.

 

Engine downsizing has long been acknowledged as an important route to the improvement of fuel economy. In general terms, a smaller engine has less internal friction so that less energy is wasted merely in moving its components. It also has less thermal inertia, which means that it warms up more quickly and is thus more thermally efficient in a typical mixed-duty, real-world operation

 

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Blueray

Blueray

Hypersonic

actually more and more auto makers are opting for turbo, even the Japanese ... so better to learn how to use the turbo and how to take care of turbo engine.

 

am still old school about no replacement for displacement ... so for the usual 4 door compact saloon ... me thinks should be min 1.4l turbo ... if 1.6l turbo betterer ...

 

just my butt feel [:p]

 

 

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zerobim08

zerobim08

4th Gear

its ok no need to hide..

 

old foggies dont drive hatches especially 2 doors.. [:p]

 

but then again roadsters seems to be a favioruite of old man.. :secret-laugh:

No lah...totally wrong association [:p] ...as the saying goes...you are comfortable with things that fit your "profile" (hint: rotate the car 90 degree clockwise vertically - oops I did it again).   Men, stay away from the beer and midnight snacks!!!  [rolleyes]

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Ahbengdriver

Ahbengdriver

6th Gear
(edited)

both me n my wife's car are TC-ed.  If I were to compare TC to NA, in moderate driving, FC can be a bit better, but a bit only.  I mean that's why manufacturers are downsizing their engines and adding 1 to 2 turbos right.  problem in SG is we do start/stop driving so much the FC is not significant enough for some of us to notice sometimes.  But when u take it up to Msia, then you will be able to see a bit more benefit of a well tuned TC car.  The extra torque allows easier overtaking and speedup with or without gear downshifts, you don't have to gas down the pedal so much so burning lesser fuel.  on cruising mode, TC cars can be very efficient too.  Still, having said, if one tends to push harder n drive like a chao ahbengdriver, the net FC savings can be insignificant.

 

By comparsion, my experience with a 2L NA car is it burnt half a tank(about 31 litres) of ron98 from SG to Sungei Besi toll, whereas a 3L TC car actually burnt more around 3/4 tank of ron98 over the same route, but of cos I reached the destination 30 to 40 mins quicker.  Partly, I attribute the high FC to on/off driving in Sports mode.  On another case, a recent trip to Melaka in a 2L TC burnt only 1/3 tank of petrol(about 33 litres) from SG on ron98.  So I think not all TC cars are the same, some more Fuel efficient whereas others are built just for power/speed.

 

The biggest issue I find is TC cars run very hot, so many hoses/parts fail or break quicker n maintenance needs to be more regular.  Engine oil is also boiled, often at 100 deg C over long periods if running  higher boost so needs to be replaced more frequently to protect the engine.  I change the oil every 4 months regardless.

Edited by Ahbengdriver
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Lala81

Lala81

Hypersonic

If people drive a turbo car like a guniang

 

then it will be same as a NA car.

 

:D

 

yes ...  i find it super irritating when i'm behind a car which i know can accelerate much faster.  [:|] damade then still driving at 40-60kph with open road ahead.

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Weez911

Weez911

Supersonic

both me n my wife's car are TC-ed.  If I were to compare TC to NA, in moderate driving, FC can be a bit better, but a bit only.  I mean that's why manufacturers are downsizing their engines and adding 1 to 2 turbos right.  problem in SG is we do start/stop driving so much the FC is not significant enough for some of us to notice sometimes.  But when u take it up to Msia, then you will be able to see a bit more benefit of a well tuned TC car.  The extra torque allows easier overtaking and speedup with or without gear downshifts, you don't have to gas down the pedal so much so burning lesser fuel.  on cruising mode, TC cars can be very efficient too.  Still, having said, if one tends to push harder n drive like a chao ahbengdriver, the net FC savings can be insignificant.

 

By comparsion, my experience with a 2L NA car is it burnt half a tank(about 31 litres) of ron98 from SG to Sungei Besi toll, whereas a 3L TC car actually burnt more around 3/4 tank of ron98 over the same route, but of cos I reached the destination 30 to 40 mins quicker.  Partly, I attribute the high FC to on/off driving in Sports mode.  On another case, a recent trip to Melaka in a 2L TC burnt only 1/3 tank of petrol(about 33 litres) from SG on ron98.  So I think not all TC cars are the same, some more Fuel efficient whereas others are built just for power/speed.

 

The biggest issue I find is TC cars run very hot, so many hoses/parts fail or break quicker n maintenance needs to be more regular.  Engine oil is also boiled, often at 100 deg C over long periods if running  higher boost so needs to be replaced more frequently to protect the engine.  I change the oil every 4 months regardless.

 

Beng, this is very good advice. I am proud of what you typed.

Will praise you tomorrow as I run out of power.

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Shibadog

Shibadog

Turbocharged

 

By comparsion, my experience with a 2L NA car is it burnt half a tank(about 31 litres) of ron98 from SG to Sungei Besi toll, whereas a 3L TC car actually burnt more around 3/4 tank of ron98 over the same route, but of cos I reached the destination 30 to 40 mins quicker.  Partly, I attribute the high FC to on/off driving in Sports mode.  On another case, a recent trip to Melaka in a 2L TC burnt only 1/3 tank of petrol(about 33 litres) from SG on ron98.  So I think not all TC cars are the same, some more Fuel efficient whereas others are built just for power/speed.

 

The biggest issue I find is TC cars run very hot, so many hoses/parts fail or break quicker n maintenance needs to be more regular.  Engine oil is also boiled, often at 100 deg C over long periods if running  higher boost so needs to be replaced more frequently to protect the engine.  I change the oil every 4 months regardless.

 

the 2L tc subie in my avatar has rather poor fc in NSHY... when in a hurry, fc is 5+km/L. If pump full in JB, it can be near empty when at Ayer keroh (burnt abt 45L). A bit of a risk to aim to reach Seremban on one tank if rushing all the way fm JB. But it's probably due to the 4spd gearbox and aerodynamics of a brick.

 

my current 2L tc subie wagon can reach sungei besi without refuelling, even with the JDM short ratio gearbox  [laugh]

 

yup TC engines run hotter and also hv more rubber/silicon parts that are susceptible to heat. Not to mention wear in the turbo bearings n oil seal.

 

engine oil - I am still amazed how some manufacturers manage to recommend oil change at 10k or 15k for their TC cars. Mine is still at 5k/3mth oil changes.

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Baal

Baal

Supersonic

I guess a variety of reasons why the trend of TC-ing. 

 

The Pros:

 

- slightly better FC.

 

- more accessible torque.

 

- getting past emission standards.  The big squeeze followed by big bang results in a more complete combustion.

 

- In Sg, save road tax.

 

 

 

 

The cons:

 

- the hot running.

 

- need min 95 ron.

 

- more parts to take care off & maintain.

 

- more frequent maintenance required.

 

- Hot climate not ideal for TC pertrol.

 

 

 

Sure Win = Turbo Diesel  (bar special tax)

 

- significantly improved FC over pertrol NA.

 

- Easily accessed & brutal levels of torque relative to capacity.

 

- cheap diesel Vs exp petrol.

 

- Great for Asian climate.  Running hot is good for diesel engines.

 


 

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Sopskysalat

Sopskysalat

4th Gear

You must be driving about speed limit.

My 06 2L kia, filled to the brim in JB can do 14km/l. 4sp too.

But if i go above speed limit, i think i can still do one tank to ipoh with few litre of petrol left.

 

But your earlier subaru is old tech with high boost. so it will not be efficient. Coupled with high drag, it will hit your fc more.

 

 

the 2L tc subie in my avatar has rather poor fc in NSHY... when in a hurry, fc is 5+km/L. If pump full in JB, it can be near empty when at Ayer keroh (burnt abt 45L). A bit of a risk to aim to reach Seremban on one tank if rushing all the way fm JB. But it's probably due to the 4spd gearbox and aerodynamics of a brick.

 

my current 2L tc subie wagon can reach sungei besi without refuelling, even with the JDM short ratio gearbox  [laugh]

 

yup TC engines run hotter and also hv more rubber/silicon parts that are susceptible to heat. Not to mention wear in the turbo bearings n oil seal.

 

engine oil - I am still amazed how some manufacturers manage to recommend oil change at 10k or 15k for their TC cars. Mine is still at 5k/3mth oil changes.

 

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Ahbengdriver

Ahbengdriver

6th Gear
(edited)

the 2L tc subie in my avatar has rather poor fc in NSHY... when in a hurry, fc is 5+km/L. If pump full in JB, it can be near empty when at Ayer keroh (burnt abt 45L). A bit of a risk to aim to reach Seremban on one tank if rushing all the way fm JB. But it's probably due to the 4spd gearbox and aerodynamics of a brick.

 

my current 2L tc subie wagon can reach sungei besi without refuelling, even with the JDM short ratio gearbox  [laugh]

 

yup TC engines run hotter and also hv more rubber/silicon parts that are susceptible to heat. Not to mention wear in the turbo bearings n oil seal.

 

engine oil - I am still amazed how some manufacturers manage to recommend oil change at 10k or 15k for their TC cars. Mine is still at 5k/3mth oil changes.

Wow your car drinkss petrol like a buffalo.  I believe its due to the 4 gears setup. 

 

The 2L car I tested recently to Melaka(fully loaded with 5 adults) that burnt only 1/3 tank of fuel was driven at speeds varying on average from 130kmh to 180kmh but it wasn't like fast/slow all the time, mainly cruising along.  It is using a 8-speed gearbox.  We are know the higher the gear engaged, the better the FC. 

 

10 to 15k km oil change interval I believe can be applied in cooler Europe, not in Singapore. In Europe, only a few months is as hot as Singapore.

Edited by Ahbengdriver
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Shibadog

Shibadog

Turbocharged

You must be driving about speed limit.

My 06 2L kia, filled to the brim in JB can do 14km/l. 4sp too.

But if i go above speed limit, i think i can still do one tank to ipoh with few litre of petrol left.

 

But your earlier subaru is old tech with high boost. so it will not be efficient. Coupled with high drag, it will hit your fc more.

 

 

yup, The forester, if staying close to speed limit, gets abt 7-8km/L while the current wagon can get 10km/L.

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Shibadog

Shibadog

Turbocharged

Wow your car drinkss petrol like a buffalo.  I believe its due to the 4 gears setup. 

 

The 2L car I tested recently to Melaka(fully loaded with 5 adults) that burnt only 1/3 tank of fuel was driven at speeds varying on average from 130kmh to 180kmh but it wasn't like fast/slow all the time, mainly cruising along.  It is using a 8-speed gearbox.  We are know the higher the gear engaged, the better the FC. 

 

10 to 15k km oil change interval I believe can be applied in cooler Europe, not in Singapore. In Europe, only a few months is as hot as Singapore.

 

 

yup that's why it's hard to compare apples to apples when comparing FC for TC/SC vs NA cars.

Need to consider many other relevant factors.

 

that fc of 5+km/L is when "cruising" at 5k+ rpm. Can almost see the fuel needle moving as I drive [laugh]

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