Neutrino Supercharged March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 A new Bond is being issued in Singapore. Let's not start with the James Bond jokes. https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/bond/bond-info/factsheet.svdo;FSMAPPID=wqTF3FdKG6YkmxI0t8GWCCSl2k25du3El4lWB39_yrmJoeyM9Py7!1867248078?DCSext.dept=21&WT.mc_id=58861&issueCode=JK5852351 I like the rate but as I don't undestand bonds I won't be investing. As I understand it although the coupon rate is 5.3% annually the price of the bond can go down as well. So at the end of the investment period money can be lost. Is that correct? Or can anyone provide a simple short version of how a bond works. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little_prince Supersonic March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 Basically it's a loan to the business Bond return is inversely related to the interest rate Basically it's a loan to the business Bond return is inversely related to the interest rate 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadX Moderator March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 moved folder as some individuals have serious problems in right siting. that said, placing it in lite n ez, opens the pandora's box to James Bond jokes nuff said. The kinds of induhviduals tht need to be managed in forums Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanly 5th Gear March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 A new Bond is being issued in Singapore. Let's not start with the James Bond jokes. https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/bond/bond-info/factsheet.svdo;FSMAPPID=wqTF3FdKG6YkmxI0t8GWCCSl2k25du3El4lWB39_yrmJoeyM9Py7!1867248078?DCSext.dept=21&WT.mc_id=58861&issueCode=JK5852351 I like the rate but as I don't undestand bonds I won't be investing. As I understand it although the coupon rate is 5.3% annually the price of the bond can go down as well. So at the end of the investment period money can be lost. Is that correct? Or can anyone provide a simple short version of how a bond works. You're quite right to say that the price of bond will likely go down as it nears it's maturity date. However, at the end of the investment period (or at maturity), the face value of the bond will be return to you... so if you purchased the bond right at the start when it was issued(e.g. $1 per unit with coupon rate @ 5% & maturity of 5 yrs) & you purchased $1M. Every year you'll get 50k as interest & if you hold till maturity, you'll get back your $1M on top of the 250k of interest collected during these 5 yrs. Of course if the bond price goes up during the 5 years, you can sell off & gain capital appreciation... if the price goes down, just hold till it mature lor. Worst case scenario is the company bankrupt... You can refer to this page from fundsupermart for better explanation on how bond works: https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/bond/article/What%E2%80%99s-a-bond-10102 Except for those that open to small retail investors like the recent one appearing on the papers from Aspial (which i think is the one you referring to) where you can buy as low as few thousands $, most of the bonds would required min investment of $250k which most of us don't have the spare cash to lock for such a period of time.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kusje Supersonic March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 You're quite right to say that the price of bond will likely go down as it nears it's maturity date. However, at the end of the investment period (or at maturity), the face value of the bond will be return to you... so if you purchased the bond right at the start when it was issued(e.g. $1 per unit with coupon rate @ 5% & maturity of 5 yrs) & you purchased $1M. Every year you'll get 50k as interest & if you hold till maturity, you'll get back your $1M on top of the 250k of interest collected during these 5 yrs. Of course if the bond price goes up during the 5 years, you can sell off & gain capital appreciation... if the price goes down, just hold till it mature lor. Worst case scenario is the company bankrupt... You can refer to this page from fundsupermart for better explanation on how bond works: https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/bond/article/What%E2%80%99s-a-bond-10102 Except for those that open to small retail investors like the recent one appearing on the papers from Aspial (which i think is the one you referring to) where you can buy as low as few thousands $, most of the bonds would required min investment of $250k which most of us don't have the spare cash to lock for such a period of time.... Not go down la. More like head towards the par value ($1). But that also depends on whether or not the market thinks the company is going to default. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangoElite 6th Gear March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 do analyse the company BS and understand why the company cannot raise funds from regular debt or equity possible reasons are that they are already in huge debts with assets tied up, or their debt will be more costly than the bond's coupon, or the restrictive debentures from a debt funding next question is why the company cannot borrow from bank's at a rate lower than the coupon, which at 5.3% is not that difficult to obtain for a creditable business the risk is default or bankruptcy, like the recent case from Indonesia Trikomsel 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsl118 6th Gear March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 Didn't bother to fix the link but looking at the 5+% mentioned, this is referring to Aspial's second launch? Would avoid or consider the first launch as a better alternative if die die want to be vested in this corp's bonds. 4 years seem like a short period of time but plenty can happen to this company that is trying to diversify its business into real estate. If holding power can stretch beyond time horizon of 4 years, should consider discounted 'blue chips' that has a higher yield than 5+% (and sound fundamentals). Do your due diligence, good luck. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrino Supercharged March 30, 2016 Author Share March 30, 2016 If holding power can stretch beyond time horizon of 4 years, should consider discounted 'blue chips' that has a higher yield than 5+% (and sound fundamentals). Do your due diligence, good luck. I'd be interested if you can tell me of a few 'blue chips' with higher yield than 5.3% Just for my information and consideration. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttle2 Supersonic March 30, 2016 Share March 30, 2016 5++% with 5 yr maturity Retail tranche? Minimum $1k Smart issuer, cut the pie into very small pieces to lure all the small timers with small money. Aspial or the former leehwa is now also a property developer and a pawnshop. Its all about risk return perspective. Company is high debt and has quite a handful of property unsold. But the traditional jewellery business is ok and the pawnshop is ok. However economy is soft so there might be further impact. Nothing is perfect. If you can accept the name and receive 5% pa for lending money to them, then buy it. If i were to buy, i would take the earlier issue which matures in 2019 and still gives 5%pa ++ The catch? Thats the AI issue which requires a minimum size of $250k If i were the investment banker i will also go retail and let the folks oversubscribe this one. Upsize the deal to $150mil Then Use the proceeds to repay the ones maturing 2016 and 2017. Refinancing done until 2018. Whoopee. Porker, you say leh? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttle2 Supersonic March 31, 2016 Share March 31, 2016 5++% with 5 yr maturity Retail tranche? Minimum $1k Smart issuer, cut the pie into very small pieces to lure all the small timers with small money. Aspial or the former leehwa is now also a property developer and a pawnshop. Its all about risk return perspective. Company is high debt and has quite a handful of property unsold. But the traditional jewellery business is ok and the pawnshop is ok. However economy is soft so there might be further impact. Nothing is perfect. If you can accept the name and receive 5% pa for lending money to them, then buy it. If i were to buy, i would take the earlier issue which matures in 2019 and still gives 5%pa ++ The catch? Thats the AI issue which requires a minimum size of $250k If i were the investment banker i will also go retail and let the folks oversubscribe this one. Upsize the deal to $150mil Then Use the proceeds to repay the ones maturing 2016 and 2017. Refinancing done until 2018. Whoopee. Porker, you say leh? @porker Calling pager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porker Turbocharged March 31, 2016 Share March 31, 2016 5++% with 5 yr maturity Retail tranche? Minimum $1k Smart issuer, cut the pie into very small pieces to lure all the small timers with small money. Aspial or the former leehwa is now also a property developer and a pawnshop. Its all about risk return perspective. Company is high debt and has quite a handful of property unsold. But the traditional jewellery business is ok and the pawnshop is ok. However economy is soft so there might be further impact. Nothing is perfect. If you can accept the name and receive 5% pa for lending money to them, then buy it. If i were to buy, i would take the earlier issue which matures in 2019 and still gives 5%pa ++ The catch? Thats the AI issue which requires a minimum size of $250k If i were the investment banker i will also go retail and let the folks oversubscribe this one. Upsize the deal to $150mil Then Use the proceeds to repay the ones maturing 2016 and 2017. Refinancing done until 2018. Whoopee. Porker, you say leh? I'm not an expert leh but let me try my best. I won't touch Aspial's bond. The property unit World Class Land is quite a joke. I had the opportunity to peep into the workings of the company and it is as expected a company run on cronyism. The property unit, run by amateurs, masquerades as a high end wannabe developer. Take a look at the advertisements for the Australia 108 development and you will see what I mean. No high end developers market their high end products in that sort of amateurish "upgrader attention seeking" sort of way. The jewellery and Maxi cash businesses may be doing alright now but both are still very localised mass market retail businesses with not much potential for top line growth. I see this bond offering as a way of paring down debt more for it's property unit. I may be wrong so don't slam me. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porker Turbocharged March 31, 2016 Share March 31, 2016 (edited) And one more off tangent thing to add on Aspial. This company was started by the Koh family. If Koh Wee Meng were to issue bonds for the Fragrance Hotel business then I'd say please go ahead and buy. That business model has got to be one of the most brilliant thing ever to happen in Singapore. How the hell can you run a budget hotel but charge close to 5 star room rate per day? By leasing to horny people on a 2 hour basis. Occupancy rate probably close to 100% Can't expect run lion couples or hookers to f*ck in Gardens by the Bay right? Edited March 31, 2016 by Porker 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mersaylee Supersonic April 1, 2016 Share April 1, 2016 And one more off tangent thing to add on Aspial. This company was started by the Koh family. If Koh Wee Meng were to issue bonds for the Fragrance Hotel business then I'd say please go ahead and buy. That business model has got to be one of the most brilliant thing ever to happen in Singapore. How the hell can you run a budget hotel but charge close to 5 star room rate per day? By leasing to horny people on a 2 hour basis. Occupancy rate probably close to 100% Can't expect run lion couples or hookers to f*ck in Gardens by the Bay right? That depends. Some atas folks love elevated "bond-ing" session. Elite bro Enye may know better... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetrap 2nd Gear April 1, 2016 Share April 1, 2016 I'm not an expert leh but let me try my best. I won't touch Aspial's bond. The property unit World Class Land is quite a joke. I had the opportunity to peep into the workings of the company and it is as expected a company run on cronyism. The property unit, run by amateurs, masquerades as a high end wannabe developer. Take a look at the advertisements for the Australia 108 development and you will see what I mean. No high end developers market their high end products in that sort of amateurish "upgrader attention seeking" sort of way. The jewellery and Maxi cash businesses may be doing alright now but both are still very localised mass market retail businesses with not much potential for top line growth. I see this bond offering as a way of paring down debt more for it's property unit. I may be wrong so don't slam me. Good analysis. I will say that property is on the downward trends and will recover next year if govt ease up the laws on the ABSD. Btw, are you the porker whom I read before that imported his own BMW manual years back? :) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckduck Turbocharged April 1, 2016 Share April 1, 2016 genting got a retail perpetual also mah at 5%+ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throttle2 Supersonic April 1, 2016 Share April 1, 2016 genting got a retail perpetual also mah at 5%+ Perp? Genting? Mai lah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fast1 Supersonic April 1, 2016 Share April 1, 2016 (edited) moved folder as some individuals have serious problems in right siting. that said, placing it in lite n ez, opens the pandora's box to James Bond jokes nuff said. The kinds of induhviduals tht need to be managed in forums You can be pundek Bond. "The names Pandu. James Pandu." Unfortunately, you look much more like a pundek Oddjob. I'm not an expert leh but let me try my best. I know your sexpertise is in a w-hole-y different kind of BONDage. Edited April 1, 2016 by Turboflat4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kusje Supersonic April 1, 2016 Share April 1, 2016 Perp? Genting? Mai lah But people always say dun bet against casino leh. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In NowRelated Discussions
Related Discussions
$1b in cash and assets seized and frozen; 30 foreigners probed for money laundering and forgery
$1b in cash and assets seized and frozen; 30 foreigners probed for money laundering and forgery
Mother of all scams thread
Mother of all scams thread
Singaporean are unhappy and poor
Singaporean are unhappy and poor
Money does buy happiness but only up to $670k
Money does buy happiness but only up to $670k
Share your painful experience with your financial investment
Share your painful experience with your financial investment
3 Big Money Mistakes Singaporean In Their 30's
3 Big Money Mistakes Singaporean In Their 30's
Forklift operators in Spore charged for bribery!
Forklift operators in Spore charged for bribery!
Singapore salary guide 2023
Singapore salary guide 2023