New Honda Accord?

[Vinceng]

Amazing how the Hyundai Genesis resembles the Honda Accord .

 

Accord rear

 

 

Genesis rear

 

 

Genesis front

[Renegade777]

Made for Honda fan bois.

 

Old engine, ancient 5 speeder gearbox, boring looking exterior & interior, all of which other Japanese automakers are already moving forward. But still have many people buy one.

 

I am not a Honda fan boi. But would you want one that give you the latest technology with all the fanciful stuff but break down as and when and giving you all the inconvenience of owning it.

[fungyee77]

I am not a Honda fan boi. But would you want one that give you the latest technology with all the fanciful stuff but break down as and when and giving you all the inconvenience of owning it.

 

Fair point but false choice. 

 

Honda is a good choice but they have been falling behind the curve in design, engines and reliability (per the latest surveys/statistics from JD Power / Consumer Reports). 

 

Product wise, Honda is a top 3 player in very few of the major categories (ie strong players are perhaps Vezel in Compact SUV, Civic in Compact Sedan, and Odyssey in 7-seater MPV (#1 in my estimate)). 

 

Pricing wise, they aren't very competitive across the product range, except for Vezel. Which explains the drop in non-Vezel sales over the years. 

 

Accord, CRV are good entries in major categories, but are seriously showing their age against fantastic entries from the competition. 

 

Not bad, but I remember a time they were both a product and volume leader across major vehicle categories, and they are far from that today. 

Edited December 25, 2016 by Fungyee77

[Audi2016]

I am not a Honda fan boi. But would you want one that give you the latest technology with all the fanciful stuff but break down as and when and giving you all the inconvenience of owning it.

 

That's the problem with car buyers. One group want reliability so look for older tech. Another group wants newer tech so the risk tolerance for unreliability is slightly higher. Luckily certain Jap car brands are still catering to the former group lol 

[Lala81]

Yawn. Vezel and hrv selling like hotcakes in China. It's so popular that Honda sells the same car under 2 separate joint ventures.

In singapore this is under PI and Ad.in China this is deliberate strategy by Honda.

Accord still the no. 2 selling mid sized sedan in USA. Only behind camry cos camry dominates rental fleet sales.

Civic selling like hot cakes again in USA.

 

What is definite though is that Honda has dropped in reliability compared to Toyota Mazda, Subaru and a few others. They are rated around seventh or eighth.

[Thecarboy302]

Amazing how the Hyundai Genesis resembles the Honda Accord .

 

Accord rear

accord.jpg

 

 

Genesis rear

genesis.jpg

 

 

Genesis front

genesis front.jpg

This 1st gen Genesis sedan dates back to 2009 while current gen Accrod was launched somewhere around 2012 so who inspired who is quite clear.

[Stooky]

Amazing how the Hyundai Genesis resembles the Honda Accord .

 

Accord rear

accord.jpg

 

 

Genesis rear

genesis.jpg

 

 

Genesis front

genesis front.jpg

 

Honda copy Hyundai Genesis design? Lol

[Kangadrool]

Another all 5-star accolades!

 

Can't be bad.

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_reviews.php?CarCode=11331

 

[fungyee77]

Yawn. Vezel and hrv selling like hotcakes in China. It's so popular that Honda sells the same car under 2 separate joint ventures.

In singapore this is under PI and Ad.in China this is deliberate strategy by Honda.

Accord still the no. 2 selling mid sized sedan in USA. Only behind camry cos camry dominates rental fleet sales.

Civic selling like hot cakes again in USA.

 

What is definite though is that Honda has dropped in reliability compared to Toyota Mazda, Subaru and a few others. They are rated around seventh or eighth.

 

Objectively, I've always been a big Honda fan - I've viewed Honda as the BMW of Japan, with Toyota reliability. 

 

It still makes great cars - I think the Civic and the Odyssey are top in class, and Vezel top 3. But they have also been slipping in major categories.

 

And Kah Motors "we-are-the-best-take-it-or-leave-it" approach hasn't been helpful. 

 

Take the Accord, for example. Its a car that ticks every box - its comfortable, handles well, reliable, with best in class space and build quality, and with a sterling reputation (i.e. no one will say "You bought a Kia / Hyundai? Haha"). But on the flip side, its an unexciting and dated design, has the slowest powertrain in its class (so much for BMW of Japan), is priced way above its peers, features list does not match its peers, interior materials have more hard plastics than its peers. 

 

So if I were shopping for a mid-sized sedan, the Accord and the Camry would be top of mind at the onset. But if I do my research properly, there is a very high chance I'd go somewhere else i.e. 

- Accord is priced $5-10k higher than the Camry, Teana / $13k above Optima, Sonata / $17k above Mazda 6

- Slowest acceleration at 11.9s (similar to base Teana and Sonata)

- Most limited features list (better than base Mazda 6 but not Executive Mazda 6, which is $10k+ less)

 

In the US, the Accord is a best seller, as you pointed out. But also note that the US Accord has a much more powerful engine as its base engine, and is generally specs, features and price competitive with peers (ok Accord is slightly more expensive but in the context of $1k or so).  

 

So my beef is more with Kah Motors - instead of addressing the specs or pricing of their cars to make it competitive with peers, Kah Motors busies itself by getting people to post 5-star reviews on sgcarmart 

[Lala81]

Objectively, I've always been a big Honda fan - I've viewed Honda as the BMW of Japan, with Toyota reliability. 

 

It still makes great cars - I think the Civic and the Odyssey are top in class, and Vezel top 3. But they have also been slipping in major categories.

 

And Kah Motors "we-are-the-best-take-it-or-leave-it" approach hasn't been helpful. 

 

Take the Accord, for example. Its a car that ticks every box - its comfortable, handles well, reliable, with best in class space and build quality, and with a sterling reputation (i.e. no one will say "You bought a Kia / Hyundai? Haha"). But on the flip side, its an unexciting and dated design, has the slowest powertrain in its class (so much for BMW of Japan), is priced way above its peers, features list does not match its peers, interior materials have more hard plastics than its peers. 

 

So if I were shopping for a mid-sized sedan, the Accord and the Camry would be top of mind at the onset. But if I do my research properly, there is a very high chance I'd go somewhere else i.e. 

- Accord is priced $5-10k higher than the Camry, Teana / $13k above Optima, Sonata / $17k above Mazda 6

- Slowest acceleration at 11.9s (similar to base Teana and Sonata)

- Most limited features list (better than base Mazda 6 but not Executive Mazda 6, which is $10k+ less)

 

In the US, the Accord is a best seller, as you pointed out. But also note that the US Accord has a much more powerful engine as its base engine, and is generally specs, features and price competitive with peers (ok Accord is slightly more expensive but in the context of $1k or so).  

 

So my beef is more with Kah Motors - instead of addressing the specs or pricing of their cars to make it competitive with peers, Kah Motors busies itself by getting people to post 5-star reviews on sgcarmart 

 

When i bought in jan 2015. Depre for a 2.0 Accord (pre-FL) vs a 2.5L camry (pre-FL) is 14.4k vs 13.7k. I compare these 2 cars based on OMV, both are about 28k. But Toyota and other dealers offered me only 35k for my altis vs KM's 41k. So the margin was already reduced.

I calculated the dealer's margin, 17k+ for KM vs say 13-14k for Tan chong or BM.

The toyota may had more power just like the 2.5L mz6 but undoubtedly, the freaking old 5AT in the accord is still better than the other 2 gearboxes.

 

But I was willing to pay the difference. 

 

I agree KM's marketing tactics aren't widely accepted in SG and that honda cars here in SG sometimes are poor value compared to the rest.

It definitely won't win any drag races as well as mentioned by the pickup.

There are also more and more choices now.

 

i dont think the accord has much hard touch plastics. None that i notice really.

The layout is sibei ah pek and simple (really like for old men), even the speedometer numbers are so big LOL. But i don't find any discernable lack of quality vs all its competitors.

Though the Contis and Mazda are lot more stylish.

 

 

I'm not defending the distributor or the brand.

The fact is that by the numbers on the roads, vezel, Fit/Jazz, shuttle etc they all sell well here. And the Accord and CRV and Civic sells well in USA. Heck even the Ridgeline has been a surprise seller in US.

So u can see they don't really need to change much.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by Lala81

[Lala81]

I've noticed that not many new teanas, camrys or even passats etc on the road.

 

Generally, it's clear that the family SUVs like Harriers are taking over the midsized sedan category. 

 

So the japanese midsized sedans category move much more slowly now compared to before.

[fungyee77]

@ Lala81

 

Margin of $17+ for KM is a very decent deal for you. Good choice.

[Lala81]

@ Lala81

 

Margin of $17+ for KM is a very decent deal for you. Good choice.

 

err my COE was 75k back then lah. still lose out LOL 

[Vratenza]

1) the latest technology with all the fanciful stuff but 2) break down as and when and giving you all the inconvenience of owning it.

 

These 2 are not mutually exclusive.... definitely have competitors in the market offering a meaningful compromise between the 2.

 

I am not a Honda fan boi. But would you want one that give you the latest technology with all the fanciful stuff but break down as and when and giving you all the inconvenience of owning it.

 

[Vratenza]

I am beginning to suspect that all the KM staff/SEs are given homework to submit a review by the end of the year.

 

No 5 star reviews means no bonus.

 

 

Another all 5-star accolades!

 

Can't be bad.

 

http://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_reviews.php?CarCode=11331

 

 

[Lala81]

1) the latest technology with all the fanciful stuff but 2) break down as and when and giving you all the inconvenience of owning it.

 

These 2 are not mutually exclusive.... definitely have competitors in the market offering a meaningful compromise between the 2.

 

 

Audi is no.3 on JDPower initial reliability survey. So that bodes well. But Merc and BMW are strictly in the middle of the pack.

 

Anyway in USA, most manufacturers offer almost all the basic latest technology. HUD, collision avoidance/lane keeping assist, 360 degree camera etc.

Just how much the trim/options cost. Honda sensing is only a 1.5k-2k option in USA/canada.

[Vratenza]

in USA, their market is such that there is no standard model being sold throughout the country. Every car of the same model in the parking lot is different in their options and equipment.

 

A 1-2K USD option when it comes to Singapore, after all the LTA import taxation (goes towards OMV), it can easily balloon to SGD8-10K addition to the car price.

 

Give you example from mercedes, in USA, their panoramic roof is a USD800+ option. Guess how much is the panoramic roof option for CnC? SGD 6K. No matter how I do currency conversion also cannot arrive at that figure

 

There lies in the complain most commonly heard that KM's models are under-specced, dated etc. KM decides to bring in the models with equipment level that they think their customer base will most likely want and pay for.

If people keep snapping up what they bring in, they will continue to bring in similarly specced models in the future.

Bring in better specced models? That will depend on whether their loyal fans are willing to pay for them and if they are willing to lower their margin.

 

 

 

 

Audi is no.3 on JDPower initial reliability survey. So that bodes well. But Merc and BMW are strictly in the middle of the pack.

 

Anyway in USA, most manufacturers offer almost all the basic latest technology. HUD, collision avoidance/lane keeping assist, 360 degree camera etc.

Just how much the trim/options cost. Honda sensing is only a 1.5k-2k option in USA/canada.

 

[Lala81]

in USA, their market is such that there is no standard model being sold throughout the country. Every car of the same model in the parking lot is different in their options and equipment.

 

A 1-2K USD option when it comes to Singapore, after all the LTA import taxation (goes towards OMV), it can easily balloon to SGD8-10K addition to the car price.

 

Give you example from mercedes, in USA, their panoramic roof is a USD800+ option. Guess how much is the panoramic roof option for CnC? SGD 6K. No matter how I do currency conversion also cannot arrive at that figure

 

There lies in the complain most commonly heard that KM's models are under-specced, dated etc. KM decides to bring in the models with equipment level that they think their customer base will most likely want and pay for.

If people keep snapping up what they bring in, they will continue to bring in similarly specced models in the future.

Bring in better specced models? That will depend on whether their loyal fans are willing to pay for them and if they are willing to lower their margin.

 

yup, agreed.

KM are still happy with their sales and customer base lol...

 

I'm not too bothered actually. Nowadays so many options. Koreans also caught up liao. Just pick the car that rocks your boat. 

 

I'm happy with my car but i can see why people don't find it appealing.

The specs are reasonable compared to the other Japanese. Only the Passat knocks it out of the ballpark based on specs from when i bought. But i feel my car is roomier in the rear seats than the passat.