The Oxley Road continuing Saga

[Still2016]

I'm not going to belabour this sorry saga, because my opinion is not going to change anything substantive. But I wanted to make a post to bemoan the loss of what could have been.

 

Lee Hsien Loong, for all his other failings, has an absolutely first rate mathematical mind. He topped his Cambridge tripos class, and the runner-up was miles behind according to Prof Bollobas (a very eminent mathematician who taught LHL and his cohort). The runner-up himself became a world class mathematician, but Prof Bollobas himself said that they all knew who was the better mathematician by far. The professor tried to reason with LKY to persuade him of his eldest son's immense mathematical gift. But LKY stayed resolute in bringing LHL back from academia for a political career. It is possible LKY didn't recognise just how good LHL was at Math, people outside the field often can't really tell just how gifted someone is at the highest levels.

 

I don't know what LHL thinks about this, but someone who truly loves mathematics would really miss the work and always dream about "what might have been". LHL might even have been a Fields Medal winner if he had stayed in the field.

 

We all know Asian parents often set rigid expectations of their offspring, especially the eldest male. But sometimes these expectations are counter-productive. A filial son may find himself frustrated by unfulfilled potential.

 

Perhaps all this could've been avoided if LHL had fulfilled (what I think might have been) his real destiny. And if he had become a mathematician, I'm sure the world would have been the richer for it, with (perhaps) another major unsolved problem being toppled. I love math, and I hate to see great talent wasted. The younger brother is, no doubt, very bright, but I still think he is a lesser light (intellectually speaking) than LHL. Given his success in industry (and anecdotes of his more rugged nature), perhaps he might have been a better pick to enter politics. Or perhaps they should have done away with the notion of elevating a son to the seat of ultimate power - I'm sure someone else in the party could've continued helming the nation. I don't think GCT was exactly averse to the idea of continuing.

 

I have no idea what LHL himself thinks about how his life has turned out, and whether he too feels this way. Maybe he does, we do know that (at least in the not-too-distant past), he has amused himself by programming in C/C++ (as evidenced by his recently released Sudoku solver), so that shows that he still misses the intellectual stimulation of a math/computing related field. But speaking for myself, I feel that there have been too many missed opportunities and the whole thing has been such a waste.

1. Sometimes in life, circumstances does dictates where you go and what you fo.

 

2. If you are ruled by your head and not by your hard, that is, being practical.

 

3. We will never know how history would be like if LKY or LHL pursue their dreams. Whatever it is, Singapore did not fair too badly, overall against our neighbours or some Western countries, we did produce a Global Statesman even the biggest power in the world had to pay respect.

 

4. We should not live in the past but everybody got to get involved to make Singapore what we want her to be. We should not give up because we got resources though scattered and still some good men around.

 

5. I am a Singaporean, but I am not Mr LKY's son, that is, a difference, that is why I must continue to fight to make Singapore our home.

[Playtime]

I'm not going to belabour this sorry saga, because my opinion is not going to change anything substantive. But I wanted to make a post to bemoan the loss of what could have been.

 

Lee Hsien Loong, for all his other failings, has an absolutely first rate mathematical mind. He topped his Cambridge tripos class, and the runner-up was miles behind according to Prof Bollobas (a very eminent mathematician who taught LHL and his cohort). The runner-up himself became a world class mathematician, but Prof Bollobas himself said that they all knew who was the better mathematician by far. The professor tried to reason with LKY to persuade him of his eldest son's immense mathematical gift. But LKY stayed resolute in bringing LHL back from academia for a political career. It is possible LKY didn't recognise just how good LHL was at Math, people outside the field often can't really tell just how gifted someone is at the highest levels.

 

I don't know what LHL thinks about this, but someone who truly loves mathematics would really miss the work and always dream about "what might have been". LHL might even have been a Fields Medal winner if he had stayed in the field.

 

We all know Asian parents often set rigid expectations of their offspring, especially the eldest male. But sometimes these expectations are counter-productive. A filial son may find himself frustrated by unfulfilled potential.

 

Perhaps all this could've been avoided if LHL had fulfilled (what I think might have been) his real destiny. And if he had become a mathematician, I'm sure the world would have been the richer for it, with (perhaps) another major unsolved problem being toppled. I love math, and I hate to see great talent wasted. The younger brother is, no doubt, very bright, but I still think he is a lesser light (intellectually speaking) than LHL. Given his success in industry (and anecdotes of his more rugged nature), perhaps he might have been a better pick to enter politics. Or perhaps they should have done away with the notion of elevating a son to the seat of ultimate power - I'm sure someone else in the party could've continued helming the nation. I don't think GCT was exactly averse to the idea of continuing.

 

I have no idea what LHL himself thinks about how his life has turned out, and whether he too feels this way. Maybe he does, we do know that (at least in the not-too-distant past), he has amused himself by programming in C/C++ (as evidenced by his recently released Sudoku solver), so that shows that he still misses the intellectual stimulation of a math/computing related field. But speaking for myself, I feel that there have been too many missed opportunities and the whole thing has been such a waste.

People who are mathematical genius seem to often turn out socially inept.

Maybe that's the problem... Rainman syndrome, I always tot he looked "wrong" and often uttered outrageous things.

 

If people can question lkys mental health, they should also look into lhl psyche.

[Playtime]

Fact or fiction, no one knows.

 

A lot of interesting read about the Lee family here. Could be fact, could be fiction.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/current-affairs-lounge-17/inside-scoop-lee-family-associates-%96-fact-fiction-5003701.html

Actually there are still many questions unanswered.

I just read the papers today. While there are evidences that LKY may have agreed to alternative arrangements for the house other than demolishing the house, with the official documents dated in 2011, but what happens during 2011 to 2015 when he passed away?

4 years period, he could have changed his mind again?

The ONLY thing that matters is lky final decision.

It's HIS will.

HIS house to give.

Not lhl lhy or lwl.

And definitely not those unrelated MPs.

He can his grandson to write his will on a napkin with a crayon, it doesn't change his stated intentions and validity.

 

All the minnow ministers are just grabbing at straws to justify their wanted aims.

Rather... Think the word is dishonourable.

[1fast1]

The ONLY thing that matters is lky final decision.

It's HIS will.

HIS house to give.

Not lhl lhy or lwl.

And definitely not those unrelated MPs.

He can his grandson to write his will on a napkin with a crayon, it doesn't change his stated intentions and validity.

 

All the minnow ministers are just grabbing at straws to justify their wanted aims.

Rather... Think the word is dishonourable.

 

I don't know that it's the *only* thing that matters.

 

The government has never hesitated to seize (or buy at a pittance) land belonging to "ordinary" citizens. The "public good" justifies this.

 

LKY, despite all his greatness, is still not greater than Singapore.

 

So, if precedent is followed, the government is entitled to do as it pleases with that property, regardless of LKY's will as a private citizen disposing of his assets.

 

The germane questions here pertain to allegations of abuse of process by certain people and the insistence on making LHY buy out LHL's share at a 50% markup.

 

The authority of the gahmen to do whatever it wants with that property has never been in question. If we question it, then we are elevating LKY beyond the status of an ordinary citizen, which detracts from his supposed purpose in not wanting that property to be kept as a monument to him in the first place.

 

Another more abstract question to ask is: we know Singapore is greater than LKY the man. But what exactly is Singapore? Is it the people or is it the government? Claims they are supposed to be the same in a democracy are not really applicable in Singapore, that should be self-evident. But, as LKY is definitely a very important public figure, should this be a nationwide referendum rather than something decided just by the government? Would that serve democracy better? It's not like we don't have an easy opportunity - just add that question to the Presidential Election polling.

 

To me, those are the more important things to address. We shouldn't assume that LKY's will is sacrosanct, because it isn't.

[Joseph22]

I don't know that it's the *only* thing that matters.

 

The government has never hesitated to seize (or buy at a pittance) land belonging to "ordinary" citizens. The "public good" justifies this.

 

LKY, despite all his greatness, is still not greater than Singapore.

 

So, if precedent is followed, the government is entitled to do as it pleases with that property, regardless of LKY's will as a private citizen disposing of his assets.

 

The germane questions here pertain to allegations of abuse of process by certain people and the insistence on making LHY buy out LHL's share at a 50% markup.

 

The authority of the gahmen to do whatever it wants with that property has never been in question. If we question it, then we are elevating LKY beyond the status of an ordinary citizen, which detracts from his supposed purpose in not wanting that property to be kept as a monument to him in the first place.

 

Another more abstract question to ask is: we know Singapore is greater than LKY the man. But what exactly is Singapore? Is it the people or is it the government? Claims they are supposed to be the same in a democracy are not really applicable in Singapore, that should be self-evident. But, as LKY is definitely a very important public figure, should this be a nationwide referendum rather than something decided just by the government? Would that serve democracy better? It's not like we don't have an easy opportunity - just add that question to the Presidential Election polling.

 

To me, those are the more important things to address. We shouldn't assume that LKY's will is sacrosanct, because it isn't.

Best comment In this thread or many other...

 

Singaporean need to wake up.

 

LkY make Singapore what it is definitely..

But a dead man will should never be bigger then the state.

 

The only good I see from this saga is.. maybe finally the Lee will hopefully no longer have a claim to the throne for 3 generation straight.

Which is better for the country.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Joseph22

[Playtime]

I don't know that it's the *only* thing that matters.

 

The government has never hesitated to seize (or buy at a pittance) land belonging to "ordinary" citizens. The "public good" justifies this.

 

LKY, despite all his greatness, is still not greater than Singapore.

 

So, if precedent is followed, the government is entitled to do as it pleases with that property, regardless of LKY's will as a private citizen disposing of his assets.

 

The germane questions here pertain to allegations of abuse of process by certain people and the insistence on making LHY buy out LHL's share at a 50% markup.

 

The authority of the gahmen to do whatever it wants with that property has never been in question. If we question it, then we are elevating LKY beyond the status of an ordinary citizen, which detracts from his supposed purpose in not wanting that property to be kept as a monument to him in the first place.

 

Another more abstract question to ask is: we know Singapore is greater than LKY the man. But what exactly is Singapore? Is it the people or is it the government? Claims they are supposed to be the same in a democracy are not really applicable in Singapore, that should be self-evident. But, as LKY is definitely a very important public figure, should this be a nationwide referendum rather than something decided just by the government? Would that serve democracy better? It's not like we don't have an easy opportunity - just add that question to the Presidential Election polling.

 

To me, those are the more important things to address. We shouldn't assume that LKY's will is sacrosanct, because it isn't.

Oh i agree the state in the end can do what it wants. Just be transparent.

 

LKY will is not sacrosanct (as neither are ours) as far as the state is concerned.

But some parties are now unnecessarily playing with words about the will and intention of lky. Thats just "sophistry" - new word learnt..

The issue of the personal intention of the will, is beyond question. its clear.

The issue of govt "due process" and "conflict of interest" is now very dirtied by players who seem to make own rules along the way... not that it wasnt always that way in the past.

 

But then... at least to lhy lwl (and i suspect many more citizens than the govt dare ask) , this is just as much about the character and conduct of their brother.

And its so uncomfortable and the consequences so grave, people cant handle it.

[Duckduck]

Perhaps all this could've been avoided if LHL had fulfilled (what I think might have been) his real destiny. And if he had become a mathematician,

 

the real world is that most of the time, the right person for the job usually never gets the job coz of politics, relationships etc which are more decisive when choosing the right man for the job.

 

lky was the right man for the job which is very rare, so lets not expect sunday mornings everyday by hoping all our leaders will be as great as lky.

 

On a relative basis, pinky is much better than jibby or joky or duterte etc etc

 

watever happened pinky was totally expected as hes not a natural politician but a natural math whiz, rightly as u pointed out. 

 

In fact alot of man on the street including me n u can be better politicians, but my first sentence above applies.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Duckduck

[Turboguy]

to comment soooooooo much.

 

Let's say next week is GE2017

 

ask yourself truthfully

 

do you think singaporeans will cast more votes to the WP or SDP etc etc opposition parties, and ditch PAP?

 

oh come on..

 

singaporeans are kiasu kiasi of changes

 

SO....anyone here going to say;

 

opposition parties weak leh, cmi blar blar blar.

 

srsly LOL,right? and in the end empowerment still goes to PAP

[Duckduck]

to comment soooooooo much.

 

Let's say next week is GE2017

 

ask yourself truthfully

 

do you think singaporeans will cast more votes to the WP or SDP etc etc opposition parties, and ditch PAP?

 

oh come on..

 

singaporeans are kiasu kiasi of changes

 

SO....anyone here going to say;

 

opposition parties weak leh, cmi blar blar blar.

 

srsly LOL,right? and in the end empowerment still goes to PAP

 

if there was an lky standard oppo leader, wont b surprised he gets more votes than miw. right now nobody can match miw standard yet.

 

CSM was supposed 2 b that guy, but not sure whether he has the drive for next level or just happily collecting $15,000 p mth salary like every other backbencher

[Still2016]

I don't know that it's the *only* thing that matters.

 

The government has never hesitated to seize (or buy at a pittance) land belonging to "ordinary" citizens. The "public good" justifies this.

 

LKY, despite all his greatness, is still not greater than Singapore.

 

So, if precedent is followed, the government is entitled to do as it pleases with that property, regardless of LKY's will as a private citizen disposing of his assets.

 

The germane questions here pertain to allegations of abuse of process by certain people and the insistence on making LHY buy out LHL's share at a 50% markup.

 

The authority of the gahmen to do whatever it wants with that property has never been in question. If we question it, then we are elevating LKY beyond the status of an ordinary citizen, which detracts from his supposed purpose in not wanting that property to be kept as a monument to him in the first place.

 

Another more abstract question to ask is: we know Singapore is greater than LKY the man. But what exactly is Singapore? Is it the people or is it the government? Claims they are supposed to be the same in a democracy are not really applicable in Singapore, that should be self-evident. But, as LKY is definitely a very important public figure, should this be a nationwide referendum rather than something decided just by the government? Would that serve democracy better? It's not like we don't have an easy opportunity - just add that question to the Presidential Election polling.

 

To me, those are the more important things to address. We shouldn't assume that LKY's will is sacrosanct, because it isn't.

 

 

True. But you forget that we humans are designed that way, that is, we need to hero worship, cult following etc.

 

That is the reason why we have Warren Buffett followers, Hilter followers, Jesus followers Undertaker followers, KTV Staff69 worshippers, Propertyguru Merc worshipper, Table-wiper followers, including LKY followers.

 

A functioning society is more complex than just black and white, heck, even there is grey within the grey.

[Showster]

True. But you forget that we humans are designed that way, that is, we need to hero worship, cult following etc.

 

That is the reason why we have Warren Buffett followers, Hilter followers, Jesus followers Undertaker followers, KTV Staff69 worshippers, Propertyguru Merc worshipper, Table-wiper followers, including LKY followers.

 

A functioning society is more complex than just black and white, heck, even there is grey within the grey.

I am a Still2016 follower, even though it is now 2017.

[Freeder]

Nice one

[1fast1]

True. But you forget that we humans are designed that way, that is, we need to hero worship, cult following etc.

 

That is the reason why we have Warren Buffett followers, Hilter followers, Jesus followers Undertaker followers, KTV Staff69 worshippers, Propertyguru Merc worshipper, Table-wiper followers, including LKY followers.

 

A functioning society is more complex than just black and white, heck, even there is grey within the grey.

Can't praise you but I agree. This is why I'm against cults of personality.

Oh i agree the state in the end can do what it wants. Just be transparent.

 

LKY will is not sacrosanct (as neither are ours) as far as the state is concerned.

But some parties are now unnecessarily playing with words about the will and intention of lky. Thats just "sophistry" - new word learnt..

The issue of the personal intention of the will, is beyond question. its clear.

The issue of govt "due process" and "conflict of interest" is now very dirtied by players who seem to make own rules along the way... not that it wasnt always that way in the past.

 

But then... at least to lhy lwl (and i suspect many more citizens than the govt dare ask) , this is just as much about the character and conduct of their brother.

And its so uncomfortable and the consequences so grave, people cant handle it.

I agree with your comments here.

[Beregond]

Fact or fiction, no one knows.

 

A lot of interesting read about the Lee family here. Could be fact, could be fiction.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/current-affairs-lounge-17/inside-scoop-lee-family-associates-%96-fact-fiction-5003701.html

Actually there are still many questions unanswered.

I just read the papers today. While there are evidences that LKY may have agreed to alternative arrangements for the house other than demolishing the house, with the official documents dated in 2011, but what happens during 2011 to 2015 when he passed away?

4 years period, he could have changed his mind again?

The best post of this thread.

[Vratenza]

 

True. But you forget that we humans are designed that way, that is, we need to hero worship, cult following etc.

That is the reason why we have Warren Buffett followers, Hilter followers, Jesus followers Undertaker followers, KTV Staff69 worshippers, Propertyguru Merc worshipper, Table-wiper followers, including LKY followers.

A functioning society is more complex than just black and white, heck, even there is grey within the grey.

 

[DACH]

The best post of this thread.

Read page 8 of the thread.

There are full details of the "slapping" incident.

[Freeder]

If LHL don't sue, creditability of PAP & PM will be tarnished. That's the ethos of PAP hor.

Layman ethos of PAP : ownsself masterbed ownself song...

[Yeshe]

Actually pm lee also got fault. Things cannot be force if one is not willing to give it on his heart.

 

When one party not willing and still want to force it to happen and see that's the result.

 

If pm lee would to do soul searching, he would have realized he is at wrong.

 

Don't know what teams he come to with lhy and lwl that now they decide to stop posting on social media. Maybe he had come to senses and willing to give in already.

 

if someone fails to manage his own family matters, how u expect him to run the country? [rolleyes]