How much Mileage Adjustment will a dealer adjust?

[Watwheels]

The court is not doing anyone a favour by ordering the dealer to buy back the car. I mean there will be other victims falling prey to buying that car from the same dealer. The courts will be very busy dealing with the same car and same old dealer. It's just a quick fix verdict that doesnt solve anything imo.

If the authorities cared they would have regulated the used car industry long ago and not let ppl deal with the ugly dealers on their own. Some things just wont change.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Watwheels

[Naimed]

3 hours ago, Watwheels said:

The court is not doing anyone a favour by ordering the dealer to buy back the car. I mean there will be other victims falling prey to buying that car from the same dealer. The courts will be very busy dealing with the same car and same old dealer. It's just a quick fix verdict that doesnt solve anything imo.

If the authorities cared they would have regulated the used car industry long ago and not let ppl deal with the ugly dealers on their own. Some things just wont change.

Actually not difficult for the authorities to regulate this. They already have a platform - the annual or bi-annual inspection!

If they start to take down the mileage of all vehicles (bikes, cars, lorries, trucks...etc) during each inspection, they would have very solid references down the road. When people want to sell or buy vehicles, this information is readily available on the log card or vehicle details. Of course there will be some special cases with mismatch mileage but that is for them to work out with authorities but the best thing is, buyers can turn away from such deal instantly. 

[Toeknee_33]

3 hours ago, Naimed said:

Actually not difficult for the authorities to regulate this. They already have a platform - the annual or bi-annual inspection!

If they start to take down the mileage of all vehicles (bikes, cars, lorries, trucks...etc) during each inspection, they would have very solid references down the road. When people want to sell or buy vehicles, this information is readily available on the log card or vehicle details. Of course there will be some special cases with mismatch mileage but that is for them to work out with authorities but the best thing is, buyers can turn away from such deal instantly. 

Then it might be the turn of car owners to turn back the clock, and bring the wheels of time to a stop 🎵

[Gearshift101]

I have been eyeing for a particular make, model, age of used car to buy. In this case it is a 2013 Mercedes C180 7G-tronic.  As such, I am quite familiar with the available used cars in the market that fit my criteria having checked the advertisements on a regular basis. At least twice a week, sometimes more often. There are just a couple of handful available at any 1 time.  A few weeks ago, I saw one that was quite reasonably priced and contacted the dealer to ask about the mileage since the information was not stated in the advertisement. The dealer texted back to say over 180,000 km and so I was not so keen anymore. Last week, I noticed that the the advertisement was taken off and labelled as sold. The next day, the car appeared again, advertised now by another dealer. Who knows if this is another company owned by the same bosses or not. This time, the same car the mileage was stated as less than half of the previous mileage! They adjusted it down by more than 50% to less than 90,000 km and then increased the asking price by about extra $4,000 to $5,000! I recognised the pictures, same registration date, COE, ARF info, etc.

The car dealers are just waiting for some sucker who did not do their homework and knows little about used cars to fall into their scheming, cheating trap. As long as this odometer tampering is not against the law with little/no penalties, we as consumers/buyers will be at the mercy of unscrupulous traders. It is ridiculous that in Singapore, which is known to be the costliest country in the world to own a car due to the additional taxes of ARF, COE, etc. that the authorities do not do anything to protect the consumer. I wonder is it because there is no revenue to LTA when we are buying a used vehicle? All the money has been already collected when the new car is bought. LTA has record or can have access to record of odometer readings when the car is sent for the mandatory checks by VICOM or STA. Why not make it available to the consumers so that it is fair and transparent? Why not make odometer tampering a serious punishable offence, when what is at stake is so high:  quite a substantial amount of money as sell as possible safety compromises to unknowing buyers (and their families/passengers) of used cars. The authorities care about the condition of our vehicles on the road and that is why we have to send the car for inspections and rectify any problems, but do not care if the "real" usage or age is tampered with.

Until something useful is done, all buyers should take extra care not to be cheated or worse, fooled into buying something which they thought is less used and therefore neglect to change essential parts.

[Mrlancergtx]

Used dealers (if the situation allows them) would wind down the odometer to even zero or pre-delivery level mileage.

Given that such numbers would be a dead giveaway, they would resort to adjusting to anything that they think will fetch them a sale, and most importantly an exorbitant price.

The question by the thread starter is akin asking a cold blooded physco murderer what would it take for him to stop doing the murders...in fact nothing will unless he is caught and jailed.

The unscrupulous practice of the dealers will only stop when the authorities act upon it ....

 

[Vinceng]

1 hour ago, Gearshift101 said:

I have been eyeing for a particular make, model, age of used car to buy. In this case it is a 2013 Mercedes C180 7G-tronic.  As such, I am quite familiar with the available used cars in the market that fit my criteria having checked the advertisements on a regular basis. At least twice a week, sometimes more often. There are just a couple of handful available at any 1 time.  A few weeks ago, I saw one that was quite reasonably priced and contacted the dealer to ask about the mileage since the information was not stated in the advertisement. The dealer texted back to say over 180,000 km and so I was not so keen anymore. Last week, I noticed that the the advertisement was taken off and labelled as sold. The next day, the car appeared again, advertised now by another dealer. Who knows if this is another company owned by the same bosses or not. This time, the same car the mileage was stated as less than half of the previous mileage! They adjusted it down by more than 50% to less than 90,000 km and then increased the asking price by about extra $4,000 to $5,000! I recognised the pictures, same registration date, COE, ARF info, etc.

The car dealers are just waiting for some sucker who did not do their homework and knows little about used cars to fall into their scheming, cheating trap. As long as this odometer tampering is not against the law with little/no penalties, we as consumers/buyers will be at the mercy of unscrupulous traders. It is ridiculous that in Singapore, which is known to be the costliest country in the world to own a car due to the additional taxes of ARF, COE, etc. that the authorities do not do anything to protect the consumer. I wonder is it because there is no revenue to LTA when we are buying a used vehicle? All the money has been already collected when the new car is bought. LTA has record or can have access to record of odometer readings when the car is sent for the mandatory checks by VICOM or STA. Why not make it available to the consumers so that it is fair and transparent? Why not make odometer tampering a serious punishable offence, when what is at stake is so high:  quite a substantial amount of money as sell as possible safety compromises to unknowing buyers (and their families/passengers) of used cars. The authorities care about the condition of our vehicles on the road and that is why we have to send the car for inspections and rectify any problems, but do not care if the "real" usage or age is tampered with.

Until something useful is done, all buyers should take extra care not to be cheated or worse, fooled into buying something which they thought is less used and therefore neglect to change essential parts.

Based on the content in your post, I shortlist it to this - https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=860806&DL=3512

[Gearshift101]

4 hours ago, Vinceng said:

Based on the content in your post, I shortlist it to this - https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=860806&DL=3512

You are a good investigator 👍 see how the pics compare to this...   https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=853382&DL=3271 

makes one wonder how often this happens, since people usually just look at the ads ONLY when they are searching to buy. 

[Vinceng]

7 minutes ago, Gearshift101 said:

You are a good investigator 👍 see how the pics compare to this...   https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=853382&DL=3271 

makes one wonder how often this happens, since people usually just look at the ads ONLY when they are searching to buy. 

The seats and steering wheel have been rewrapped.

Adjusting of mileage can be life threatening, if the new owner is deceived and fails to replace the necessary wear and tear parts.

We need a few cases of fatal accidents due to adjusted mileage & some hoo ha on social media before the authorities will take action.

 

[Toeknee_33]

3 hours ago, Vinceng said:

The seats and steering wheel have been rewrapped.

Adjusting of mileage can be life threatening, if the new owner is deceived and fails to replace the necessary wear and tear parts.

We need a few cases of fatal accidents due to adjusted mileage & some hoo ha on social media before the authorities will take action.

 

Yes, the condition of the seats, roof lining, steering and pedals often give a good indication of the mileage. Time to ask questions if they look older then the stated mileage or have been re-wrapped.

 

[sake]

9 hours ago, Vinceng said:

Based on the content in your post, I shortlist it to this - https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=860806&DL=3512

Ad says "C&C Maintained With Service Records."

Shd be able to get dealer to show the records for verification, no?

 

[Vinceng]

On 10/14/2019 at 11:03 PM, sake said:

Ad says "C&C Maintained With Service Records."

Shd be able to get dealer to show the records for verification, no?

 

Mercedes C180 with 180,000km mileage tweaked to 84,000km - https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=860806&DL=3512

 

Source:

 

In this instance where this C180 had its mileage tweaked from 180,000km to 84,000km, and also for private used cars converted to Z10 Private Hire Cars before being sold in the resale market , there's a trick in the trade.

The first owner may send it to the authorised distributor to service, sells it with a genuine 30,000 km mileage at its 3rd year.

The 2nd owner does not send it for servicing at the distributor, and may have pushed the mileage to 200,000km on it's 5th year, in the case of  a private hire car.

The dealer will  give the car a new coat of paint, the  interior a spruce up with new leather seats and steering leather wrap,  tweak the mileage to perhaps 60,000km, and send it back to the dealer to service at its 5th year (to place a record with distributor), and then advertise as 5 year old car, 2 owners only, 60,000km "genuine" mileage, serviced at agent. Would the buyer suspect anything?

This is very common practise nowadays with so many private hire cars in the resale market.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Vinceng

[Gearshift101]

On 10/16/2019 at 1:54 PM, Vinceng said:

Mercedes C180 with 180,000km mileage tweaked to 84,000km - https://www.sgcarmart.com/used_cars/info.php?ID=860806&DL=3512

 

Source:

 

In this instance where this C180 had its mileage tweaked from 180,000km to 84,000km, and also for private used cars converted to Z10 Private Hire Cars before being sold in the resale market , there's a trick in the trade.

The first owner may send it to the authorised distributor to service, sells it with a genuine 30,000 km mileage at its 3rd year.

The 2nd owner does not send it for servicing at the distributor, and may have pushed the mileage to 200,000km on it's 5th year, in the case of  a private hire car.

The dealer will  give the car a new coat of paint, the  interior a spruce up with new leather seats and steering leather wrap,  tweak the mileage to perhaps 60,000km, and send it back to the dealer to service at its 5th year (to place a record with distributor), and then advertise as 5 year old car, 2 owners only, 60,000km "genuine" mileage, serviced at agent. Would the buyer suspect anything?

This is very common practise nowadays with so many private hire cars in the resale market.

 

 

 

 

 

There are so many ways they can tweak or tamper it without the buyers knowing. We are not in the used car business. They know all the tricks of the trade.  We are mere consumers trying to buy a safe ride at a reasonable price without being cheated. I now take it with a few spoonfuls of salt when I see an advertisement stating low mileage. There is no protection to the consumer at all. The lemon law has no teeth here.  I also don't believe it when it is claimed to be "fully serviced by distributor". One can send a car 1 time to the AD to do an oil change and decline all other recommended repairs and get the sticker that say serviced by Authorised Distributor. Means nothing. 

 

On 10/14/2019 at 1:16 PM, Mrlancergtx said:

Used dealers (if the situation allows them) would wind down the odometer to even zero or pre-delivery level mileage.

Given that such numbers would be a dead giveaway, they would resort to adjusting to anything that they think will fetch them a sale, and most importantly an exorbitant price.

The question by the thread starter is akin asking a cold blooded physco murderer what would it take for him to stop doing the murders...in fact nothing will unless he is caught and jailed.

The unscrupulous practice of the dealers will only stop when the authorities act upon it ....

 

I like the analogy of a cold blooded psycho 🤣. But I wouldn't go that far to call them that.  But the issue Mrlancergtx mentioned is absolutely right. Until there is serious consequence, this will not stop. Even if he is caught, means nothing to some of these unscrupulous dealers. They just bo-chap and what can the buyer do? Lan-lan. See this recent case, buyer went to court, won the case against the used car dealer. Dealer ordered by the court to pay but he just refuse or drag it out. How much time and effort wasted to get compensation? Even court rule in your favour, also cannot get compensation. That is why these unscrupulous dealers will continue to do it. Because they can get away with it. Even kena ordered by the court, they can close the company and transfer the assets to another company under their family or friends or partners name. After all the incriminating company already chao-mia,  bad reputation. After all, would anyone who knows about this case ever buy a car from this company? But of course, there are suckers born every minute unfortunately. 

https://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=21927

 

[Spring]

57 minutes ago, Gearshift101 said:

There are so many ways they can tweak or tamper it without the buyers knowing. We are not in the used car business. They know all the tricks of the trade.  We are mere consumers trying to buy a safe ride at a reasonable price without being cheated. I now take it with a few spoonfuls of salt when I see an advertisement stating low mileage. There is no protection to the consumer at all. The lemon law has no teeth here.  I also don't believe it when it is claimed to be "fully serviced by distributor". One can send a car 1 time to the AD to do an oil change and decline all other recommended repairs and get the sticker that say serviced by Authorised Distributor. Means nothing. 

 

I like the analogy of a cold blooded psycho 🤣. But I wouldn't go that far to call them that.  But the issue Mrlancergtx mentioned is absolutely right. Until there is serious consequence, this will not stop. Even if he is caught, means nothing to some of these unscrupulous dealers. They just bo-chap and what can the buyer do? Lan-lan. See this recent case, buyer went to court, won the case against the used car dealer. Dealer ordered by the court to pay but he just refuse or drag it out. How much time and effort wasted to get compensation? Even court rule in your favour, also cannot get compensation. That is why these unscrupulous dealers will continue to do it. Because they can get away with it. Even kena ordered by the court, they can close the company and transfer the assets to another company under their family or friends or partners name. After all the incriminating company already chao-mia,  bad reputation. After all, would anyone who knows about this case ever buy a car from this company? But of course, there are suckers born every minute unfortunately. 

https://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=21927

 

I won't go so far as to call these buyers as "suckers" cos I believe they wouldn't want to be cheated if they knew obviously. Trouble is there are a lot of buyers who are not saavy, don't hv time or don't know how to do homework etc. Not everyone surfs MCF or is well read and even if you do, we can be cheated as well so like many have pointed out, authorities shld do something about this as it has become so rampant 

[Vinceng]

Its all in the hands of the authorities, whether they want to do anything about this.

For a start, mileage should be recorded at the compulsory  bi annual inspection for cars

[Wt_know]

the title says "how much mileage" ... i would say not enough ... if dealer want to "adjust" to 1000km and buyer believe ... he will ... LOL