2018 Nissan Serena e-POWER

[Sigeena]

The concept for e power is such that the capacity of the battery doesn't really matter as much. You're not reliant on a static charging point, so no range anxiety unlike most other EVs. 

 

Smaller batteries have their advantages 

1. Lower cost of replacement 

2. Lower weight

3. Lower cooling requirements 

[Jamesc]

56 minutes ago, Sigeena said:

The concept for e power is such that the capacity of the battery doesn't really matter as much. You're not reliant on a static charging point, so no range anxiety unlike most other EVs. 

 

Smaller batteries have their advantages 

1. Lower cost of replacement 

2. Lower weight

3. Lower cooling requirements 

Then no need to have the electric motor.

Just have a petrol engine.

The advantages 

1. Lower cost of replacement 

2. Lower weight

3. Lower cooling requirements 

4. No range anxiety

5. Lower buying price

[Sigeena]

Bro. You Tokyo drifter. People explain why small batt for epower you drift out of lane into parking lot 

[inlinesix]

2 hours ago, Sigeena said:

Bro. You Tokyo drifter. People explain why small batt for epower you drift out of lane into parking lot 

What he said is fair. With 1.4kwh battery, it is already 1.8ton.

The optimal size is 4.4kwh. Same as Prius.

[diming87]

On 5/30/2020 at 1:57 PM, Jamesc said:

Actually physics tells you the size of the 1.2L engine does not matter.

The important thing is the size of the battery.

The Serena has a small 1.8 kWh battery

while the Leaf has a bigger 40 kWh battery.

So if the Serena had a 40 kWh battery it will run no problem.

The 1.2L engine will only need to recharge the battery.

Haha. 40kWh should be an EV already. The engine will affect the charging time. If the 1.2L able to produce 3.6kW, the charging time will be 8 hours. That is only enough for 2 hours driving. Unless you want to drive Serena like an EV? 

[Heartlander]

6 hours ago, diming87 said:

Haha. 40kWh should be an EV already. The engine will affect the charging time. If the 1.2L able to produce 3.6kW, the charging time will be 8 hours. That is only enough for 2 hours driving. Unless you want to drive Serena like an EV? 

Hmm why must you charge the battery fully before can use? The concept of Serena e-power is to charge and use it at the same time, much like when your handphone is flat and you connect it to ac adaptor to charge it up and using it at the same time. If you watching youtube it might not have enough power and shutdown soon after.

So if Serena is equipped with a bigger battery, it can be charged to higher capacity and not get depleted quickly when going up slope such that it enters "limping" mode. You do not necessarily need to have a bigger engine but that is what the engineers need to balance.

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, Heartlander said:

Hmm why must you charge the battery fully before can use? The concept of Serena e-power is to charge and use it at the same time, much like when your handphone is flat and you connect it to ac adaptor to charge it up and using it at the same time. If you watching youtube it might not have enough power and shutdown soon after.

So if Serena is equipped with a bigger battery, it can be charged to higher capacity and not get depleted quickly when going up slope such that it enters "limping" mode. You do not necessarily need to have a bigger engine but that is what the engineers need to balance.

Serena problem is battery too small.

Even previous gen BMW 3 series hybrid has 7.6kwh battery.  It can move 50km on pure electric.

[diming87]

On 6/11/2020 at 4:41 PM, Heartlander said:

Hmm why must you charge the battery fully before can use? The concept of Serena e-power is to charge and use it at the same time, much like when your handphone is flat and you connect it to ac adaptor to charge it up and using it at the same time. If you watching youtube it might not have enough power and shutdown soon after.

So if Serena is equipped with a bigger battery, it can be charged to higher capacity and not get depleted quickly when going up slope such that it enters "limping" mode. You do not necessarily need to have a bigger engine but that is what the engineers need to balance.

Engineers have to balance between both engine and battery.

The bigger the battery, the more charging power it requires from the petrol generator. Just like handphone with larger battery size. 5V1A is just too slow in charging your phone, we use 5V2A, some even use fast charging, USB C 12V3A. 

With bigger the battery, it does not mean it has higher charging capacity. The limiting factor for Serena is the 1.2L petrol generator (the charger). Nissan Note E-power such a small car is using the same petrol generator as the Serena. 

It is like using a tablet plugging it into phone charger. As you play game on tablet, the battery level keep drop. 

[Didu]

The Serena has such a big roof. Nissan should consider installing solar panel(a la Prius PHV) on it to help with the charging. 

[Heartlander]

1 hour ago, diming87 said:

Engineers have to balance between both engine and battery.

The bigger the battery, the more charging power it requires from the petrol generator. Just like handphone with larger battery size. 5V1A is just too slow in charging your phone, we use 5V2A, some even use fast charging, USB C 12V3A. 

With bigger the battery, it does not mean it has higher charging capacity. The limiting factor for Serena is the 1.2L petrol generator (the charger). Nissan Note E-power such a small car is using the same petrol generator as the Serena. 

It is like using a tablet plugging it into phone charger. As you play game on tablet, the battery level keep drop. 

The highlighted statement is not really correct. A bigger battery will only mean longer time to be fully charged up, everything equal meaning the 1.2L engine.

If you use a bigger battery for Serena, the 1.2L engine will just keep on charging the battery before it is fully charged up. The battery will just keep powering the alternator to drive the car while being charged. So the driver will be hearing more of the charging hum compare to now when he just collect the car, or after a long time never drive the car due to overseas holiday, but after fully charged it should behave similar to now. The big difference with a bigger battery is when the car is driven up a long slope whereby the battery can no longer hold the charge whereby its charge keeps dropping despite the engine doing its job charging the battery. The bigger battery capacity would allow its depletion to last a longer distance before the limping mode comes on, to allow the car to move at normal speed and not 40km/hr.

The balance to choose the battery capacity for me would be to decide on how long to cater before the limping mode comes on. Would be good if a more powerful engine could be used with the increase in battery capacity, actually either or both if increased would be good to lengthen the time before limping mode comes on, but most buyer would prefer a smaller engine to pay lower tax etc. Hope my explanation is clear.

[Sigeena]

Long up slope? Not in Singapore obviously. Genting or Cameron Highlands? Maybe. I don't see myself going there every month, so that's a very low requirement for me. 

Why make it such a big deal? 

There is no perfect battery size to generator setup. But if it satisfies for 98-99% of user requirements, that's pretty good. People nowadays want FC, so the smaller engine does that. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Sigeena

[Cklasse]

This setup is good for city driving in Japan and Singapore. It strikes a balance for the 1.2L engine and battery as long as the Serena goes slow and easy. This is a car that is not designed to go fast and furious although it can accelerate fast.
 

[Heartlander]

On 6/15/2020 at 3:49 PM, Sigeena said:

Long up slope? Not in Singapore obviously. Genting or Cameron Highlands? Maybe. I don't see myself going there every month, so that's a very low requirement for me. 

Why make it such a big deal? 

There is no perfect battery size to generator setup. But if it satisfies for 98-99% of user requirements, that's pretty good. People nowadays want FC, so the smaller engine does that. 

This is called transparency, actual user feedback that non-owners will not know until they own it, which could totally be avoided if the current owners have been honest about it. My colleague was one who bought it early and found out the hard way, and regretted very much because his plans have been derailed. Imagine that if you are in his shoes!

Never talk only about the good points, but please share the negative points so that we all can learn and do proper due diligence if evaluating whether to plonk hard-earned money for it or should get other alternatives.

Pardon my rants. I am not in habit of sharing this as it seems I am perceived to be diminishing this excellent car, which I am not because it is excellent as it is. I always recommend this car along with my Steppie, for those who pay attention. But a fact is a fact. Do not try to hide as it will come to light eventually. Lets end this episode here and not talk about this battery capacity thingy any more for now. Thanks.

[inlinesix]

11 hours ago, Heartlander said:

This is called transparency, actual user feedback that non-owners will not know until they own it, which could totally be avoided if the current owners have been honest about it. My colleague was one who bought it early and found out the hard way, and regretted very much because his plans have been derailed. Imagine that if you are in his shoes!

Never talk only about the good points, but please share the negative points so that we all can learn and do proper due diligence if evaluating whether to plonk hard-earned money for it or should get other alternatives.

Pardon my rants. I am not in habit of sharing this as it seems I am perceived to be diminishing this excellent car, which I am not because it is excellent as it is. I always recommend this car along with my Steppie, for those who pay attention. But a fact is a fact. Do not try to hide as it will come to light eventually. Lets end this episode here and not talk about this battery capacity thingy any more for now. Thanks.

Can you ask your colleague climb Mount Faber to see whether it will go into limp mode?  With his family.

[Soya]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

Can you ask your colleague climb Mount Faber to see whether it will go into limp mode?  With his family.

Mt.Faber can lah. Juz wear earplugs

Rode in a Serena Hybrid up to Genting b4 w 7 pax. OMG.....the 2L engine and batt pack sounded like someone pulling teeth without any anesthetic...

 

[inlinesix]

4 minutes ago, Soya said:

Mt.Faber can lah. Juz wear earplugs

Rode in a Serena Hybrid up to Genting b4 w 7 pax. OMG.....the 2L engine and batt pack sounded like someone pulling teeth without any anesthetic...

Let me get to this chart.

When output > input, confirm CMI with 1.2kwh battery.

Smelly smelly need 8.8kwh similar to Toyota Prius PHV.

With 1.2kwh, after taking off 20% buffer, gone case liao.

If the battery always go into overdrive, confirm uplorry very fast.

[Soya]

5 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Let me get to this chart.

When output > input, confirm CMI with 1.2kwh battery.

Smelly smelly need 8.8kwh similar to Toyota Prius PHV.

With 1.2kwh, after taking off 20% buffer, gone case liao.

If the battery always go into overdrive, confirm uplorry very fast.

Pottering around the city stop go traffic ok lah

And sometimes it's all one needs to get from A to B in Sg

As long as expectations are managed, it's fine

 

 

[Heartlander]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Can you ask your colleague climb Mount Faber to see whether it will go into limp mode?  With his family.

No need to do that as sure can lah. I will not want to comment further on this as creating bad optics for myself on this.