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I need some help deciding between the Mazda Cx5 and Rav4. I dont know how to choose. Mazda is loaded while the Rav4 is not. Anyone can advise how to choose? 

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1 hour ago, Han1911 said:

I need some help deciding between the Mazda Cx5 and Rav4. I dont know how to choose. Mazda is loaded while the Rav4 is not. Anyone can advise how to choose? 

Followed a colleague test drive these two one after another.

 

RAV4 first then CX-5. I felt the CX-5 was a better drive...

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21 hours ago, Han1911 said:

I need some help deciding between the Mazda Cx5 and Rav4. I dont know how to choose. Mazda is loaded while the Rav4 is not. Anyone can advise how to choose? 

I am driving a RAV4 and the consumption is about 12.5km/l which is close to Wish which I was driving previously.

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@Han1911 

Long story short -
Very simple, go sit and test drive both. And I think the moment you do, CX-5 will probably win it. I thought the best description from one of the car review sites nailed it. The Rav4 is basically an... appliance and at quite a price as well.

Exterior - Might be subjective, some folks will "prefer" the ruggedness of the Rav4 but others like myself just think its ugly. The Rav4 just doesn't do it for me, its trying hard to be rugged and sleek, but doesn't achieve any. I'd rather get the forester if I want something rugged looking. But I haven't met anyone whom didn't think the Cx-5 was beautiful. Many a times, I've seen people do double takes at CX5s, especially the soul red ones. 

Interior - the moment you open the doors for both and sit in them, it would be self explanatory. The interior for CX-5 blows the Rav4 out of the water by a long mile.  Toyota gives 0 fks about the interior. Nothing much about it is well thought out, and its just all in poor taste. Whereas Mazda takes their interior damn seriously. Again, the moment you sit in both, I think it will be very apparent. And the CX5 will give conti rides a run for their money as well. Take it from someone whom has owned a couple of conti rides. 

Features - Cx5 doesn't come with Mazda's "top of the range" feature set like the Cx30 and mz3s. But I'd say its quite sufficient at the luxury trim. You get what I would call the things that are genuinely useful rather than the "good to haves". 360 cam, smart city braking, electric tailgate, HUD (gives you your speed, road speed limits, blindspot alert), blindspot monitors (which are also baked into the HUD). You might get some LKA and probably adaptive cruise control with Rav4 (not sure about this) but I would say you don't lose out on anything that is important and inherently useful with Cx5.

Driving - Rav 4's CVT vs Mazda's NA implementation, no fight here. This is pretty extensively reviewed and I don't know anyone whom likes driving that would choose the CVT. That said, the good thing going for the Rav4 would be the wishbone suspension; I really like Toyota's wishbone! (Almost coughed up for a Camry previously but the CVT and interior were deal breakers). Steering and handling on Rav4 not great. The pick up on the Rav 4 is also quite rough from memory at lower RPMs. Cx-5 is probably best in class for this category for handling and fun to drive. Again, loads of reviews be it asian or western have attested to this. The ride is also pretty refined and the gear shifts are legit quite magic despite it being 6 speed; damn smooth. That said, 2litres NA, some will complain no "oomph" vs turbo models in other countries. For Rav 4, 2.0 CVT lagi don't need to repeat.

Space - Rav4 wins this hands down. Cx5 isn't really a monster in space, but I think its sufficient for most folks tbh. The boot takes up wheelchairs, strollers etc with ease. Rear seating is spacious enough as well, unless you have a family of 2m tall folks both sitting in front and back. 

Pricing - The AD version is going for over 160k (in May 2021), almost 20k more than the CX5. Nothing I have seen justifies the ~20k premium over CX5 if you ask me. I personally think you're actually getting a lot less car for the money compared to CX5. If I must cough up extra cash over CX5, I'd go look at the harrier, which is also overpriced if you ask me. Its great but at the premium you pay, there is huge diminishing returns on what you get. 

Reliability - Don't think you need to worry much about the CX5, pretty much voted most reliable in CR (from memory in this category) amongst the compact SUV segment and lowest maintenance cost and down time in its segment. Rav 4 doesn't fare badly either, but I think as some have pointed out, there are some annoyances on more "minor" issues like worksmanship etc. 

If you really must consider other cars in this space that are non conti, perhaps you should look at Subaru, and when the new Tucson arrives on our shores. I'm sorry but Toyota does need to up their game, it is now 2021 not 2000s. They do make good cars here and there still, but the rest of the industry has already progressed by leaps and bounds. 

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Turbocharged
1 hour ago, Kopickosong said:

@Han1911 

Long story short -
Very simple, go sit and test drive both. And I think the moment you do, CX-5 will probably win it. I thought the best description from one of the car review sites nailed it. The Rav4 is basically an... appliance and at quite a price as well.

Exterior - Might be subjective, some folks will "prefer" the ruggedness of the Rav4 but others like myself just think its ugly. The Rav4 just doesn't do it for me, its trying hard to be rugged and sleek, but doesn't achieve any. I'd rather get the forester if I want something rugged looking. But I haven't met anyone whom didn't think the Cx-5 was beautiful. Many a times, I've seen people do double takes at CX5s, especially the soul red ones. 

Interior - the moment you open the doors for both and sit in them, it would be self explanatory. The interior for CX-5 blows the Rav4 out of the water by a long mile.  Toyota gives 0 fks about the interior. Nothing much about it is well thought out, and its just all in poor taste. Whereas Mazda takes their interior damn seriously. Again, the moment you sit in both, I think it will be very apparent. And the CX5 will give conti rides a run for their money as well. Take it from someone whom has owned a couple of conti rides. 

Features - Cx5 doesn't come with Mazda's "top of the range" feature set like the Cx30 and mz3s. But I'd say its quite sufficient at the luxury trim. You get what I would call the things that are genuinely useful rather than the "good to haves". 360 cam, smart city braking, electric tailgate, HUD (gives you your speed, road speed limits, blindspot alert), blindspot monitors (which are also baked into the HUD). You might get some LKA and probably adaptive cruise control with Rav4 (not sure about this) but I would say you don't lose out on anything that is important and inherently useful with Cx5.

Driving - Rav 4's CVT vs Mazda's NA implementation, no fight here. This is pretty extensively reviewed and I don't know anyone whom likes driving that would choose the CVT. That said, the good thing going for the Rav4 would be the wishbone suspension; I really like Toyota's wishbone! (Almost coughed up for a Camry previously but the CVT and interior were deal breakers). Steering and handling on Rav4 not great. The pick up on the Rav 4 is also quite rough from memory at lower RPMs. Cx-5 is probably best in class for this category for handling and fun to drive. Again, loads of reviews be it asian or western have attested to this. The ride is also pretty refined and the gear shifts are legit quite magic despite it being 6 speed; damn smooth. That said, 2litres NA, some will complain no "oomph" vs turbo models in other countries. For Rav 4, 2.0 CVT lagi don't need to repeat.

Space - Rav4 wins this hands down. Cx5 isn't really a monster in space, but I think its sufficient for most folks tbh. The boot takes up wheelchairs, strollers etc with ease. Rear seating is spacious enough as well, unless you have a family of 2m tall folks both sitting in front and back. 

Pricing - The AD version is going for over 160k (in May 2021), almost 20k more than the CX5. Nothing I have seen justifies the ~20k premium over CX5 if you ask me. I personally think you're actually getting a lot less car for the money compared to CX5. If I must cough up extra cash over CX5, I'd go look at the harrier, which is also overpriced if you ask me. Its great but at the premium you pay, there is huge diminishing returns on what you get. 

Reliability - Don't think you need to worry much about the CX5, pretty much voted most reliable in CR (from memory in this category) amongst the compact SUV segment and lowest maintenance cost and down time in its segment. Rav 4 doesn't fare badly either, but I think as some have pointed out, there are some annoyances on more "minor" issues like worksmanship etc. 

If you really must consider other cars in this space that are non conti, perhaps you should look at Subaru, and when the new Tucson arrives on our shores. I'm sorry but Toyota does need to up their game, it is now 2021 not 2000s. They do make good cars here and there still, but the rest of the industry has already progressed by leaps and bounds. 

I don't disagree with the main salient points in your post, and the CX-5 aces the RAV4 in quite a few areas, but its not at the night-and-day levels of difference that you are suggesting lah. Some of it is down to how the local ADs spec and price their cars, and some of it is down to your own perceptions and prejudices.

It does seem that the RAV4 resonates with many buyers elsewhere in the world, making it the 3rd best selling car in the world for a couple of years already.

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(edited)
56 minutes ago, Toeknee_33 said:

I don't disagree with the main salient points in your post, and the CX-5 aces the RAV4 in quite a few areas, but its not at the night-and-day levels of difference that you are suggesting lah. Some of it is down to how the local ADs spec and price their cars, and some of it is down to your own perceptions and prejudices.

It does seem that the RAV4 resonates with many buyers elsewhere in the world, making it the 3rd best selling car in the world for a couple of years already.

What he mentioned are mostly aesthetics. What the RAV4 selling point is the chassis, engine and drive-train. That is where the money goes to.

The CX5 engine and gb are the same since 2012 with slight improvement while the RAV4's TNGA platform, dynamic force engine and direct shift cvt are all new. They can improve on the interior and exterior on the current CX5 model but what lies beneath matters more to me. 

Anyway if you want a plush interior just go for conti why waste your time? The RAV4 one may not feel luxurious but most likely it will last longer and not give you any issues. 

Subaru cars the OMV is so low I avoid them. Toyota also own some shares of Subaru's Fuji heavy industry. If not why they collaborate to make the BRZ/AE86? Thanks to Toyota their boxer engine now has the port and direct fuel injection found in the dynamic force engine.

For me I still look at what is offered in the drive rather than aesthetics and accessories. Car makers should focus on making good driving cars.

 

The RAV4 in the US is the  best selling SUV. They have the CX5 2.5L turbo there. Nissan tried to put one RAV4 in their showroom to let customers compare. There must some reasons why it outsell other models.

Edited by Watwheels
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(edited)

I know sgp has a lot of subaru and mazda fans and many toyota haters. You have to seriously put all biasness aside to really look at what is being offered.

If you dont know much about tech and you look at brands, I mean it is fine. The mazda subaru company in Japan or US are what you called niche brands. What they cannot compete with bigger fishes they focus their attention on other things in the car. 

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Not a Toyota hater, although that’s generally the label used when people point out the flaws of Toyota. So anyway I get that some folks are Toyota purists and might get offended but it is what it is. 

Wanted to add that we currently have a Camry hybrid as a family car so I am adding input as a fellow Toyota brand owner and driver and not some hater whose never owned or driven one. We’ve got a bmw and a mazda as well at the moment and used to have another Toyota before we replaced it with the newer Camry about 2 years back. Also had a VW before as well (which was a pain in the ass). The above is not about bragging but just to point out I’m speaking from some experience across various makes be it jap or conti and therefore have some degree of objectivity.

Just adding my 2 cents worth to the other person looking at one. There is still the “badge premium” Toyota commands and that is my main point, it’s just not really worth it at least for the RAV4 is my view. I’m not saying it’s a terrible car, but the price is not priced “right” in my view for what you get and with the other competitors. 5 to 10 years ago, I think they’d still get away with it without question. Today, well as some others have pointed out, they’re not so much the “default” car to go for anymore. 

I buy a car for the drive experience and functionality, not so much by resale value, badge or by how many units sold globally. Those things are meaningless to me. I personally don’t think the “new” engine on the rav4 is that great tbh, it’s still pretty rough as I mentioned so again new. So what if it’s “newer” would be my question? If the older mazda engine is a better experience than I’d go for that. 

The new Toyota  platform I have given credit where it is due, and that is to me the real salvaging point. It’s also present on our Camry and I can attest to it being really good. 

Anyway I don’t really think that there are any bad cars per se in general, just a matter of pricing. And I don’t think the rav4 is really “priced right” in Singapore at the moment, although it might be in other countries. Cheers.

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Turbocharged
29 minutes ago, Kopickosong said:

Not a Toyota hater, although that’s generally the label used when people point out the flaws of Toyota. So anyway I get that some folks are Toyota purists and might get offended but it is what it is. 

Wanted to add that we currently have a Camry hybrid as a family car so I am adding input as a fellow Toyota brand owner and driver and not some hater whose never owned or driven one. We’ve got a bmw and a mazda as well at the moment and used to have another Toyota before we replaced it with the newer Camry about 2 years back. Also had a VW before as well (which was a pain in the ass). The above is not about bragging but just to point out I’m speaking from some experience across various makes be it jap or conti and therefore have some degree of objectivity.

Just adding my 2 cents worth to the other person looking at one. There is still the “badge premium” Toyota commands and that is my main point, it’s just not really worth it at least for the RAV4 is my view. I’m not saying it’s a terrible car, but the price is not priced “right” in my view for what you get and with the other competitors. 5 to 10 years ago, I think they’d still get away with it without question. Today, well as some others have pointed out, they’re not so much the “default” car to go for anymore. 

I buy a car for the drive experience and functionality, not so much by resale value, badge or by how many units sold globally. Those things are meaningless to me. I personally don’t think the “new” engine on the rav4 is that great tbh, it’s still pretty rough as I mentioned so again new. So what if it’s “newer” would be my question? If the older mazda engine is a better experience than I’d go for that. 

The new Toyota  platform I have given credit where it is due, and that is to me the real salvaging point. It’s also present on our Camry and I can attest to it being really good. 

Anyway I don’t really think that there are any bad cars per se in general, just a matter of pricing. And I don’t think the rav4 is really “priced right” in Singapore at the moment, although it might be in other countries. Cheers.

Your comments in this post comes across as being more balanced, compared to the earlier one 👍

As you have agreed, and as I have earlier mentioned, it is how local ADs spec and price their cars that ultimately affect their standing in the marketplace. Given my set of car priorities, I would buy the CX-5 in a heartbeat over the RAV4 too, but the RAV4 trumps on space, efficiency and some active safety features, which may be important to some people, and its definitely not as bad a choice as you made it out to be originally.

 

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Supercharged
1 hour ago, Kopickosong said:

Not a Toyota hater, although that’s generally the label used when people point out the flaws of Toyota. So anyway I get that some folks are Toyota purists and might get offended but it is what it is. 

 Wanted to add that we currently have a Camry hybrid as a family car so I am adding input as a fellow Toyota brand owner and driver and not some hater whose never owned or driven one. We’ve got a bmw and a mazda as well at the moment and used to have another Toyota before we replaced it with the newer Camry about 2 years back. Also had a VW before as well (which was a pain in the ass). The above is not about bragging but just to point out I’m speaking from some experience across various makes be it jap or conti and therefore have some degree of objectivity.

Just adding my 2 cents worth to the other person looking at one. There is still the “badge premium” Toyota commands and that is my main point, it’s just not really worth it at least for the RAV4 is my view. I’m not saying it’s a terrible car, but the price is not priced “right” in my view for what you get and with the other competitors. 5 to 10 years ago, I think they’d still get away with it without question. Today, well as some others have pointed out, they’re not so much the “default” car to go for anymore. 

I buy a car for the drive experience and functionality, not so much by resale value, badge or by how many units sold globally. Those things are meaningless to me. I personally don’t think the “new” engine on the rav4 is that great tbh, it’s still pretty rough as I mentioned so again new. So what if it’s “newer” would be my question? If the older mazda engine is a better experience than I’d go for that. 

The new Toyota  platform I have given credit where it is due, and that is to me the real salvaging point. It’s also present on our Camry and I can attest to it being really good. 

Anyway I don’t really think that there are any bad cars per se in general, just a matter of pricing. And I don’t think the rav4 is really “priced right” in Singapore at the moment, although it might be in other countries. Cheers.

It is quite easy to get blown away by nice soft interiors in the showroom.

You go to the Conti big three and sit inside their car... wah

Toyota somehow they really still spend more efforts on other things compared to interior. 

Allhave their fans. 

For you, no hesitation to go for Mazda. Respect.

There are many others who for combinations of reasons go for RAV4, even after the seduction of the beautiful competitor interiors. They must have something else on their minds....

 

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Turbocharged
23 hours ago, Hamburger said:

I sum out long story shorter. 

Rav 4 is ugly. Period. 

I concur. 

No worries, let the famed Mitsouka turn it from ugly to nice!

127263869_3566903770097660_7631177018629359079_n.jpg

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On 5/4/2021 at 11:16 AM, Kopickosong said:

@Han1911 

Long story short -
Very simple, go sit and test drive both. And I think the moment you do, CX-5 will probably win it. I thought the best description from one of the car review sites nailed it. The Rav4 is basically an... appliance and at quite a price as well.

Exterior - Might be subjective, some folks will "prefer" the ruggedness of the Rav4 but others like myself just think its ugly. The Rav4 just doesn't do it for me, its trying hard to be rugged and sleek, but doesn't achieve any. I'd rather get the forester if I want something rugged looking. But I haven't met anyone whom didn't think the Cx-5 was beautiful. Many a times, I've seen people do double takes at CX5s, especially the soul red ones. 

Interior - the moment you open the doors for both and sit in them, it would be self explanatory. The interior for CX-5 blows the Rav4 out of the water by a long mile.  Toyota gives 0 fks about the interior. Nothing much about it is well thought out, and its just all in poor taste. Whereas Mazda takes their interior damn seriously. Again, the moment you sit in both, I think it will be very apparent. And the CX5 will give conti rides a run for their money as well. Take it from someone whom has owned a couple of conti rides. 

Features - Cx5 doesn't come with Mazda's "top of the range" feature set like the Cx30 and mz3s. But I'd say its quite sufficient at the luxury trim. You get what I would call the things that are genuinely useful rather than the "good to haves". 360 cam, smart city braking, electric tailgate, HUD (gives you your speed, road speed limits, blindspot alert), blindspot monitors (which are also baked into the HUD). You might get some LKA and probably adaptive cruise control with Rav4 (not sure about this) but I would say you don't lose out on anything that is important and inherently useful with Cx5.

Driving - Rav 4's CVT vs Mazda's NA implementation, no fight here. This is pretty extensively reviewed and I don't know anyone whom likes driving that would choose the CVT. That said, the good thing going for the Rav4 would be the wishbone suspension; I really like Toyota's wishbone! (Almost coughed up for a Camry previously but the CVT and interior were deal breakers). Steering and handling on Rav4 not great. The pick up on the Rav 4 is also quite rough from memory at lower RPMs. Cx-5 is probably best in class for this category for handling and fun to drive. Again, loads of reviews be it asian or western have attested to this. The ride is also pretty refined and the gear shifts are legit quite magic despite it being 6 speed; damn smooth. That said, 2litres NA, some will complain no "oomph" vs turbo models in other countries. For Rav 4, 2.0 CVT lagi don't need to repeat.

Space - Rav4 wins this hands down. Cx5 isn't really a monster in space, but I think its sufficient for most folks tbh. The boot takes up wheelchairs, strollers etc with ease. Rear seating is spacious enough as well, unless you have a family of 2m tall folks both sitting in front and back. 

Pricing - The AD version is going for over 160k (in May 2021), almost 20k more than the CX5. Nothing I have seen justifies the ~20k premium over CX5 if you ask me. I personally think you're actually getting a lot less car for the money compared to CX5. If I must cough up extra cash over CX5, I'd go look at the harrier, which is also overpriced if you ask me. Its great but at the premium you pay, there is huge diminishing returns on what you get. 

Reliability - Don't think you need to worry much about the CX5, pretty much voted most reliable in CR (from memory in this category) amongst the compact SUV segment and lowest maintenance cost and down time in its segment. Rav 4 doesn't fare badly either, but I think as some have pointed out, there are some annoyances on more "minor" issues like worksmanship etc. 

If you really must consider other cars in this space that are non conti, perhaps you should look at Subaru, and when the new Tucson arrives on our shores. I'm sorry but Toyota does need to up their game, it is now 2021 not 2000s. They do make good cars here and there still, but the rest of the industry has already progressed by leaps and bounds. 

Great comparison between the RAV 4 and CX-5. 

The local authorized distributor for Toyota really need to up their game, bring it better equipped models and price their cars right. 

I am seeing many more Elantras than Corollas and more CX-5 / Foresters than RAV4s on the roads. 

I am sure Toyota is still a volume seller in S'pore with many buying just on the strength of the badge alone.

But it's a matter of time before they are dethroned from the No. 1 perch if they carry on down this path. 

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@noobcarbuyer 

Agreed, I think Toyota (or rather the AD) is really getting quite complacent in Singapore, largely living off the goodwill built up from the past. The most simple and obvious thing to point out is the infotainment system across the lineup, be it Camry, Corolla Altis, and this Rav4. That's the biggest eye sore whenever I get into the family Camry. Although some will say, you can go aftermarket to get it swapped out; it kinda misses the point. If you're paying good money for a car, you'd expect NOT to have to do stuff like this. If I'm paying like 80k for a ride, then okay that's acceptable.

If you go look at the Malaysian reviews on the Rav4, I believe they are also asking the same question. (Wapcar, Autobuzz) I'm quite a fan of Wapcar, that fella is generally objective and more willing to be blunt. Autobuzz is abit more generous on theirs for the Rav4, but both ultimately comes to the same conclusion.

At over 200k ringgit, the car needs to be scrutinised to that price tag accordingly, and there really isn't any justifiable reason to get it aside from allegiance to the Toyota badge. And they're reviewing the 2.5 version, not the 2.0 one we get here. The sentiments from the comments are also pretty much thematic.  

In summary - Basically also viewed as overpriced there, not too different from Singapore (my own view). 

In the same vein, if you're coughing up over 160k for it in SG, then we should rightfully look at competition in that space. And these days, you can get more car for lesser price than that. 

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@Kopickosong 

In Malaysia, import cars are hard to compete with locally assembled cars due to their policy to protect their local car industry. Hence imported cars  usually come with heavy excise duties, between 60% and 105% which explains the high selling price of $200k for the Rav4 in Malaysia. Think you need to look objectively.

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@Powxus 

I guess we can agree to disagree since my "objectivity" doesn't conform to justifying paying a higher price tag because of taxes. But hey what do I know, feel free to go to the comments and ask the Msians and their reviewers to be more objective. Some folks here in SG with deeper pockets might also agree with you - especially those that can afford to ignore and "write off" VES surcharges when comparing rides. Unfortunately, my pockets not that deep. 😅

Won't bother getting into a debate on this since we're in Singapore. But just stating other reference points and reviews done by other folks whom would probably qualify as being more objective. It is priced at a premium there to alternative options, same in Singapore, albeit on a 2.0 CVT here versus their 2.5 NA. I think we can agree that this is an objective fact. If you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that it is priced at a premium to competitors for starters, then I think you might need to self reflect on the objectivity point. 

To be clear, nothing wrong with being priced at a premium, when that premium is commensurate with what they give you. But in this case, the point is that it doesn't.

Again to reiterate the earlier posts and the reviews (if you couldn't bring yourself to watch them): Is it a bad car? No. Is it badly priced? Yes.

If you got money to burn and you're set on the Toyota badge, then yes by all means go ahead, nothing wrong with it. Although if you really did, I'd still ask you to skip this and look at the Harrier, which although priced at premium, to me at least it offers a better bang for buck compared to Rav4. 

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