Ben Davis not allowed to defer NS for Fulham stint

[inlinesix]

Obviously I am not him so can't say for sure.

 

But would you go to jail to prove a point?

 

Does DB leave a criminal record?

 

I will definitely do it.

 

In fact, i will invite media to wait for me at Changi Airport.

[Fcw75]

Does DB leave a criminal record?

 

I will definitely do it.

 

In fact, i will invite media to wait for me at Changi Airport.

 

Make sure it's the right media and not our 154th Straits Times. 

[Tianmo]

Does DB leave a criminal record?

 

I will definitely do it.

 

In fact, i will invite media to wait for me at Changi Airport.

 

if I am not wrong, DB no criminal record one.

 

If criminal case during NS or as a regular, will be refer to civil court. 

 

AWOL is not criminal case, is only chargeable under court martial.     

Edited July 23, 2018 by Tianmo

[Beregond]

if I am not wrong, DB no criminal record one.

 

If criminal case during NS or as a regular, will be refer to civil court. 

 

AWOL is not criminal case, is only chargeable under court martial.     

but i think u go to 'U' . nus etc

 

they will ask u .

[kdash]

Does DB leave a criminal record?

 

I will definitely do it.

 

In fact, i will invite media to wait for me at Changi Airport.

[Kusje]

Does DB leave a criminal record?

 

I will definitely do it.

 

In fact, i will invite media to wait for me at Changi Airport.

No criminal record.

 

You are willing to risk 2 years of freedom to prove a point?

[Tianmo]

but i think u go to 'U' . nus etc

 

they will ask u .

 

 

oh never knew it.

 

never tio DB so not very clear.     

[Acemundo]

Are you now admitting that all the while your defending that they are foreigners and thus dont understand our law, and that he has no time to read up on what doesnt interest him, including the future of his son is bulls**t?

 

You have painted MINDEF as in the wrong by rejecting the deferment, I on the other hand did not paint that Davis did wrong, all I did was pointed out that he asked for an open dated deferment which nobody in the right state of mind will approve. And that Senior Davis have to do his homework regarding the future of his son. He has all the right to apply for deferment, MINDEF has all the right to reject.

 

But dont KPKB when deferment is rejected.

 

you assume someone is blocking the conversation, I dont.

 

It is his deferment, he needs to apply it himself, simple as that. If they think that going through a third party can give them a higher chance, they will have to weigh it out themselves, nobody can advice them on that.

 

If they want a meeting with MINDEF, they just have to make that appointment, who is stopping them from doing so. Pick up the phone and call MINDEF or send an email in to make an appointment, what so difficult?

 

Anyway, if you refuse to answer the question, I am not going to push it hard at you. You are here long enough, and most oldies know how you react, since you choose to run away from it, I shall not push on, unless you want to prove me wrong.

the only matter i admit is i give up explaining to you.

 

i dont think i am running away by not answering questions on assumptions and suppositions. i just feel it doesnt lead to anywhere.

 

from your last para, it seems my way of debating may have offended you. my sincere apologies for unwittingly doing so. i value friends more than winning an argument. this is especially as i do know you on personal level having met up before. throughout the exhange i sincerely dont have any negative feelings against you. let's chill.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Acemundo

[Tianmo]

the only matter i admit is i give up explaining to you.

 

i dont think i am running away by not answering questions on assumptions and suppositions. i just feel it doesnt lead to anywhere.

 

from your last para, it seems my way of debating may have offended you. my sincere apologies for unwittingly doing so. i value friends more than winning an argument. this is especially as i do know you on personal level having met up before. throughout the exhange i sincerely dont have any negative feelings against you. let's chill.

 

aiya bro, i know very well you have strong views, not first day I am here, thats why I never want to engage in an exchange with you. This round you wanted to have a discussion so I just have to response lah.

 

There is really no cause for apologies, for I am not offended, is just my way of switching to engagement mode from a more relax mode, may seem a little more aggressive.

 

From the start I already mentioned that I am replying to you out of respect since we do know each other offline. Discussion online is after all just a discussion, it doesnt really concern us directly most of the time, and I too value our friendship, no negative feeling on my part too. Chill..

Edited July 23, 2018 by Tianmo

[Acemundo]

aiya bro, i know very well you have strong views, not first day I am here, thats why I never want to engage in an exchange with you. This round you wanted to have a discussion so I just have to response lah.

 

There is really no cause for apologies, for I am not offended, is just my way of switching to engagement mode from a more relax mode, may seem a little more aggressive.

 

From the start I already mentioned that I am replying to you out of respect since we do know each other offline. Discussion online is after all just a discussion, it doesnt really concern us directly most of the time, and I too value our friendship, no negative feeling on my part too. Chill..

[Camrysfa]

That's why we must have more family like Heng.

 

7 kids.

 

In addition, includes girl in NS will increase the number of recruits.

 

? which Heng have 7 kids.

 

[RadX]

My positive for mcf here is how 2 rational adults like @acemundo and @tianmo engage, fight then agree to disagree and stil remain friends .

 

That is how I see the great level of engagement here and no DISLIKES or petty challenges or snide remarks.

 

Tks bros . Many here can learn to see what civil engagement is all about

 

As for Ben, let it be la but @spring still no happy haaaaa

[Kezg1]

My positive for mcf here is how 2 rational adults like @acemundo and @tianmo engage, fight then agree to disagree and stil remain friends .

 

That is how I see the great level of engagement here and no DISLIKES or petty challenges or snide remarks.

 

Tks bros . Many here can learn to see what civil engagement is all about

 

As for Ben, let it be la but @spring still no happy haaaaa

.. That's how sensible adults have behave n interact...Cheers tianmo n acemundo

[Cheesey74]

SINGAPORE: The reasons for the rejection of the application to defer Benjamin Davis' National Service were spelled out in Parliament on Monday (Aug 6), with Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen highlighting it has not been shown how such a move would benefit football. 

“There has been no indication, commitment or plans as to how Mr Ben Davis would help football standards in Singapore if deferred,” Dr Ng said.

 

Dr Ng was responding to questions from Members of Parliament, who had asked about the criteria that determine if an athlete can be deferred from NS.

Davis, 17, had signed a two-year contract with newly promoted English Premier League (EPL) side Fulham, the club announced on Jul 13.

After news broke that his NS deferment application had been rejected, his father Mr Harvey Davis said it would have allowed his son to pursue his dream of playing in the EPL and “make Singapore proud by being the first Singaporean to play in the EPL”.

While the father had said that his son would serve as an inspiration for the 1,000 students – half of which are local – at his youth football academy JSSL Singapore, Dr Ng said JSSL is a business which advertises itself as having links with Fulham FC.

Dr Ng reiterated that athletes are deferred only if it serves Singapore’s interests, stating that Davis’ father has been “quite open” with what has been deemed as contrasting priorities.

“The application by Mr Harvey Davis for his son’s deferment is to further his son’s professional career first and to the longest extent possible,” Dr Ng added. “Singapore and her interests, including his son’s NS obligations, are secondary considerations, if at all.

“There is no commitment to serve Singapore or our national interests.”

REASONS FOR REJECTION

Dr Ng gave three reasons why Davis’ application was rejected.

The first is that Davis is playing for Fulham as an English national, not a Singapore citizen, Dr Ng said, referring to information published on the club’s website. It has been reported that in addition to his Singapore citizenship, Davis holds UK and Thai passports due to his parents’ lineage.

“MINDEF (Ministry of Defence) is not privy to the contract signed between them, but we assume this published information is correct and that the father must have his reasons for doing so,” Dr Ng added.

Second, Dr Ng said Davis’ father has “consistently refused” to indicate when his son would return to serve NS, pointing to a reply he gave authorities stating that he was “unable to commit to a date” due to the possibility that his son would be offered a new contract or sent out on loan.

“If Mr Ben Davis will not give up his senior contract, which provides for an allowance of a few hundred pounds a week, to serve his NS, it is even more unlikely that he will return to serve NS if he subsequently gets offered a contract worth many times more,” Dr Ng added.

“And if he is not given a further contract with Fulham FC, the father has said that he may find other clubs which his son can be loaned to.”

Third, Dr Ng said Mr Davis has indicated that his son would still proceed to sign the contract if not granted deferment, something which he has already done.

“The reason given by the father was that his son would only return to fulfil his NS commitment if he is unsuccessful in his professional career,” Dr Ng added.

“In fact, Mr Harvey Davis went further after MINDEF rejected the application – that he would consider the option for his son to renounce his Singapore citizenship in order to pursue his career.”

Still, Davis would only be able to renounce his citizenship at the age of 21, after completing his NS. MINDEF had said in a 2011 news report that for male Singapore citizens, “the acquisition of foreign citizenship or any claim of dual citizenship does not exempt them from their NS obligations”.

NS PRINCIPLES

To that end, Dr Ng stressed that NS obligations are “crucial to our nation’s survival”, as he referred to a 2017 written judgement by the Appellate High Court during an appeal on the sentencing of NS defaulters.

The judges said that every male Singaporean must serve NS at the time he is required to under the Enlistment Act, “without regard to his personal convenience and considerations”.

“When a person refuses to serve NS at the time that he is required to and instead returns to serve at a time of his own choosing, or worse, at an age when he can no longer serve, his actions strike at the very core of the principles of national security, universality and equity,” they wrote.

After a new sentencing framework was established last year, Dr Ng said 13 NS defaulters were prosecuted in court.

“Some wanted to complete their university degree first before NS. Others said they had to support their families,” Dr Ng said, pointing out that the courts dismissed these personal reasons and convicted and sentenced them to jail terms.

“The Enlistment Act is blind to ‘personal convenience and considerations’, no matter how talented the individual or exceptional his circumstances.”

Continuing on that theme, Dr Ng said deferment is granted to individuals very selectively, “if their deferment serves Singapore’s interest first and foremost, never their own”.

Athletes who have deferred have clear expectations on the standards required for their training, Dr Ng said. This includes swimmers Joseph Schooling and Quah Zheng Wen, and sailor Maximilian Soh, all of whom were given this chance to train and compete in the Olympics.

“Neither was deferment open-ended or unconditional,” he said. “They will have to return to serve NS, and if they do not meet the standards agreed upon, deferment will be curtailed.”

As for disruption for individuals after they are enlisted for NS, including those granted to medical students, Dr Ng said this follows the same principles and is also given only for “national reasons”.

“We disrupt medical students to complete their medical studies because we need them to serve as medical officers during their NS to take care of their fellow soldiers,” he explained. “It’s not an entitlement and once the reasons are no longer valid, the disruption will end.”

Going back to the court’s written judgement, Dr Ng noted that everyone has to do his “fair share”, including “every citizen who is required to serve NS making sacrifices or postponing individual goals to serve the nation when the nation needs his service”.

“These arguments spell out in unequivocal terms the NS obligations for every Singaporean male,” Dr Ng added.

“Deferment therefore cannot be for that individual, no matter how talented, to pursue his own interests or career, even if it vicariously brings credit or fame to Singapore.

“This would be fundamentally wrong and goes against the core principle of equity.”

Source: CNA/hz

[Little_prince]

he machiam already giving exam tips liao

 

if only ah ben can read in between the lines, his application for deferment would go alot more smoothly.

 

tbh , i think they have taken the wrong approach right from the start.

 

instead of going to the media, they should have settled with mindef under table.

 

now you go media liao, how he expect the govt to back down? 

 

 

 

SINGAPORE: The reasons for the rejection of the application to defer Benjamin Davis' National Service were spelled out in Parliament on Monday (Aug 6), with Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen highlighting it has not been shown how such a move would benefit football. 

“There has been no indication, commitment or plans as to how Mr Ben Davis would help football standards in Singapore if deferred,” Dr Ng said.

 

Dr Ng was responding to questions from Members of Parliament, who had asked about the criteria that determine if an athlete can be deferred from NS.

Davis, 17, had signed a two-year contract with newly promoted English Premier League (EPL) side Fulham, the club announced on Jul 13.

After news broke that his NS deferment application had been rejected, his father Mr Harvey Davis said it would have allowed his son to pursue his dream of playing in the EPL and “make Singapore proud by being the first Singaporean to play in the EPL”.

While the father had said that his son would serve as an inspiration for the 1,000 students – half of which are local – at his youth football academy JSSL Singapore, Dr Ng said JSSL is a business which advertises itself as having links with Fulham FC.

Dr Ng reiterated that athletes are deferred only if it serves Singapore’s interests, stating that Davis’ father has been “quite open” with what has been deemed as contrasting priorities.

“The application by Mr Harvey Davis for his son’s deferment is to further his son’s professional career first and to the longest extent possible,” Dr Ng added. “Singapore and her interests, including his son’s NS obligations, are secondary considerations, if at all.

“There is no commitment to serve Singapore or our national interests.”

REASONS FOR REJECTION

Dr Ng gave three reasons why Davis’ application was rejected.

The first is that Davis is playing for Fulham as an English national, not a Singapore citizen, Dr Ng said, referring to information published on the club’s website. It has been reported that in addition to his Singapore citizenship, Davis holds UK and Thai passports due to his parents’ lineage.

“MINDEF (Ministry of Defence) is not privy to the contract signed between them, but we assume this published information is correct and that the father must have his reasons for doing so,” Dr Ng added.

Second, Dr Ng said Davis’ father has “consistently refused” to indicate when his son would return to serve NS, pointing to a reply he gave authorities stating that he was “unable to commit to a date” due to the possibility that his son would be offered a new contract or sent out on loan.

“If Mr Ben Davis will not give up his senior contract, which provides for an allowance of a few hundred pounds a week, to serve his NS, it is even more unlikely that he will return to serve NS if he subsequently gets offered a contract worth many times more,” Dr Ng added.

“And if he is not given a further contract with Fulham FC, the father has said that he may find other clubs which his son can be loaned to.”

Third, Dr Ng said Mr Davis has indicated that his son would still proceed to sign the contract if not granted deferment, something which he has already done.

“The reason given by the father was that his son would only return to fulfil his NS commitment if he is unsuccessful in his professional career,” Dr Ng added.

“In fact, Mr Harvey Davis went further after MINDEF rejected the application – that he would consider the option for his son to renounce his Singapore citizenship in order to pursue his career.”

Still, Davis would only be able to renounce his citizenship at the age of 21, after completing his NS. MINDEF had said in a 2011 news report that for male Singapore citizens, “the acquisition of foreign citizenship or any claim of dual citizenship does not exempt them from their NS obligations”.

NS PRINCIPLES

To that end, Dr Ng stressed that NS obligations are “crucial to our nation’s survival”, as he referred to a 2017 written judgement by the Appellate High Court during an appeal on the sentencing of NS defaulters.

The judges said that every male Singaporean must serve NS at the time he is required to under the Enlistment Act, “without regard to his personal convenience and considerations”.

“When a person refuses to serve NS at the time that he is required to and instead returns to serve at a time of his own choosing, or worse, at an age when he can no longer serve, his actions strike at the very core of the principles of national security, universality and equity,” they wrote.

After a new sentencing framework was established last year, Dr Ng said 13 NS defaulters were prosecuted in court.

“Some wanted to complete their university degree first before NS. Others said they had to support their families,” Dr Ng said, pointing out that the courts dismissed these personal reasons and convicted and sentenced them to jail terms.

“The Enlistment Act is blind to ‘personal convenience and considerations’, no matter how talented the individual or exceptional his circumstances.”

Continuing on that theme, Dr Ng said deferment is granted to individuals very selectively, “if their deferment serves Singapore’s interest first and foremost, never their own”.

Athletes who have deferred have clear expectations on the standards required for their training, Dr Ng said. This includes swimmers Joseph Schooling and Quah Zheng Wen, and sailor Maximilian Soh, all of whom were given this chance to train and compete in the Olympics.

“Neither was deferment open-ended or unconditional,” he said. “They will have to return to serve NS, and if they do not meet the standards agreed upon, deferment will be curtailed.”

As for disruption for individuals after they are enlisted for NS, including those granted to medical students, Dr Ng said this follows the same principles and is also given only for “national reasons”.

“We disrupt medical students to complete their medical studies because we need them to serve as medical officers during their NS to take care of their fellow soldiers,” he explained. “It’s not an entitlement and once the reasons are no longer valid, the disruption will end.”

Going back to the court’s written judgement, Dr Ng noted that everyone has to do his “fair share”, including “every citizen who is required to serve NS making sacrifices or postponing individual goals to serve the nation when the nation needs his service”.

“These arguments spell out in unequivocal terms the NS obligations for every Singaporean male,” Dr Ng added.

“Deferment therefore cannot be for that individual, no matter how talented, to pursue his own interests or career, even if it vicariously brings credit or fame to Singapore.

“This would be fundamentally wrong and goes against the core principle of equity.”

Source: CNA/hz

 

 

[Othello]

 

REASONS FOR REJECTION

Dr Ng gave three reasons why Davis’ application was rejected.

 

The first is that Davis is playing for Fulham as an English national, not a Singapore citizen, Dr Ng said, referring to information published on the club’s website. It has been reported that in addition to his Singapore citizenship, Davis holds UK and Thai passports due to his parents’ lineage.

 

“MINDEF (Ministry of Defence) is not privy to the contract signed between them, but we assume this published information is correct and that the father must have his reasons for doing so,” Dr Ng added.

 

Second, Dr Ng said Davis’ father has “consistently refused” to indicate when his son would return to serve NS, pointing to a reply he gave authorities stating that he was “unable to commit to a date” due to the possibility that his son would be offered a new contract or sent out on loan.

 

“If Mr Ben Davis will not give up his senior contract, which provides for an allowance of a few hundred pounds a week, to serve his NS, it is even more unlikely that he will return to serve NS if he subsequently gets offered a contract worth many times more,” Dr Ng added.

 

“And if he is not given a further contract with Fulham FC, the father has said that he may find other clubs which his son can be loaned to.”

Third, Dr Ng said Mr Davis has indicated that his son would still proceed to sign the contract if not granted deferment, something which he has already done.

“The reason given by the father was that his son would only return to fulfil his NS commitment if he is unsuccessful in his professional career,” Dr Ng added.

“In fact, Mr Harvey Davis went further after MINDEF rejected the application – that he would consider the option for his son to renounce his Singapore citizenship in order to pursue his career.”

Still, Davis would only be able to renounce his citizenship at the age of 21, after completing his NS. MINDEF had said in a 2011 news report that for male Singapore citizens, “the acquisition of foreign citizenship or any claim of dual citizenship does not exempt them from their NS obligations”.

NS PRINCIPLES

To that end, Dr Ng stressed that NS obligations are “crucial to our nation’s survival”, as he referred to a 2017 written judgement by the Appellate High Court during an appeal on the sentencing of NS defaulters.

The judges said that every male Singaporean must serve NS at the time he is required to under the Enlistment Act, “without regard to his personal convenience and considerations”.

“When a person refuses to serve NS at the time that he is required to and instead returns to serve at a time of his own choosing, or worse, at an age when he can no longer serve, his actions strike at the very core of the principles of national security, universality and equity,” they wrote.

After a new sentencing framework was established last year, Dr Ng said 13 NS defaulters were prosecuted in court.

“Some wanted to complete their university degree first before NS. Others said they had to support their families,” Dr Ng said, pointing out that the courts dismissed these personal reasons and convicted and sentenced them to jail terms.

“The Enlistment Act is blind to ‘personal convenience and considerations’, no matter how talented the individual or exceptional his circumstances.”

Continuing on that theme, Dr Ng said deferment is granted to individuals very selectively, “if their deferment serves Singapore’s interest first and foremost, never their own”.

Athletes who have deferred have clear expectations on the standards required for their training, Dr Ng said. This includes swimmers Joseph Schooling and Quah Zheng Wen, and sailor Maximilian Soh, all of whom were given this chance to train and compete in the Olympics.

“Neither was deferment open-ended or unconditional,” he said. “They will have to return to serve NS, and if they do not meet the standards agreed upon, deferment will be curtailed.”

As for disruption for individuals after they are enlisted for NS, including those granted to medical students, Dr Ng said this follows the same principles and is also given only for “national reasons”.

“We disrupt medical students to complete their medical studies because we need them to serve as medical officers during their NS to take care of their fellow soldiers,” he explained. “It’s not an entitlement and once the reasons are no longer valid, the disruption will end.”

Going back to the court’s written judgement, Dr Ng noted that everyone has to do his “fair share”, including “every citizen who is required to serve NS making sacrifices or postponing individual goals to serve the nation when the nation needs his service”.

“These arguments spell out in unequivocal terms the NS obligations for every Singaporean male,” Dr Ng added.

“Deferment therefore cannot be for that individual, no matter how talented, to pursue his own interests or career, even if it vicariously brings credit or fame to Singapore.

“This would be fundamentally wrong and goes against the core principle of equity.”

Source: CNA/hz

 

 

the 2nd and 3rd reason, tbh is damn flimsy and arbitrary. 

 

The first reason - I'm just curious, did MINDEF confirm this for a fact ? Or just rely on a website. 

[inlinesix]

the 2nd and 3rd reason, tbh is damn flimsy and arbitrary. 

 

The first reason - I'm just curious, did MINDEF confirm this for a fact ? Or just rely on a website. 

 

Honestly, these jokers are blind 1.

https://www.fulhamfc.com/player-profiles/ben-davis

 

 

Biography

Ben Davis is the Club’s first scholar to hail from Singapore. His family is based in Harrow and he was spotted in a scouting mission at an international tournament in Singapore which also revealed hisBritish heritage.

Davis made 10 appearances for the Young Whites in midfield in his first season at the Club. He had a pass accuracy of 90%, and scored a storming header away at West Ham United to put Fulham briefly ahead. He made 13 tackles in his 10 matches and 16 interceptions.

He has been called up to the Singapore National Team for international duty, however, is yet to make an appearance.

 

 

[Fcw75]

But it's stated his nationality is English.