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Ben Davis not allowed to defer NS for Fulham stint

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Do athletes enjoy automatic diplomatic status? But even if they do, any country sending their mission overseas needs to seek the host nation approval right? 

Ben Davis should never be given clearance to land on sg soil to play in a world cup (should that come to pass). If he does, he should be arrested as a defaulter. Otherwise the gahmen will lose all credibility. 

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49 minutes ago, Turboflat4 said:

Do athletes enjoy automatic diplomatic status? But even if they do, any country sending their mission overseas needs to seek the host nation approval right? 

Ben Davis should never be given clearance to land on sg soil to play in a world cup (should that come to pass). If he does, he should be arrested as a defaulter. Otherwise the gahmen will lose all credibility. 

Seriously doubt athletes get diplomatic status.

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1 hour ago, Tianmo said:

Born in Thailand to a British father and a Thai mother.  Moved to SG at age 5,  became citizen 4 yrs later at age 9. 

From age 9 to 15, make use of his SG citizenship to get subsidies education in local school.  Enrolled into sports school as a citizen paying citizen rate.  Move to UK before completing his DSA obligations in DSA admission to sports schools. 

Called up to represent SG but not filled. 

Refuse to serve NS. 

So how local is Ben Davis?  Besides making used of SG to give him subsidies education and football training by means of a citizenship,  isn't he just another imported FT given citizenship? 

At least those imported FT players given citizenship did their part for SG.  Ben Davis? 

It's quite common for gov to even things out, you became citizen with an agenda. You will have to pay for it in some way. Serve NS to offset what you have gain as a citizen,  fair enough? 

Here we have an imported FT,  making use of SG as a stepping board,  enjoying benefits of local born citizens,  but not willing to perform duty of a local citizen. 

And now he is saying he had not feeling and no attachment to SG.  Well we cannot fault him for saying so,  because SG was always only being made use of as a stepping borad and a bridge . 

And we have locals cheering for him.  Can someone explain to me why? 

Are we really so happy to be made suckers? And cheer for ppl who make us look like suckers? 

Ben Davis a local football talent?  Really? Seriously? 

I didn't know the background of Ben until you mention it. Anyway, he is creating too much news for himself. If he has decided to give up Singapore citizenship then I think the best is to just leave quietly. This country has provided the environment for him to grow and develop into what he is today. I do not know if he will become successful if he grew up in Thailand.

Such interview serves no purpose. It makes him look petty and reinforce Mindef's decision not to grant him a deferment. 

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Aiya, ai lai mai suah. Talk so much c0ck for what?

 

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1 hour ago, Turboflat4 said:

Do athletes enjoy automatic diplomatic status? But even if they do, any country sending their mission overseas needs to seek the host nation approval right? 

Ben Davis should never be given clearance to land on sg soil to play in a world cup (should that come to pass). If he does, he should be arrested as a defaulter. Otherwise the gahmen will lose all credibility. 

Personally i doubt athletes enjoy automatic diplomatic status, am I am not too sure if they need host nation approval when sending their mission overseas. I think it is the countries' responsibilities to find out if any of their athletes are not fit to travel into the host country, and the duty of the athletes to declare if they have such issue.

Ben Davis is wanted by MINDEF, not by the police as a criminal, so I am not sure if other countries can trace that.  If he can arrive, play and leave without MINDEF knowing, he could be safe, but I believe his name is already blacklisted as "wanted by MINDEF" in the immigration system already. MINDEF would likely be notify the moment he print his boarding pass or board the plane to SG. 

But I dont know what will happen if he use say a passport from Kenya instead of one from SG/UK/Thai. [:p]

And yah, I agree with you that the moment he lands, he sld be arrested as a MINDEF defaulter and he likely would be arrested by MPs,  no 2 ways ard it..[laugh][laugh][laugh]

Edited by Tianmo
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26 minutes ago, Gizmore said:

I didn't know the background of Ben until you mention it. Anyway, he is creating too much news for himself. If he has decided to give up Singapore citizenship then I think the best is to just leave quietly. This country has provided the environment for him to grow and develop into what he is today. I do not know if he will become successful if he grew up in Thailand.

Such interview serves no purpose. It makes him look petty and reinforce Mindef's decision not to grant him a deferment. 

I didnt want to mention too much earlier because I understand how our local Football fans feel towards the incident. Not easy for a football talent to come by, but even after so much has surface, and i still see ppl supporting him. Even  wanted to see him beat SG as a thai, playing for Thailand. 

Facts are facts, I hope ppl have cooled down enough to see the facts and agenda. But if they are still happy to be suckers, and cheering for ppl who make them suckers. Well, everyone is entitle to their own right.[laugh][laugh][laugh]

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While this guy is talented, it's far too obvious that he and his family have been milking SG, while always on the lookout for which or what or where can benefit him/them most. Nothing fundamentally wrong, normally, as that's human nature.
But it just shows that there is a problem with our system that can allow 2 foreigners, who likely contributed little/nothing to SG, to come enjoy this country for more than a decade, and in the mean time extending the benefit to the son, who despite becoming a (converted) citizen, still can play for another country, plus plays club football at a third country claiming to be a local there.

Thailand no need serve NS meh? Or is it they have too many males so dun need so many?

And how many passport does he possess? To be able to claim the above?

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2 hours ago, Tianmo said:

Born in Thailand to a British father and a Thai mother.  Moved to SG at age 5,  became citizen 4 yrs later at age 9. 

From age 9 to 15, make use of his SG citizenship to get subsidies education in local school.  Enrolled into sports school as a citizen paying citizen rate.  Move to UK before completing his DSA obligations in DSA admission to sports schools. 

Called up to represent SG but not filled. 

Refuse to serve NS. 

So how local is Ben Davis?  Besides making used of SG to give him subsidies education and football training by means of a citizenship,  isn't he just another imported FT given citizenship? 

At least those imported FT players given citizenship did their part for SG.  Ben Davis? 

It's quite common for gov to even things out, you became citizen with an agenda. You will have to pay for it in some way. Serve NS to offset what you have gain as a citizen,  fair enough? 

Here we have an imported FT,  making use of SG as a stepping board,  enjoying benefits of local born citizens,  but not willing to perform duty of a local citizen. 

And now he is saying he had not feeling and no attachment to SG.  Well we cannot fault him for saying so,  because SG was always only being made use of as a stepping borad and a bridge . 

And we have locals cheering for him.  Can someone explain to me why? 

Are we really so happy to be made suckers? And cheer for ppl who make us look like suckers? 

Ben Davis a local football talent?  Really? Seriously? 

This is pretty much correct. He has barely any links to Singapore other than he studied here for a while. Frankly how did he get Singapore citizenship in the first place when neither of his parents are Singaporean and he was not born here.

But it's a globalised world now. Multiple nationalities are getting more and more common as barriers are broken down and people travel and inter-cultural marriages happen (Heck even Fandi married a South African). We cannot possibly tie down every single person who has an ounce of link to Singapore and force them to declare loyalty, when they have no intention to. That's just wrong IMO.

For me I think in situations like this, we need to be fair and give them the choice. Before enlistment ask them a question, "Do you intend to stay loyal to Singapore?" If the answer is no, they have to submit a plan to MINDEF detailing what their intentions are r.e. emigration, and they have to execute based on the timeline given (has to be reasonable, within five years for example). If they don't follow this plan then immediately enlist them to NS. If they do end up migrating then their Singapore citizenship is void.

Loyalty cannot be forced. It never ends well. I think we should just let him go and wish him well. No point being bitter and petty about it, or worse, claim credit.

Edited by Benarsenal
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9 hours ago, PSP415 said:

Frankly, what's there to shame Singapore for?

He's always had the option to change citizenship. 

We wish him well but we are not at his mercy to be proud or ashamed. 

You elevated him too high. Its just football. Not god or saviour to our well being.

So many promising and aspiring Singaporean sportsmen to bring us greater glory. And these are true blue citizens.

We should cherish these and let them excel. Not someone who dangled a pair of boots that's really nowhere anywhere yet. 

No fame especially in sports is forever. Everyone grows old and gets replaced. 

Still, its his personal decision to represent whoever can give him the opportunity to excel in his love for the game. That decision may change if he should decide another country can up the opportunity for him. Who knows what the future holds.

No shame at all. 

He's only 1 NS defaulter. Always be remembered as such. By me.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/footballer-ben-davis-no-plans-return-singapore-thailand-fulham-11995954

Read carefully. Even if he gets deferment from serving NS, he's NOT representing Singapore but England.

How's that for so called impression of playing to represent Singapore. No intention.

Besides he's got NO REGRETS and always felt in his blood he belongs to these 2 countries, England and Thailand.

And he's playing for Thailand because it will make his mother happy.

Period.

What shame to Singapore? Aiyo.

Safe ride

Cheers 

 

 

I believe someone here mentioned before why he has use his English nationality to play for Fulham.

You must 1 of those ill informed ppl that don't know English football.

By the way, he can't give up his Singapore passport without serving NS.

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1 minute ago, Davidtch said:

By the way, he can't give up his Singapore passport without serving NS.

so, is he a Thai now since he can play for Thai national team?

spore does not allow dual nationality ... thai allow?

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7 minutes ago, Benarsenal said:

This is pretty much correct. He has barely any links to Singapore other than he studied here for a while. Frankly how did he get Singapore citizenship in the first place when neither of his parents are Singaporean and he was not born here.

But it's a globalised world now. Multiple nationalities are getting more and more common as barriers are broken down and people travel and inter-cultural marriages happen (Heck even Fandi married a South African). We cannot possibly tie down every single person who has an ounce of link to Singapore and force them to declare loyalty, when they have no intention to. That's just wrong IMO.

For me I think in situations like this, we need to be fair and give them the choice. Before enlistment ask them a question, "Do you intend to stay loyal to Singapore?" If the answer is no, they have to submit a plan to MINDEF detailing what their intentions are r.e. emigration, and they have to execute based on the timeline given (has to be reasonable, within five years for example). If they don't follow this plan then immediately enlist them to NS. If they do end up migrating then their Singapore citizenship is void.

Loyalty cannot be forced. It never ends well.

the way u are phrasing is like he or his parents dun know he will need to fulfill his ns obligations if he carry on leeching off sg at young age. which i dun believe so .

Edited by Beregond

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2 hours ago, Tianmo said:

Born in Thailand to a British father and a Thai mother.  Moved to SG at age 5,  became citizen 4 yrs later at age 9. 

From age 9 to 15, make use of his SG citizenship to get subsidies education in local school.  Enrolled into sports school as a citizen paying citizen rate.  Move to UK before completing his DSA obligations in DSA admission to sports schools. 

Called up to represent SG but not filled. 

Refuse to serve NS. 

So how local is Ben Davis?  Besides making used of SG to give him subsidies education and football training by means of a citizenship,  isn't he just another imported FT given citizenship? 

At least those imported FT players given citizenship did their part for SG.  Ben Davis? 

It's quite common for gov to even things out, you became citizen with an agenda. You will have to pay for it in some way. Serve NS to offset what you have gain as a citizen,  fair enough? 

Here we have an imported FT,  making use of SG as a stepping board,  enjoying benefits of local born citizens,  but not willing to perform duty of a local citizen. 

And now he is saying he had not feeling and no attachment to SG.  Well we cannot fault him for saying so,  because SG was always only being made use of as a stepping borad and a bridge . 

And we have locals cheering for him.  Can someone explain to me why? 

Are we really so happy to be made suckers? And cheer for ppl who make us look like suckers? 

Ben Davis a local football talent?  Really? Seriously? 

His older brother completed his NS.

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1 minute ago, Wt_know said:

so, is he a Thai now since he can play for Thai national team?

spore does not allow dual nationality ... thai allow?

In fact, he has 3 nationalities.  Maybe Thailand allows it since he is not adult yet.

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1 minute ago, Beregond said:

the way u are phrasing is like he or his parents dun know he will need to fulfill his ns obligations if he carry on leeching off sg at young age. which i dun believe so .

Whether they know or don't know, I don't think it's fair to tie down someone who has no intention of being loyal.

They've clearly believed that being Singaporean is detrimental to his football career (which it is). So let them go la. We have no rights to claim him now.

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1 minute ago, Benarsenal said:

Whether they know or don't know, I don't think it's fair to tie down someone who has no intention of being loyal.

They've clearly believed that being Singaporean is detrimental to his football career (which it is). So let them go la. We have no rights to claim him now.

but the point is ns obligations got nothing to do with loyal.

its like u own me money, then u pay me back money, u can dun like me.

he own singapore ns, then he should do his ns and get out.

he knew when he come to live in sg as a kid that he need to do ns. just that suddenly soccer come out and become important for him.

and he decided no, he is not paying back what he own, he want soccer first. 

if u ask me if i want him to be a singapore citizen even if he serve his ns?? i say no, cos like u say he is not loyal.

but i still want him to pay back what he own sg. that is his ns obligations

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7 minutes ago, Davidtch said:

I believe someone here mentioned before why he has use his English nationality to play for Fulham.

You must 1 of those ill informed ppl that don't know English football.

By the way, he can't give up his Singapore passport without serving NS.

Nonetheless, he cannot represent Singapore at all.

That's a fact isn't it? 

The Club's rules must be followed but our country's laws can be ignored?

At the end of the day, he's still a NS defaulter to me regardless his success or failure.

Safe ride

Cheers 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Benarsenal said:

This is pretty much correct. He has barely any links to Singapore other than he studied here for a while. Frankly how did he get Singapore citizenship in the first place when neither of his parents are Singaporean and he was not born here.

But it's a globalised world now. Multiple nationalities are getting more and more common as barriers are broken down and people travel and inter-cultural marriages happen (Heck even Fandi married a South African). We cannot possibly tie down every single person who has an ounce of link to Singapore and force them to declare loyalty, when they have no intention to. That's just wrong IMO.

For me I think in situations like this, we need to be fair and give them the choice. Before enlistment ask them a question, "Do you intend to stay loyal to Singapore?" If the answer is no, they have to submit a plan to MINDEF detailing what their intentions are r.e. emigration, and they have to execute based on the timeline given (has to be reasonable, within five years for example). If they don't follow this plan then immediately enlist them to NS. If they do end up migrating then their Singapore citizenship is void.

Loyalty cannot be forced. It never ends well. I think we should just let him go and wish him well. No point being bitter and petty about it, or worse, claim credit.

How he gotten his citizenship is beyond us, I would also be interested to know the reason if it can surface.

Nope, I dont think anyone is forcing his loyalty, rather he has a duty to fulfill and he is running away from it. He is free to revoke his SG citizenship and become whatever citizen he likes, but before he can do that, he needs to serve NS. 

I dont think he is important enough for MINDEF to have to have him set up a plan for MINDEF to monitor. When he became citizen, there is an oath he needs to take, being under age, his parents  would have taken the oath on his behalf, and it is their duty to relate the oath to him when he grow up.  If I am not wrong, staying loyal is not an option in the oath. 

After enjoying all the benefits of a citizen, with no intention to serve this country, I think it is fair to serve NS in return. After that he can revoke his SG citizenship, nobody going to really bother.

Nobody is holding him back, he can go, but he needs to fulfill his obligation to serve NS. This is quite straight forward.

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18 minutes ago, Davidtch said:

His older brother completed his NS.

And nobody bother with his older brother, his older brother can do whatever he wants. If he choose to stay here, he is always welcome. 

Edited by Tianmo
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