LTA buys electric buses from China

[Victor68]

BYD cars are here for quite a while. Still plenty rooms for improvement but it is the way to go for sure. I will give them another 5 years before more EV on the road in Sg. Trump will help to speed things up. Haha

[Beregond]

BYD cars are here for quite a while. Still plenty rooms for improvement but it is the way to go for sure. I will give them another 5 years before more EV on the road in Sg. Trump will help to speed things up. Haha

end of the day the deciding factor is still cost.

 

for example if LTA  can get a similar vehicle from say germany at same price or say even 200% of china make. i think they would go for a more atas brand.

 

in LTA case they not buying 1 , but a fleet, say 300% x 20 bus??

really need to think.

 

and for alot of equipment u strip down, u realise they using china spare parts also.

i myself have 1 very branded pcs of equipment a USA brand with damn long history ,

make in china also.

( brought 10 years ago , thinking of replacing )

now china produce the same pcs of equipment at 1/3 the price with a  more atas look and even more function.

 

u say i should buy which 1.

[Ysc3]

end of the day the deciding factor is still cost.

 

conclusive.

[13177]

What's so special about them?

 

Front looks damn ugly.

Like 1970s buses. 

Bus doesnt look comfortable? The wheel and the design of the bus reminds of the current Scania KUB bus, which ride is jerky and unstable.

Edited October 25, 2018 by 13177

[Jman888]

quite a few BYD car and BYD taxi on the road for trial, now move into buses. I dun think they will replace 100% but the trial will see whether it is workable here. I think London did it for few years and drop the idea. 

 

Even if they are able to get 10% of the vehicles replaced with this, it still help to reduce some pollution in the air.

[Beregond]

There's still a difference between products MIC, and products MIC for export. The manufacturing standards and QC are different. Often, it applies even for the same brand, same product, one made for domestic market, one for export, different manufacturing standards. The difference is greater for MIC for foreign brand as the design, R&D, supervision, QC, service, requirements typically follows foreign-brand standards.

 

MIC manufacturers certainly has the ability to do the same, but whether they have the will to do it is another matter, as they may not be required or regulated to do so in the domestic market, so there's little need for them spend $$ to do more. Even if required, there are means to bypass them. 

 

This is also why many Chinese are buying the same brand and same products from HK and overseas although they can get the "same" products locally. Many people made billionaire just doing this kind of daigou business.

u hit the point, 

i source my supply from china

very very true , different brand different QC different standard.

 

not only compare to foreign brand, even within their own country,

 

can only say as a buyer u need to do your homework b4 buying, if u go for the cheapest available in china, confirm u get the lowest quality.

 

but if u do your homework , pay slightly more, u can get the same quality of equipment or even better then those western brand at a faction of their price,

[Victor68]

u hit the point,

i source my supply from china

very very true , different brand different QC different standard.

 

not only compare to foreign brand, even within their own country,

 

can only say as a buyer u need to do your homework b4 buying, if u go for the cheapest available in china, confirm u get the lowest quality.

 

but if u do your homework , pay slightly more, u can get the same quality of equipment or even better then those western brand at a faction of their price,

Do you think the amount you pay will make a difference? If China has 2 different productions, 1 for export and another for home use, the only reason is cost. I have said before, there is alot of technology and quality to send human to space. If you can and are willing to pay, everything is possible. Most people tends to expect china price but european standard. Then you get disappointment.

[1fast1]

it's not just one case if you can bother to consult journal google or have been reading up on byd's domestic historical performance and incidences.

 

You missed my point by a whole yard.

 

You highlighted Tesla's buying of China produced lithium batteries to show a well known electrical car producer's confidence in the product made by Chinese factory.

 

I showed you that the battery is just a component of a whole electrical drivetrain system and it is how well the car is designed with all the firewalls and failsafe in place that determines it's ability to protect it's driver and occupants from catastrophic event of battery failure and explosions.

 

Of course everything improves overtime....I will not volunteer to be the guineapig while it is striving to "improve" when it comes to safety.

 

Just look at how our LTA scholars deal with the exploding /burning PMD (3 year lead time to proper certification?) and you still have the confidence in their choice of source for electric buses? Come, I clap for your blind faith.

and thank you for the volunteer when the electric buses are put in service.

 

This is an anomaly that I bother to engage your rhetorics which is obviously designed to draw controversy. You got me and you can have the last word.

 

I'll say more in private when I praise you. Cheers bro.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Turboflat4

[Watwheels]

For now it's difficult to say who is good or no good.

 

There are things like battery technology we know is not moving fast enough. Eletricity storage is ok but the charging is still feeling like it takes a long time to recharge.

 

Anyway the battery slow moving tech actually allows other EV makers to catch up. Whether thru collaboration with other car makers or with battery makers. As long as the car makers have their existing infrastructure it's just a matter of time they get thiings up to speed.

 

Let me share an interesting video I came across. This company reverse engineer electric vehicles to see who has the good stuff and is going in the right direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj1a8rdX6DU

[inlinesix]

it's not just one case if you can bother to consult journal google or have been reading up on byd's domestic historical performance and incidences.

 

You missed my point by a whole yard.

 

You highlighted Tesla's buying of China produced lithium batteries to show a well known electrical car producer's confidence in the product made by Chinese factory.

 

I showed you that the battery is just a component of a whole electrical drivetrain system and it is how well the car is designed with all the firewalls and failsafe in place that determines it's ability to protect it's driver and occupants from catastrophic event of battery failure and explosions.

 

Of course everything improves overtime....I will not volunteer to be the guineapig while it is striving to "improve" when it comes to safety.

 

Just look at how our LTA scholars deal with the exploding /burning PMD (3 year lead time to proper certification?) and you still have the confidence in their choice of source for electric buses? Come, I clap for your blind faith.

and thank you for the volunteer when the electric buses are put in service.

 

This is an anomaly that I bother to engage your rhetorics which is obviously designed to draw controversy. You got me and you can have the last word.

 

Till today, LTA has not issue anything on disposal of non-compliance PMD.

 

Spring Singapore/SCDF also stays silent on this matter.

[DACH]

Except we don't have nuclear power plant for "clean" cheap electricity. China is the fastest growing in nuclear power.

 

I wonder if they are going to tax heavily on these electric buses, as what they did for the Tesla car incident.

If not, it's double standards. 

[Victor68]

A few years ago, I met some engineers from aviation industry and they told me why the ownself made ownself commercial jets couldn't sell. They said the manufacturing standards were so poor, one component taken from one plane cannot fit into another plane of the same model. Of course, outside everything looks swee swee.

 

Of course, the other way to look at it is every plane is "hand-made" quality. And hand made is good right ?

It is very hard to believe the situation is still the same for most of the high tech items manufactured from china today.

 

If they are producing things so cheaply to flood the European market, why could they produce for their local market? Those products you refer to are not from the same source but 3rd party counterfeit. Depending on how much one wants to pay, even counterfeits have many levels.

[Victor68]

Counterfeit commercial jets ??

I am not referring to specific product. Just happen to chance upon your post as a reference. What I am trying to say here is, China today produces many high quality products. It is all about how much consumers are willing to pay. Many such products actually go into the final branded products we all happily accepted. So, if technology and skill are not an issue, why would their local products be inferior? The only reason is cost. 

 

Your jet story I am not familiar because i have no dealing in that aspect. I am sure producing a jet is very high tech. Are you referring to finishes or fittings of the jet?

[Lala81]

I just left the carpark behind a BYD with normal plate as well.

I was doing a double take to see if i saw correctly.

 

I saw a BYD e6 on our roads. Passenger car  with regular plate, not the RD research and development multi-coloured plate.  I dunno the price.

 

 

[Sunny]

i only hope they shorten the f**king long bus routes with the electric buses

[Ysc3]

I am not referring to specific product. Just happen to chance upon your post as a reference. What I am trying to say here is, China today produces many high quality products. It is all about how much consumers are willing to pay. Many such products actually go into the final branded products we all happily accepted. So, if technology and skill are not an issue, why would their local products be inferior? The only reason is cost. 

 

Your jet story I am not familiar because i have no dealing in that aspect. I am sure producing a jet is very high tech. Are you referring to finishes or fittings of the jet?

 

china has multiple standards of produce and products.

 

food for one, they have domestic and export "quality" too.

 

food like rice for the domestic market is of lower quality than export market.

 

then again, there is also the thieves market, where unusable or counterfeit "reputable" items are being sold to unsuspecting buyers at super cheap prices.

i only hope they shorten the f**king long bus routes with the electric buses

 

this will be the chicken and egg story again.

[Lala81]

Putting various well-spec components together and designing and building a new product from scratch is quite different. One is following somebody's else standard, make some customization and put together a product. The other is to create something which is unavailable or can't easily copy or buy off the market - e.g. aviation engine, control systems, advanced chips, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, I buy a lot of China products, China brands, many of which are high quality if you know what/where to get. Especially for some of the technology which are already quite mature in the market, simple design, they can copy quite well with cheap and fairly reliable parts and selling at very good prices. Sometimes, I may even modify them with a few Japanese components so they become more reliable, if it's simple enough and not too many SMD or SOC components. If you are selling these products and have the know how, you may want to specify to them your requirements using better, more reliable components. 

 

Coming to the topic, I think SG is lacking in expertise to build things from scratch or at least able to understand the inner workings of technology we are buying. When you buy something you don't understand, it's just a black box, and all you can do is keep pestering the manufacturer to provide this, provide that, just say only. When they don't deliver, you also just say only.

 

I think most modern people have no idea on how technology works. 

 

But it's not surprising. We don't have the space or time to tinker. Given we are in a city state.

Also our tendency in the future would delve more with like digital products and ideas, cos we simply don't have the inclination or space to do otherwise.

 

For eg., the car enthusiasts overseas, have the time, space (garage) and space to put so many tools to maintain or do stuff to their cars.

 

In singapore, the flats are only this size. Shaped by our environment.

[Sosaria]

China products are catching up in quality. One example that is world leading in technology and never fail ... surveillance cameras and all sorts of big brother tech.