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https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2020/07/31/rm10bil-rts-link-to-go-ahead

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Malaysia – through the Transport Ministry – will be forking out RM3.715bil or 39% of the total cost of the 4km link project, with the balance to be borne by Singapore.

Meaning SG fork out 61%, JB 39%. 

We pay more to benefit Johorians more, make it easier for them to come in here for work & studies, and for Sinkies to go over to spend SGD. Depot moved to JB, jobs created in JB. 

On the surface, all I can see is that its obvious Malaysia side stands to benefit more from this and yet we're paying a lot more. 

Can someone explain to me where else does SG stand to gain from this? Make it easier for Sinkies to retire in JB next time, GLCs to earn from this project? 

 

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3 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2020/07/31/rm10bil-rts-link-to-go-ahead

Meaning SG fork out 61%, JB 39%. 

We pay more to benefit Johorians more, make it easier for them to come in here for work & studies, and for Sinkies to go over to spend SGD. Depot moved to JB, jobs created in JB. 

On the surface, all I can see is that its obvious Malaysia side stands to benefit more from this and yet we're paying a lot more. 

Can someone explain to me where else does SG stand to gain from this? Make it easier for Sinkies to retire in JB next time, GLCs to earn from this project? 

 

Well if u look at the negatives, but there's also pros.

i) Less congestion means easier/cheaper for goods to come in to feed and grow singapore's needs.
ii) It reduces inflation for the general consumer by allowing malaysians to come in and work the low end service jobs. F&B etc in particular for hawker centers/food courts. Whether u find the undesired side effect of limiting pay for less educated Singaporeans in these roles as an acceptable trade off, this is still fact.
iii) In a way it does increase singapore's talent pool and replace some of the ethnic malaysian/singaporean chinese population 
- Ease of coming to singapore pri/sec schools to study will make it easier for Johorean chinese students to integrate into malaysian society. It's much higher chance they will turn to become new citizens when they become adults and work here.

And Singapore's competitive edge now in the new world will be trying to harness the inefficient SEA into a more tangible bloc. Politically it's very difficult.
If we don't want to be subsumed by the Chinese/American conflict, trying to maximize more intra-Asean and Asean-rest of the world trade is necessary.
SG-MY is still historically the closest interdependent ties between any of the Asean states. 

We have always maximised the use of the "wasted" potential of the Malaysian populace's chinese/indian to much lesser degree. This just a further extension of that. 

 

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With a delay of two years, from MRT to LRT and we pay about two third of the cost, depot in JB. How do they add up? How does the project benefit Sg?

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1 hour ago, Lala81 said:

Well if u look at the negatives, but there's also pros.

i) Less congestion means easier/cheaper for goods to come in to feed and grow singapore's needs.
ii) It reduces inflation for the general consumer by allowing malaysians to come in and work the low end service jobs. F&B etc in particular for hawker centers/food courts. Whether u find the undesired side effect of limiting pay for less educated Singaporeans in these roles as an acceptable trade off, this is still fact.
iii) In a way it does increase singapore's talent pool and replace some of the ethnic malaysian/singaporean chinese population 
- Ease of coming to singapore pri/sec schools to study will make it easier for Johorean chinese students to integrate into malaysian society. It's much higher chance they will turn to become new citizens when they become adults and work here.

And Singapore's competitive edge now in the new world will be trying to harness the inefficient SEA into a more tangible bloc. Politically it's very difficult.
If we don't want to be subsumed by the Chinese/American conflict, trying to maximize more intra-Asean and Asean-rest of the world trade is necessary.
SG-MY is still historically the closest interdependent ties between any of the Asean states. 

We have always maximised the use of the "wasted" potential of the Malaysian populace's chinese/indian to much lesser degree. This just a further extension of that. 

 

Good points raised. 

i) Less congestion means easier/cheaper for goods to come in to feed and grow singapore's needs

Those riding in will still prefer to ride in than waste time transitioning. Probably RTS may reduce those making the daily commute using private cars and buses. If RTS can reduce this group, then yes goods coming in will be easier for sure. But whether it will really become cheaper or not is a tough call, businesses won't necessarily pass on cost savings back to the market. 😁

ii) It reduces inflation for the general consumer by allowing malaysians to come in and work the low end service jobs

I don't disagree purely from the economic perspective. The downside is there is a political price that the govt of the day has to pay. This comes back again to the arguments whether or not to implement min. wages for low end service jobs. I think overall its an issue which is more complicated than just concluding that's its better off for SG to simply pay a Malaysian to do it as it's cheaper. Older or less qualified Singaporeans might want to take these lower end service jobs as well, but businesses will almost always want someone younger and cheaper. Worse still, cost savings from labour won't be passed on to the market anyway. Businesses exist to make profits. At the end of the day, between paying $1500 to a Malaysian or a Singaporean who needs the job badly, I will be biased and say I will prefer that the Singaporean gets it. 

iii) Ease of coming to singapore pri/sec schools to study will make it easier for Johorean chinese students to integrate into malaysian society. It's much higher chance they will turn to become new citizens when they become adults and work here. We have always maximised the use of the "wasted" potential of the Malaysian populace's chinese/indian to much lesser degree. This just a further extension of that. 

I will combine both of your points made here as I think its interlinked. The brain drain from Malaysia to SG isn't new, and if we make it easier for them to come in, then yes we're assured that there is a chance that the better of them will continue to come to us. It's a fallacy to think that they will develop a greater incentive to take up citizenship though. Unless we tightened up our criteria for PR significantly, many Malaysians will prefer to have the best of both worlds. I know I would if I'm one of them. It will take more convincing for them to commit wholeheartedly, when the whole point to come here is just to earn enough and retire comfortably back home. Again, there's a political price that the govt of the day has to pay.  

iv) Singapore's competitive edge now in the new world will be trying to harness the inefficient SEA into a more tangible bloc. SG-MY is still historically the closest interdependent ties between any of the Asean states

Logical point here. As you said, it's not as easy as it sounds simply for SG to initiate and expect other ASEAN countries to co-operate. EU bloc right now is in conflict, and their union is arguably to have a greater chance to stand the test of time due to the backdrop of being more culturally similar and closely connected by both land and currency. ASEAN is still pretty much separated by starker differences in cultures, political ideologies and geographical limitations. So in all, I think it's fat hope that SG can hope to leverage more from ASEAN, which at the first place is a pretty weak union if one is to examine the fundamentals. Richest GDP per capital nation like SG is expected to pay more to gain just a little more, is this the only way forward? I'm sure its not the right way in the long run but it may seem to be the easier way in the short term. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lethalstrike
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17 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

Good points raised. 

i) Less congestion means easier/cheaper for goods to come in to feed and grow singapore's needs

Those riding in will still prefer to ride in than waste time transitioning. Probably RTS may reduce those making the daily commute using private cars and buses. If RTS can reduce this group, then yes goods coming in will be easier for sure. But whether it will really become cheaper or not is a tough call, businesses won't necessarily pass on cost savings back to the market. 😁

ii) It reduces inflation for the general consumer by allowing malaysians to come in and work the low end service jobs

I don't disagree purely from the economic perspective. The downside is there is a political price that the govt of the day has to pay. This comes back again to the arguments whether or not to implement min. wages for low end service jobs. I think overall its an issue which is more complicated than just concluding that's its better off for SG to simply pay a Malaysian to do it as it's cheaper. Older or less qualified Singaporeans might want to take these lower end service jobs as well, but businesses will almost always want someone younger and cheaper. Worse still, cost savings from labour won't be passed on to the market anyway. Businesses exist to make profits. At the end of the day, between paying $1500 to a Malaysian or a Singaporean who needs the job badly, I will be biased and say I will prefer that the Singaporean gets it. 

iii) Ease of coming to singapore pri/sec schools to study will make it easier for Johorean chinese students to integrate into malaysian society. It's much higher chance they will turn to become new citizens when they become adults and work here. We have always maximised the use of the "wasted" potential of the Malaysian populace's chinese/indian to much lesser degree. This just a further extension of that. 

I will combine both of your points made here as I think its interlinked. The brain drain from Malaysia to SG isn't new, and if we make it easier for them to come in, then yes we're assured that there is a chance that the better of them will continue to come to us. It's a fallacy to think that they will develop a greater incentive to take up citizenship though. Unless we tightened up our criteria for PR significantly, many Malaysians will prefer to have the best of both worlds. I know I would if I'm one of them. It will take more convincing for them to commit wholeheartedly, when the whole point to come here is just to earn enough and retire comfortably back home. Again, there's a political price that the govt of the day has to pay.  

iv) Singapore's competitive edge now in the new world will be trying to harness the inefficient SEA into a more tangible bloc. SG-MY is still historically the closest interdependent ties between any of the Asean states

Logical point here. As you said, it's not as easy as it sounds simply for SG to initiate and expect other ASEAN countries to co-operate. EU bloc right now is in conflict, and their union is arguably to have a greater chance to stand the test of time due to the backdrop of being more culturally similar and closely connected by both land and currency. ASEAN is still pretty much separated by starker differences in cultures, political ideologies and geographical limitations. So in all, I think it's fat hope that SG can hope to leverage more from ASEAN, which at the first place is a pretty weak union if one is to examine the fundamentals. Richest GDP per capital nation like SG is expected to pay more to gain just a little more, is this the only way forward? I'm sure its not the right way in the long run but it may seem to be the easier way in the short term. 

 

Well. Whether they want to remain both have to see lor. Just like there are MCFers here who are born in MY and are now citizens. Obviously u can pick and choose if u are truly a global citizen. But if you don't want to have too many PRC origin ethnic chinese, and with our low birth rates, who else is there to replace the ageing boomers?
Our population is only going to get older = less economically productive, more expensive.

 

We can never hope to have an European union kind of scenario in our geopolitical situation here in SEA. Anyway promoting closer ties within Asean has many benefits lah. We are really too young to understand what a fragmented SEA means.
The 60s and 70s had really a lot of problems within Asean countries. Indonesia vs Malaysia. Konfrantasi. The Cambodia/Vietnam/Laos issues with communism and post Vietnam war etc. There are many minor incidents also along the way. Border confrontations/stand offs.
We've come a long way from the last 50 years. At the very least, peace in the neighborhood is good for business. Even if we don't progress to the next level. But I think if we look at the negatives only, you will never be able to see the potential of the vision. At the very least, a stable Asean provides a wider Asean marketplace. 

 

With globalisation, even partial reversal in this new cold war, it's unlikely that our small domestic size and hence economy, will be able to get by without becoming even more globalised. 
We have to be relevant to the world. Or else MNCs just won't bother with us. Especially since China is now the engine of growth in Asia/world.
SEA is the only natural strategic advantage that no one can take away from us. And the fact we have 600million people combined (albeit many poor and in agricultural roles).

 

The opposition have to also wise up to the fact is that SINGAPORE INC is necessary. Or else they will never be a convincing back up driver. Cos many of them just talk like money drops from the sky. I feel that over time, Singaporeans have forgotten that our state is by necessity, SINGAPORE INC, where we always welcome business and economic opportunity. 

 

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Anyway to me. I feel that when u have better transport links between 2 economically close regions/cities, it's usually a win-win for both.

I'm no economics student. So that's just my basic understanding of world/20th century history.

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Twincharged

It’s a win win only if my tax payer dollars don’t go to line a Malaysian Officials pocket. 

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2 hours ago, Lala81 said:

Anyway to me. I feel that when u have better transport links between 2 economically close regions/cities, it's usually a win-win for both.

I'm no economics student. So that's just my basic understanding of world/20th century history.

Neither am I. 

I'm just a layman and keyboard warrior, else I will be running for elections 😁😂

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4 hours ago, Lala81 said:

 

Well. Whether they want to remain both have to see lor. Just like there are MCFers here who are born in MY and are now citizens. Obviously u can pick and choose if u are truly a global citizen. But if you don't want to have too many PRC origin ethnic chinese, and with our low birth rates, who else is there to replace the ageing boomers?
Our population is only going to get older = less economically productive, more expensive.

 

We can never hope to have an European union kind of scenario in our geopolitical situation here in SEA. Anyway promoting closer ties within Asean has many benefits lah. We are really too young to understand what a fragmented SEA means.
The 60s and 70s had really a lot of problems within Asean countries. Indonesia vs Malaysia. Konfrantasi. The Cambodia/Vietnam/Laos issues with communism and post Vietnam war etc. There are many minor incidents also along the way. Border confrontations/stand offs.
We've come a long way from the last 50 years. At the very least, peace in the neighborhood is good for business. Even if we don't progress to the next level. But I think if we look at the negatives only, you will never be able to see the potential of the vision. At the very least, a stable Asean provides a wider Asean marketplace. 

 

With globalisation, even partial reversal in this new cold war, it's unlikely that our small domestic size and hence economy, will be able to get by without becoming even more globalised. 
We have to be relevant to the world. Or else MNCs just won't bother with us. Especially since China is now the engine of growth in Asia/world.
SEA is the only natural strategic advantage that no one can take away from us. And the fact we have 600million people combined (albeit many poor and in agricultural roles).

 

The opposition have to also wise up to the fact is that SINGAPORE INC is necessary. Or else they will never be a convincing back up driver. Cos many of them just talk like money drops from the sky. I feel that over time, Singaporeans have forgotten that our state is by necessity, SINGAPORE INC, where we always welcome business and economic opportunity. 

 


I agree sg inc is necessary

But all I see is bad news everywhere 

they really got to deliver

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On 7/31/2020 at 12:48 PM, Lethalstrike said:

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2020/07/31/rm10bil-rts-link-to-go-ahead

Meaning SG fork out 61%, JB 39%. 

We pay more to benefit Johorians more, make it easier for them to come in here for work & studies, and for Sinkies to go over to spend SGD. Depot moved to JB, jobs created in JB. 

On the surface, all I can see is that its obvious Malaysia side stands to benefit more from this and yet we're paying a lot more. 

Can someone explain to me where else does SG stand to gain from this? Make it easier for Sinkies to retire in JB next time, GLCs to earn from this project? 

 

Look at broader perspectives and long term.

 

For example, our govt might use this for negotiate on the water treaty, as part of the 61% share payment, or they plan to use it for further negotiations. 

And it might also impact on the car toll fee charged for Malaysian cars.

 

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On 7/31/2020 at 12:48 PM, Lethalstrike said:

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2020/07/31/rm10bil-rts-link-to-go-ahead

Meaning SG fork out 61%, JB 39%. 

We pay more to benefit Johorians more, make it easier for them to come in here for work & studies, and for Sinkies to go over to spend SGD. Depot moved to JB, jobs created in JB. 

On the surface, all I can see is that its obvious Malaysia side stands to benefit more from this and yet we're paying a lot more. 

Can someone explain to me where else does SG stand to gain from this? Make it easier for Sinkies to retire in JB next time, GLCs to earn from this project? 

 

Aiya must see long  term. We want to friend friend with jb and my also ma.  Show our 大方loh.

We are richer. And if paying  abit more can further  improve  our relationship its money  well spend.  Better then on some stupid  bins or event right.

I only hope  this my pm stay on for long time.😂

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Supercharged

When there's some consistency from the other side, and we can have some level of predictability of our opponent, then it's easier to deal with. Unlike when Lao Ma was PM, even best laid plan gets thrown out the window.

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Twincharged
1 hour ago, Beregond said:

Aiya must see long  term. We want to friend friend with jb and my also ma.  Show our 大方loh.

We are richer. And if paying  abit more can further  improve  our relationship its money  well spend.  Better then on some stupid  bins or event right.

I only hope  this my pm stay on for long time.😂

Still cheaper than our “donation” to India and China thru failed ventures. 
It’s is still my tax dollars in the end. I fail to see the big picture. Maybe those who think so can contribute more? 
talk is free. 

Edited by Mkl22
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3 hours ago, Didu said:

When there's some consistency from the other side, and we can have some level of predictability of our opponent, then it's easier to deal with. Unlike when Lao Ma was PM, even best laid plan gets thrown out the window.

They .. both sides.. wanna chop chop conclude things before liao ma conne back stir again. 🤣

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