Aloysius Pang dies after SAF trg Ex in New Zealand

[PSP415]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/aloysius-pang-death-2-saf-servicemen-charged-military-court-11768274

 

Justice?

Verdict out?

[Kyrios]

Verdict out?

I think soon....

[RogerNg_185295]

Still too early to conclude whether justice is fair or not. But seems like a jail terms is very likely.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/aloysius-pang-death-2-saf-servicemen-charged-military-court-11768274

2 Men To Be Charged

Justice served?

 

[Spring]

Verdict out?

Just being charged this morning so there will be a military trial n only then verdict will come out. But not sure if media allowed to report on military trial hearing which is normally closed door if not mistaken.

[PSP415]

Just being charged this morning so there will be a military trial n only then verdict will come out. But not sure if media allowed to report on military trial hearing which is normally closed door if not mistaken.

Ok. I asked cos i thought verdict is out and i missed that part of info.

 

Thanks for clarification

 

Safe ride

Cheers

[Watwheels]

 Already mentioned they have found no evidence indicating that the accident was caused by foul play or deliberate acts.

 

​Sentencing will most likely be light.

[Spring]

Already mentioned they have found no evidence indicating that the accident was caused by foul play or deliberate acts.

 

​Sentencing will most likely be light.

They are being charged with combination of defying orders, negligence n rash act but even then if hit with the max sentence, it could be few yrs jail.

[Beregond]

They are being charged with combination of defying orders, negligence n rash act but even then if hit with the max sentence, it could be few yrs jail.

sad case if this 2 is the only 1 being punish .

[Volvobrick]

They are being charged with combination of defying orders, negligence n rash act but even then if hit with the max sentence, it could be few yrs jail.

 

Won't be so long - even drunk drivers killing someone also only 10 months in one case.

 

What it would lead to is possibly NSmen all doing minimal efforts during ICT.  The more they do the more likely something will go wrong, It's just statistics.

[Enye]

just all band together and fail the reservist exercises on the excuse of safety lah

 

let the commanders answer for the failures for a change

 

 

 

[Playtime]

Actually I wonder if the arty scholars even have much hands on experience to understand the ground.

[Dleodleo]

Still too early to conclude whether justice is fair or not. But seems like a jail terms is very likely.

Whatever they do also cannot bring back people's precious son's life. Feel so sad for their parents.

[Kyrios]

Closing finale?

SAF serviceman admits to causing death of Aloysius Pang, fined S$8,000

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/aloysius-pang-nsman-death-court-martial-charged-12106336

Edited November 19, 2019 by Kyrios

[SGMCF328]

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/aloysius-pangs-death-two-saf-servicemen-plead-guilty-in-military-court

Aloysius Pang's death: Two SAF servicemen fined after pleading guilty in military court

SINGAPORE - Two soldiers were sentenced for their roles in the incident leading to the death of actor Aloysius Pang after they pleaded guilty in a military court on Tuesday (Nov 19).

The two men were in the cabin of a Howitzer artillery gun with Pang at the time.

The military court heard that Military Expert 2 (ME2) Ivan Teo Gee Siang, 35, and Third Sergeant (NS) Hubert Wah Yun Teng, 31, failed to ensure Pang was in a safe position during the movement of the Howitzer's gun barrel.

Wah was fined $8,000 and if he does not pay, he will be detained for 40 days. The judge also agreed that he be demoted from Third Sergeant to Corporal.

Teo was fined $7,000 and if he does not pay, he will be detained for 35 days.

[Carbon82]

Again, people get the blame...

I noted from the report that both personnel are charged for failure to activate the emergency stop button.

Teo’s other charge was for failing to activate the emergency stop button before the barrel’s rear hit Pang.

Wah’s SAF Act charge was for failing to activate the emergency stop button before the gun barrel hit Pang.

From safety point of view, while it seems to be a clear cut decision error (both tried to use their hand to hold on to the gun barrel in attempt to stop its movement), BUT is there other factor(s) contributing to this error? I personally think there are!

With reference to ISO13850:2015 Safety of machinery — Emergency stop function — Principles for design,

4.3.2 An emergency stop device shall be located:

• at each operator control station, except where the risk assessment indicates that this is not necessary;
• at other locations, as determined by the risk assessment, e.g.:
• at locations where intervention to the machinery is needed;
• at all places where a man / machine interaction is expected by design;
• The actuator of emergency stop device intended to be actuated by hand should be mounted between 0.6 m and 1.7 m above the access level (e.g. floor level, platform level).

According to the video report from CNA, there are 3 emergency stop button in the entire tank cabin (i.e. at commander post - Wah's position, technician post - Teo's position & next to technician post - Aloysius' position). See for yourself if these location fulfill ISO & IEC 60204-1 requirement (i.e. height - <1.7m, location - natural position / easily accessible, design - standardize and conspicuously marked, etc.). There are also NO emergency stop button on or near the gun barrel (a requirement under ISO13850:2015 standard).

BTW, I used this example for my safety training (case study), not just for "complaining" here in MCF.

[Kusje]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

Again, people get the blame...

I noted from the report that both personnel are charged for failure to activate the emergency stop button.

Teo’s other charge was for failing to activate the emergency stop button before the barrel’s rear hit Pang.

Wah’s SAF Act charge was for failing to activate the emergency stop button before the gun barrel hit Pang.

This failure to active thing is a nonsense charge. It's not as if these 2 folks purposely didn't activate it.

People panic! If I am a panicky person, can I use this as an excuse to be exempted from NS? If the answer is no, then SAF is setting people up to fail.

[Macrosszero]

You need to see it from the other perspective - that some people want to see that punishment is meted out, instead of heaping all the blame on the dead man alone. For the two remaining guys in the Primus cabin, being able to pay off a possible jail term is heaps better than serving time for an accident/misadventure - they aren't likely to ever forget this incident and perhaps that is the best outcome from this unfortunate accident.

[Kusje]

15 minutes ago, Macrosszero said:

You need to see it from the other perspective - that some people want to see that punishment is meted out, instead of heaping all the blame on the dead man alone. For the two remaining guys in the Primus cabin, being able to pay off a possible jail term is heaps better than serving time for an accident/misadventure - they aren't likely to ever forget this incident and perhaps that is the best outcome from this unfortunate accident.

I'm not saying they aren't responsible and weren't negligent. I was specifically referring to the charge of failing to activate the stop button. 

I do think they were negligent. They should have learned to geng instead.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Kusje