2019/2020! Recession coming

[Theoldjaffa]

21 minutes ago, Kusje said:

Cause and effect is right. But what is the cause and what is the effect?

Cause of low wages and lousy work conditions is because we opened the gates for FTs willing to work for low wage and lousy conditions. 

I can bet that if you open the flood gates for FTs to take our PMET jobs, you will also see wages start to fall and other perks (leave, etc) start to go away. Then is it fair?

I won't comment on any hypothetical situation that has not happened and may or may not happen.

I was purely responding to your original reply on low educated Singaporeans.. is it fair that FTs took away their jobs

Which I emphasized in my replies

And that  you've repeatedly tried to drift away from.

I think we can stop here.

[Kusje]

12 minutes ago, Theoldjaffa said:

I won't comment on any hypothetical situation that has not happened and may or may not happen.

I was purely responding to your original reply on low educated Singaporeans.. is it fair that FTs took away their jobs

Which I emphasized in my replies

And that  you've repeatedly tried to drift away from.

I think we can stop here.

It's not fair that FT took their jobs and pushed down their wages.

I would have thought I had been very clear about it. 

[Throttle2]

4 hours ago, Kusje said:

It's not fair that FT took their jobs and pushed down their wages.

I would have thought I had been very clear about it. 

How stable is your job Kusje?

just wondering.  Self assessment share share....

 

 

[Ingenius]

14 hours ago, Kusje said:

Cause and effect is right. But what is the cause and what is the effect?

Cause of low wages and lousy work conditions is because we opened the gates for FTs willing to work for low wage and lousy conditions. 

I can bet that if you open the flood gates for FTs to take our PMET jobs, you will also see wages start to fall and other perks (leave, etc) start to go away. Then is it fair?

It is easy to say FTs take away jobs from locals, but the stark realiy is that the economy needs to fill the void of certain trades like IT specialist to grow our economy, failing which there is nothing even for the locals to thrive in. 

[Ingenius]

Which government in the world will be so stupid to want to purposely bring in foreigners to take away jobs from the locals, depress wages, and as a result lose their popularity and votes? Isn't this moronic if this is what they want to achieve ? Why not leave the labor shortage problem as it is, and let the locals enjoy the artificially created high wages ?  This is only because a responsible and long sighted government knows that long term planning and a sustainable economy that will grow, is the right way to go, albeit a painful one. Without fixing labor shortage to address the need for digitisation, Singapore won't become a financial hub, and we will lose it to other economies which are catching up, nvestment would have gone elsewhere where cost is lower, and there will be no job creation. With artificially high wages due to shortage of labor, we will lose out in terms of value as compared to other countries, and investments will shun us. This is exactly why today, Singapore despite a country with no resources, can thrive and develop into a first world economy with first world per capita income, lowest unemployment rate, low inflation etc. 

 

Before we complain we must look at the big picture. 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Ingenius

[BanCoe]

2 minutes ago, Ingenius said:

Which government in the world will be so stupid to want to purposely bring in foreigners to take away jobs from the locals, depress wages, and as a result lose their popularity and votes? Isn't this moronic if this is what they want to achieve ? Why not leave the labor shortage problem as it is, and let the locals enjoy the artificially created high wages ?  This is only because a responsible and long sighted government knows that long term planning and a sustainable economy that will grow, is the right way to go, albeit a painful one. Without fixing labor shortage to address the need for digitisation, Singapore won't become a financial hub, and we will lose it to other economies which are catching up, nvestment would have gone elsewhere where cost is lower, and there will be no job creation. With artificially high wages due to shortage of labor, we will lose out in terms of value as compared to other countries, and investments will shun us. This is exactly why today, Singapore despite a country with no resources, can thrive and develop into a first world economy with first world per capita income, lowest unemployment rate, low inflation etc. 

On this topic I go to a market in Bedok South / New upper Changi road many a times early morning like 5.30am and 3 HDB shops converted to fresh veg/fruits competing ( good for me the  consumer)  pitting against each other’s and best part all 3 of them cashiers and staff are Myanmar  and they start at 5 am and almost 24 hours ....this was unheard of in the old days when most stall close around 11 am already, people are more enterprising /innovative this days 

[Kusje]

10 hours ago, Throttle2 said:

How stable is your job Kusje?

just wondering.  Self assessment share share....

 

 

Depends on what factors.

If I have a major screw up - easy to be asked to leave

Minor screw up - pretty stable

Economic downturn - stable

[Karoon]

43 minutes ago, BanCoe said:

On this topic I go to a market in Bedok South / New upper Changi road many a times early morning like 5.30am and 3 HDB shops converted to fresh veg/fruits competing ( good for me the  consumer)  pitting against each other’s and best part all 3 of them cashiers and staff are Myanmar  and they start at 5 am and almost 24 hours ....this was unheard of in the old days when most stall close around 11 am already, people are more enterprising /innovative this days 

This is what locals want. They want work-life balance for themselves but when they want something it better be available 24/7. Go holiday in Oz, Europe also complain shops close at 5pm. Funny and sad.

[Kusje]

1 hour ago, Ingenius said:

Which government in the world will be so stupid to want to purposely bring in foreigners to take away jobs from the locals, depress wages, and as a result lose their popularity and votes? Isn't this moronic if this is what they want to achieve ? Why not leave the labor shortage problem as it is, and let the locals enjoy the artificially created high wages ?  This is only because a responsible and long sighted government knows that long term planning and a sustainable economy that will grow, is the right way to go, albeit a painful one. Without fixing labor shortage to address the need for digitisation, Singapore won't become a financial hub, and we will lose it to other economies which are catching up, nvestment would have gone elsewhere where cost is lower, and there will be no job creation. With artificially high wages due to shortage of labor, we will lose out in terms of value as compared to other countries, and investments will shun us. This is exactly why today, Singapore despite a country with no resources, can thrive and develop into a first world economy with first world per capita income, lowest unemployment rate, low inflation etc. 

 

Before we complain we must look at the big picture. 

Yes big picture and I didn't disagree with what you have said.

I'm just asking if it is fair that the lower educated people are the ones sacrificing and the rest of us happily reap the rewards of our "financial hub". Then we call them lazy for being less educated and mock them for being poor.

BTW, you think the poor people making 800-1.5k per month care that we are a first world economy when they can't afford to feed their families (or even start one?)

As to why the govt would do it like that, what is their salary based on?

Edited October 10, 2019 by Kusje

[Kusje]

53 minutes ago, BanCoe said:

On this topic I go to a market in Bedok South / New upper Changi road many a times early morning like 5.30am and 3 HDB shops converted to fresh veg/fruits competing ( good for me the  consumer)  pitting against each other’s and best part all 3 of them cashiers and staff are Myanmar  and they start at 5 am and almost 24 hours ....this was unheard of in the old days when most stall close around 11 am already, people are more enterprising /innovative this days 

What so enterprising or innovative about opening 24 hrs a day?

[Ingenius]

37 minutes ago, Kusje said:

Yes big picture and I didn't disagree with what you have said.

I'm just asking if it is fair that the lower educated people are the ones sacrificing and the rest of us happily reap the rewards of our "financial hub". Then we call them lazy for being less educated and mock them for being poor.

BTW, you think the poor people making 800-1.5k per month care that we are a first world economy when they can't afford to feed their families (or even start one?)

As to why the govt would do it like that, what is their salary based on?

Kusje,  I admire your spirit of caring for the less fortunate.  Once I took a taxi, the driver chatted with me, and he said that Singapore's success is done to 2 main factors, 1 is the government realised the importance of attracting foreign investment, and that was what they did, 2 is the adoption of meritocracy.  These 2 factors largely contributed to SIngapore's economic success.  However, meritocracy carries with itself a set of problems, i.e. income disparity.  Some people will be less successful, and will fall through the gap.  These less well to do people, will least enjoy the fruit of success of the nation.  This is the characteristics and hallmark of a open economy, i.e. widening income gap.  To mitigate this, the government creates a ground of fair opportunity, for individuals to succeed, and entrepreneurs to venture, whether how well they succeed, is up to individual.

 

For this group of low income earners, from what I know our government actually gives them a plateau of help and support.  Personally, I have friends from different walks of life.  Two of them are of the lowest income earners, one is a single mother of 4, and another is a single mother of 2, both of them makes little to no money.  Surprisingly, both of them told me vehemently that they are staunch supporters of the ruling party, and they will always vote for them.  I was surprised, and asked them why.  They told me that they actually receive a lot of aids from the government, like free money every month, free education and pocket money (even after they kids repeat and fail), almost free housing ($120 per month rental), and subsidy in everything.  They actually live quite carefreely.

On the contrary, my friends who are rich businessman, well to do professionals living on landed property and owns a few car paid with full cash, they are all strongly oppose to the ruling government, blaming them for the demise of the lesser fortunate.  These people have shown no gratitude to the nation for their success, but instead blames this and that, without realising how fortunate they are, and how much they have benefited from the opportunities made available to them due to sound governance.

Just to share with you some insights I have.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Ingenius

[BanCoe]

10 minutes ago, Karoon said:

This is what locals want. They want work-life balance for themselves but when they want something it better be available 24/7. Go holiday in Oz, Europe also complain shops close at 5pm. Funny and sad.

We have been lucky (well the lucky one's) especially with travelling as we are right in the centre of a hub (including Bangkok/KL) Air travel with budget travel is affordable; In my old days taking a KTM train to Ipoh or Penang was lux itself

World is globalised, accept it and face it ; even Trump has put in barriers now as the previous premiers got away with cheap labour inflows and world was growing rapidly with consumerism , not so now anymore; so is the EU and Australia ... they all want high end good quality well educated workers ; so aren't their local workers/craftsman unhappy ?? Of course every company wants competitive professionals too, on the cheap and willing to go the extra mile (travelling/odd hours singles usually) ; parallels will always be drawn ; locals have to shape up or ship out ... part of evolution ; gone are the iron rice bowl days of the Japanese companies in the good old days which supported even upto 3 Generations;  Everything is gonna be disruptive from now on, including govts too; So many mom and pop biz have closed down , where have the Mama shops gone?? I used to regularly go to a jeans shop in Fu Lu Shou called Aziz Jeans (I think I went there last about 5 years back .. it was closed.....massage parlour (must be @Angcheek  favourit)  . Last year I passed by Mustafa and saw the boss working there.... both recognised each others..... He says he cannot compete as the big brands want to supply only bigger shops in large quantities, he could not afford quantities but always served me with a smile and free alteration                 

Lastly and finally all else fails ........ PAP fault 

Just sharing  

[BanCoe]

27 minutes ago, Kusje said:

What so enterprising or innovative about opening 24 hrs a day?

Go ask Mr Mustafa and all those 711 stores and petrol stations and now even some NTUC/ Cold Storage marts too

Sleep well , many do the grave yard shifts , you are working too hard on MCF

Edited October 10, 2019 by BanCoe

[Kusje]

It's simple. The poor people are satisfied with free chicken rice - that's why there is free chicken rice in the first place.

But they are too busy fighting for their next meal to see the big picture and realize why they are in this situation in the first place.

[Kusje]

1 minute ago, BanCoe said:

Go ask Mr Mustafa and all those 711 stores and petrol stations and now even some NTUC/ Cold Storage marts too

Sleep well  

exactly my pt. so many people doing it, where is the innovation?

[Enye]

37 minutes ago, Kusje said:

Depends on what factors.

If I have a major screw up - easy to be asked to leave

Minor screw up - pretty stable

Economic downturn - stable

wah...sound like ceo level job

got storeman job boh?  remember me ok?

🙏😊

[Kusje]

10 minutes ago, Enye said:

wah...sound like ceo level job

got storeman job boh?  remember me ok?

🙏😊

now that you mention it, it does sound like ceo job haha.

but sadly, not ceo level pay. still waiting for you to hire me as your asst storeman.

[Showster]

2 hours ago, Ingenius said:

Kusje,  I admire your spirit of caring for the less fortunate.  Once I took a taxi, the driver chatted with me, and he said that Singapore's success is done to 2 main factors, 1 is the government realised the importance of attracting foreign investment, and that was what they did, 2 is the adoption of meritocracy.  These 2 factors largely contributed to SIngapore's economic success.  However, meritocracy carries with itself a set of problems, i.e. income disparity.  Some people will be less successful, and will fall through the gap.  These less well to do people, will least enjoy the fruit of success of the nation.  This is the characteristics and hallmark of a open economy, i.e. widening income gap.  To mitigate this, the government creates a ground of fair opportunity, for individuals to succeed, and entrepreneurs to venture, whether how well they succeed, is up to individual.

 

For this group of low income earners, from what I know our government actually gives them a plateau of help and support.  Personally, I have friends from different walks of life.  Two of them are of the lowest income earners, one is a single mother of 4, and another is a single mother of 2, both of them makes little to no money.  Surprisingly, both of them told me vehemently that they are staunch supporters of the ruling party, and they will always vote for them.  I was surprised, and asked them why.  They told me that they actually receive a lot of aids from the government, like free money every month, free education and pocket money (even after they kids repeat and fail), almost free housing ($120 per month rental), and subsidy in everything.  They actually live quite carefreely.

On the contrary, my friends who are rich businessman, well to do professionals living on landed property and owns a few car paid with full cash, they are all strongly oppose to the ruling government, blaming them for the demise of the lesser fortunate.  These people have shown no gratitude to the nation for their success, but instead blames this and that, without realising how fortunate they are, and how much they have benefited from the opportunities made available to them due to sound governance.

Just to share with you some insights I have.

Great post.

The richest tends to support Govt because they are supported to preserve their value and grow it systematically.

The typical rich tends to be against as they are taxed the heaviest relative to income. They are one of the main meat funding your whole chicken.

The middle income is split because they also pay for the main meat of the chicken, and they use more of their waking hours running the economy. Those who are passionate in their job tends to be happy. Those who work solely for money tends to be the most pissed. But a good proportion at least enjoys having a stable income.

The low income group tends to support the Govt. They are the ones receiving the drumsticks and rightly so.

Income is just one way. The customisation of different kinds of support to different groups is crucial in making the whole structure work well.