Jump to content

Hong Kong protesters demonstrate against extradition bill


Kopites
 Share

Recommended Posts

I think this has gone way too far, taken on a life of its own. Trust no longer exist fir the hkp. Both the hkp and protestors are being abandoned by carrie.

 

The hkp started great and professional, but has since lost tactical discipline. Tacit collusion with triads and excessive violence is undeniable.

 

The protestors were idealistic.. but a hard edge had rapidly grown in response to police action. It won't be long before a committed core turn militant.

 

Go to 9gag.com, type hong Kong and one can see all the footage of both sides action, and see the degeneration.

I put the blame more on the hkp, a fully trained, equipped, organised martial force CANNOT be compared to protestors in behavioral standards.

 

But most of all, the police cannot solve a political leadership problem.

Carrie is the archetypal civil servant you love to hate. No charisma, disconnected, arrogant, entitled... she makes our wong kan seng look like charming Brad Pitt...

 

But who can she blame? Being a CCP puppet and executing its orders, Lam has been doomed to pay a dear price from the very beginning. Can't take the heat, just get out of the kitchen. Wise choice. Or waiting for old CCP's habit, find her as scape goat.

↡ Advertisement
  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right. Ppl who don't live/work in HK or are merely casual armchair observers will not truly understand HKers' frustration. I feel its almost like a daily existential hopelessness for many of them.

 

Most of my HK friends and colleagues count themselves lucky as they have bought their apartments many years ago. Those who havent bought one by now will probably never be able to afford one even if they are uni grads with reasonably paid jobs. For current students without wealthy parents, its almost hopeless to ever afford a roof over their heads. Public housing is also not easily accessible as you mentioned due to unreasonably low qualification criterias, long waiting time and mainlanders competition (I only recently knew about this part).

 

In contrast for SGreans, HDB with all the grants is almost a given for any couple with basic salaries. So we've never really worried about a roof over our head except for a minority of the low income group. No matter how "expensive" we claim HDB to be, any HKer will tell you that its like an affordable bungalow in their eyes. The HK housing policies are basically designed to force the majority towards private apartments and make the few ultra rich families ever richer.

 

While I don't agree with the protestors disrupting public infrastructure services, I honestly can't say that I won't be one of them if I were in their shoes when there's nothing to lose (from an individual perspective).

Definitely the housing problems in HK is not ideal but that does not give the right to riot and wanted independent right? So people in Singapore or any other country are unhappy with certain thing, they also riot?

 

The housing problem only started after handover? How come so many video posted with interviews of rioters no mention of housing problem? If it is only housing problem,  surely they can find solutions unlike us here 8n Singapore.  We have  nowhere to expand.

 

To me, the riots are external. A few key person need to be napped and made to pay. HK is gone but I hope she can recover soon.

 

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/impact-hong-kong-protests-business-investments-beijing-intervene-11800104?cid=h3_referral_inarticlelinks_24082018_cna

 

 

Commentary: Why it’s not in Beijing’s interest to rock the Hong Kong boat

 

And for all that talk about how Hong Kong is now in a very dangerous situation, the city may again prove itself to be more resilient than we think it is, says SUSS’ Yew Chiew Ping. (13 Aug 2019 06:23AM)

 

SINGAPORE: How precarious is the situation in Hong Kong today, and to whom?

 

To outsiders watching Hong Kong, pervasive images of the chaotic scenes of clashes between the protesters and the police force have created an impression that the city is now in a very dangerous situation.

 

To the business community in Hong Kong, however, the real danger lies not in the current protests, but in how autonomous the city can continue to be.

 

A recent study by credit ratings agency Moody’s drives this point home.

 

LIMITED IMPACT ON BUSINESS SENTIMENTS

 

In early July, despite the massive anti-extradition protests in Hong Kong, Moody’s affirmed the city’s Aa2 credit rating, which remains two notches higher than China’s A1.

 

The rating incorporates Moody’s assessment of political risk for Hong Kong, which takes into account challenges to the government’s policies in recent years and particularly visible currently in large-scale protests by the population.

 

In fact, large-scale protests are regarded as “part of the checks and balances in place in Hong Kong, that support institutional strength,” said Moody’s. “Signs that checks and balances weaken would be a negative for Hong Kong’s credit profile.”

 

Moody’s also took pains to highlight the risk of the potential erosion of Hong Kong’s political and economic independence, and a change to its status as an independent entity from China in international settings, like the WTO and in bilateral trade arrangements.

 

Moody’s overall rationale for the stable outlook on Hong Kong’s ratings is revealing about wherein lies the city’s strength and value to both China and global investors: Its distinction from mainland China and other Chinese cities.

 

To that end, an erosion of Hong Kong’s autonomy, signaling that it is becoming more fully integrated with Beijing, would hurt the city’s higher rating.

 

This perceived loss of autonomy is also exactly why the Extradition Bill has triggered some degree of capital flight from Hong Kong to Singapore.

 

An expatriate in Hong Kong whom I communicated with expressed the same opinion. For MNCs, the value of Hong Kong revolves primarily around the well-established rule-of-law, a strong and global financial system, access to China, and an efficient market to make and move money, he said.

 

The key concern for businesses, he said, is about how different Hong Kong will remain under Beijing’s influence.

 

Deep-seated concerns over whether longstanding public policies on foreign investments and trade could be overturned by Beijing have been heightened by the controversial Extradition Bill, viewed by some as a product of Beijing’s influence over the city and contributed to the sense that this pressure on Hong Kong authorities will only grow with the passage of time.

 

In this light, the current protests in the city are a minor and temporary factor to the business community, and pale in comparison with what Beijing or the Hong Kong government does next, especially if it is a move that will undermine Hong Kong’s existing freedoms and introduce uncertainty to the business climate.

 

BEIJING IS RELUCTANT TO ROCK THE BOAT

 

There are many reasons why it is in Beijing’s interests to preserve Hong Kong’s perceived autonomy, not least economic ones.

 

Many big Chinese companies, including state-owned enterprises, have set up offices and raised initial public offering funds in Hong Kong, as well as channelled outbound direct investment through the city.

 

For these firms, Hong Kong’s institutional advantages offer them unparalleled access to global opportunities they do not enjoy in other parts of China.

 

The US-Hong Kong Policy Act further underscores the importance of ensuring Hong Kong’s autonomy from China. Under the Act, Hong Kong is treated as a separate customs territory that enjoys special commerce arrangements with the US. Import quotas and the punishing tariffs that the US has imposed on China, for example, do not apply to Hong Kong.

 

Amid the protracted US-China trade war, it is obvious why Hong Kong’s special trading status matters to China, so much so that Beijing in June called on the US not to pass a proposed legislation that would make the special treatment of Hong Kong under the Act conditional upon an annual review of the city’s autonomy.

 

Those who think that sending in the troops to clamp down on the Hong Kong protests is an easy option for Beijing have pathetically little understanding of Hong Kong’s strategic value to China, and of the prohibitive political and economic costs of military intervention for China.

 

As a Hong Kong entrepreneur in his 30s said to me, as long as Beijing does not resort to force, the effects of the current turmoil on the Hong Kong economy are likely to be temporary.

 

As would be expected of resourceful Hong Kongers, however, he has already sought to diversify the economic risks for his FinTech startup by expanding its business to Singapore and the Greater Bay Area.

 

GRAVE GOVERNANCE CHALLENGES AHEAD

 

The repercussions of the current developments on the city’s governance and society, however, will be more lasting.

 

With this bout of unrest, the Hong Kong government, which should have taken resolute action to quell the conflicts, seems to have sunk into a paralysing crisis.

 

The Hong Kong entrepreneur told me his frustrations with the Chief Executive Carrie Lam’s ineptitude, as she “added insult to injury but didn’t offer any solution” to defuse widespread public anger in her repeated press conferences.

 

His sentiments are no doubt shared by the general population. Lam’s popularity rating is now at a historic low, even in comparison to her predecessors.

 

In the absence of meaningful democratic reforms to the Hong Kong political system, which Beijing is loath to grant, the current administration and the next will find it increasingly onerous to govern the city.

 

The tenacious pro-democracy Hong Kongers who have participated in this round of protests are now desensitised to violent tactics, used by the protesters themselves, the police, and even the triads.

 

Their distrust of and defiance to authority will continue to pose grave challenges to future Hong Kong leaders handpicked by Beijing and its loyalists.

 

Whether and to what extent the protests will damage Hong Kong social fabric remain to be seen.

 

As of now, the general public still appears to be tolerant and understanding towards the acts of civil disobedience, even as many had been affected by the strikes and disruptions to train services.

 

One probable reason is because the participants of the rallies and demonstrations since June are from a broader cross section of Hong Kong society, in comparison to the 2014 Umbrella Movement that was dominated by the youth.

 

But as the protests drag on, the impact of the prolonged unrest on people’s livelihood - contract workers in the hospitality industry have found themselves suddenly out of jobs due to the falling number of tourists to Hong Kong – could sway sentiments on how the protests and protesters are viewed.

 

Nevertheless, the city and its people have withstood many tests since the colonial days, and it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t this time.

 

For all that talk about how Hong Kong is now in a very dangerous situation, the city may again prove itself to be more resilient than we think it is.

 

Dr Yew Chiew Ping is head of Contemporary China Studies at the Singapore University of Social Sciences.

I’m surprised that article is so short...oh, it’s on China/HK...wait till she writes about pappy...one needs to have great stamina to read her POV...

Link to post
Share on other sites

If not mistaken, he was whacking a women on the floor before being mobbed.

Considering the accusations of excessive police force, this is not an unexpected reaction by the protestors, if they had really gone at him, he won't have a chance to draw his weapon.

 

Emotions are high, even this policeman looks scared.

it comes down to carrie, the buck stops there. Her arrogance and ineptitude is the problem that caused this slow burn gone hot.

no need for the gov to give in to these rioters and protesters, they will be gone sooner or later.

 

the riot made these hooligens harder to get any job either in hk or china and any part of the world. employer will never want to

employ them as trouble maker.

 

good luck to them.

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m surprised that article is so short...oh, it’s on China/HK...wait till she writes about pappy...one needs to have great stamina to read her POV...

 

My view has the same outcome as hers, but I've posted before the very expensive Belt & Road Initiative ("BRI") cannot be disrupted at this stage, especially not by the internal trouble in HK. The commenter focused on the business and economic aspects, but did not talk about this BRI project at all.

 

The stationing of the PAP along HK border is as far as China would go in my view. That serves as a deterrence. Who knows, those trucks could be empty.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe these medical professionals will be very effective police men/women. Please let them front these riots first then talk. This is really talk is cheap. 

 

Agreed with you totally. 

 

The policeman could be shot by his own revolver if the rioters managed to snatch the gun from him.

 

These people are not protesters. They are rioters. They are worse then those Koreans whom we saw on TV. At least, they seldom hammer the police. They burnt themselves

  • Praise 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was a young boy, watching HK drama spoken in Cantonese, already the topic on the high price of HK properties were there. And that was in the 80s, today the topic has not change. 

 

The high property prices in HK did not start after 1997, Tung Chee Hwa did not create the issue, neither is CL responsible for the issue. Nobody has a solution, or dare propose a solution, unless you put one of the biggest real estate tycoon as CE, and tell him that he either turn the issue around, or he goes to jail with all his wealth cheong kong.  Possible? who knows mayb after 2047 it might happen, who knows..

 

Hong Kong is a  protest heaven, for decades they have been protesting, and there is not even a designated protest area, they can protest anytime anywhere. As long as they submit a request to the police with start end and duration, protests were always approved, never rejected.  There is even a joke that Sunday in HK is "protest day". 

 

These guys just cannot accept the fact that police can make arrest if a peaceful protest turn violent. They think it is their RIGHT to protest, it is democracy to protest. 

 

But the 2014 umbrella revolution broke it, they turned violent, and police made arrest. And from that moment, the relationship between the guys on the ground and the HKPF changed. The hate for the police did not happen overnight, and surely not because of CL, it was already there after the 2014 crack down.  Ppl just didnt have a valid reason to openly go against the HKPF. 

 

These guys wanted to get back at the gov and the police for "taking away' their RIGHT to protest,  because for decades, nobody arrested any protesters.  They always had the FREEDOM to protest, the arrest took away that FREEDOM. So they wanted that FREEDOM back.

 

Why is housing not inside that 5 demands? nothing about the future  of HK was mention in their demands. 

 

The main demand, their main agenda,  they just wanted CL down, to show their power.

 

Look at all the press, every press conference, 90% of the reporters will ask her when is she going to step down, why is she not accommodating to demands of the HK ppl to resign, and then put all the blame on her. 

 

see the link? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

CL can't connect with the ground. Her life is soooo smooth since student days. She was always the top 3 in her cohort. And, spend whole working life in govt. Everything is well taken care of. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you know that the Hongkies have protested and tried to bring down EVERY CE that was appointed?

 

And they succeeded with the 1st one and also prevented the previous CE (LCY) from getting 2nd term.

 

You can replace Carrie with Karen or Karl and they will still protest and say that the CE is evil, corrupt, bad, blah blah blah....

 

That is so true, i know CL is weak, the weakest amongst the previous CE.

 

Having seen all the previous CE been condemned, her soft approach were deem as do nothing, 做多錯多,不做沒錯 。  [laugh]  [laugh]

Link to post
Share on other sites

If u return to first pages of the this thread. Many of us were on the side of the protestors. Whether against the extradition law or why they marched.

 

I agree that the protestors had valid reasons to march and this incredible socio economic pressure is crucial in the despair of the young.

 

Yes we should not assume we are any different. We share more similarities to hongkongers rather than differences.

 

Similarly. All of us are asking why have the protestors not been about class warfare. At least that has some chance of success lol

 

My friend told me that these protesters are quite similar to trump supporter. They mis-read their problem, embracing an identity politics instead of much needed class warfare.  

 

Trump supporters are mainly white people who lost their social economic status due to the free trade. Instead of embracing a class warfare, they voted for give-the-rich-tax-cut-Trump.  Their response to their problem are basically putting all the blame on Mexican, Hispanic people and Chinese. In their mind, America will be great again if it is white again.

 

Hong Kong lost its special status once China opened its door. Groups like property developer and bankers benefited greatly working with China, while others see their income stagnant and a soaring house price. Instead of embracing a class warfare, they protested to keep HK as laissez faire as possible. They put all the blame to "evil Chinese" even though PRC have so far very restrained to exercise its sovereignty right. They claimed that their system is corrupted by PRC even though their rank in the Corruption Perception Index rose from 18th in year 1997 to 14th last year. Furthermore, they claimed that they are oppressed by China even though they are 1st in the Business Freedom ranking and 3rd in the Human Freedom ranking  (New Zealand and Switzerland are 1st and 2nd) under a communist regime. In their mind, "Hong Kong is not China" and the Hong Kong will be great again by cutting all the ties with China.

  • Praise 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

CL can't connect with the ground. Her life is soooo smooth since student days. She was always the top 3 in her cohort. And, spend whole working life in govt. Everything is well taken care of. 

 

 

Actually which of the 4 CE has any connection to the ground?  [laugh]  [laugh]  [laugh]

 

She just didnt do anything silly enough for the ppl to condemn her or start a protest to remove her until this bill. So medias can only personal attack her on her good life...

 

I am not supporting CL, I am just trying to put things together and be just to her. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you know that the Hongkies have protested and tried to bring down EVERY CE that was appointed?

 

And they succeeded with the 1st one and also prevented the previous CE (LCY) from getting 2nd term.

 

You can replace Carrie with Karen or Karl and they will still protest and say that the CE is evil, corrupt, bad, blah blah blah....

The point is they will never be happy unless joshua wong elected
Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed with you totally. 

 

The policeman could be shot by his own revolver if the rioters managed to snatch the gun from him.

 

These people are not protesters. They are rioters. They are worse then those Koreans whom we saw on TV. At least, they seldom hammer the police. They burnt themselves

When policeman is being attacked,  he has every right to shoot to protect himself and also public because once disarmed,  it can be used to kill others.

 

I am assumed by the HK police having to fight these rioters.  They should shoot and i don't understand what the media is talking about police using excessive force. In my opinion,  the HK police is too nice. Nicer than the rioters.

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was a young boy, watching HK drama spoken in Cantonese, already the topic on the high price of HK properties were there. And that was in the 80s, today the topic has not change.

 

The high property prices in HK did not start after 1997, Tung Chee Hwa did not create the issue, neither is CL responsible for the issue. Nobody has a solution, or dare propose a solution, unless you put one of the biggest real estate tycoon as CE, and tell him that he either turn the issue around, or he goes to jail with all his wealth cheong kong. Possible? who knows mayb after 2047 it might happen, who knows..

 

Hong Kong is a protest heaven, for decades they have been protesting, and there is not even a designated protest area, they can protest anytime anywhere. As long as they submit a request to the police with start end and duration, protests were always approved, never rejected. There is even a joke that Sunday in HK is "protest day".

 

These guys just cannot accept the fact that police can make arrest if a peaceful protest turn violent. They think it is their RIGHT to protest, it is democracy to protest.

 

But the 2014 umbrella revolution broke it, they turned violent, and police made arrest. And from that moment, the relationship between the guys on the ground and the HKPF changed. The hate for the police did not happen overnight, and surely not because of CL, it was already there after the 2014 crack down. Ppl just didnt have a valid reason to openly go against the HKPF.

 

These guys wanted to get back at the gov and the police for "taking away' their RIGHT to protest, because for decades, nobody arrested any protesters. They always had the FREEDOM to protest, the arrest took away that FREEDOM. So they wanted that FREEDOM back.

 

Why is housing not inside that 5 demands? nothing about the future of HK was mention in their demands.

 

The main demand, their main agenda, they just wanted CL down, to show their power.

 

Look at all the press, every press conference, 90% of the reporters will ask her when is she going to step down, why is she not accommodating to demands of the HK ppl to resign, and then put all the blame on her.

 

see the link?

Yeah i remember growing up watching 1980s 1990s hk movie all complaint small house, expensive price, hard to get public housing and 1997 is the end of hk lol
Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is they will never be happy unless joshua wong elected

 

 

Joshua is over hyped and outdated, the young no longer listen to him, he has just become another ugly politician.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My friend told me that these protesters are quite similar to trump supporter. They mis-read their problem, embracing an identity politics instead of much needed class warfare.  

 

Trump supporters are mainly white people who lost their social economic status due to the free trade. Instead of embracing a class warfare, they voted for give-the-rich-tax-cut-Trump.  Their response to their problem are basically putting all the blame on Mexican, Hispanic people and Chinese. In their mind, America will be great again if it is white again.

 

Hong Kong lost its special status once China opened its door. Groups like property developer and bankers benefited greatly working with China, while others see their income stagnant and a soaring house price. Instead of embracing a class warfare, they protested to keep HK as laissez faire as possible. They put all the blame to "evil Chinese" even though PRC have so far very restrained to exercise its sovereignty right. They claimed that their system is corrupted by PRC even though their rank in the Corruption Perception Index rose from 18th in year 1997 to 14th last year. Furthermore, they claimed that they are oppressed by China even though they are 1st in the Business Freedom ranking and 3rd in the Human Freedom ranking  (New Zealand and Switzerland are 1st and 2nd) under a communist regime. In their mind, "Hong Kong is not China" and the Hong Kong will be great again by cutting all the ties with China.

 

Granted China kidnapped some book sellers lah...

 

I don't really agree with class warfare, since generally, more competence and more intelligence does exist in higher wage earners. And tycoons are not really stupid people also.  Or else they will lose their fortunes.

Even the 1% commonly touted, there's evidence to show that the churn within this 1% is higher compared to the churn between the other classes.

 

The masses always can be distracted. Some will say televised/live sports, television, constant bombardment by the news etc are also ways to distract the populace (other than the daily grind to get food on the table).

 

There are many flaws within capitalism, but it's the only system that has brought us here to this day. All other systems have failed miserably.

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Joshua is over hyped and outdated, the young no longer listen to him, he has just become another ugly politician.

When he was out of jail he promised millions of protesters lol
↡ Advertisement
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...