Hong Kong protesters demonstrate against extradition bill

[Voodooman]

4 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

That is why USA is experiencing now. The new era of china is nowhere near that. If you look back on china history. The last 40 years was their best in their entire history of more than 2000 years. If you are one of them, do you want change to the previous or current?

Change to what?  You are saying because CCP did well in 40 out of its 70 years rule, China is now at its best in 2000 years?  I thought China's best years are during Han or Tang Dynasty? 

What are you expecting to happen to the US? To collapse tomorrow?  A violent rebellion to remove Trump?  USA has changed numerous government via the ballot box and is almost 250 years old. Save for a violent civil war, the system has allowed peaceful regime change without much bloodshed. It is likely to last longer than CCP and most of the dynasty in the last 2000 years? Did you know that only 10% of Chinese dynasty lasted more than 250 years. 

Acknowledge CCP itself enforces some form of democracy and meritocracy and that is why it is has outlasted 70% of Chinese dynasties. 

[inlinesix]

14 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

Tang and ming did not elevate her population from poverty. Today china has yet to achieve it but definitely surpassed their history. To be 2nd or probably 1st economy of the world is not simple for 1 b people coming from a 3rd world within such a short time. Tell me if you disagrees 

How do know Tang and Ming did not elevate population from poverty?
Currently, there are 600m population earning below RMB1k per mth. There is a long road to go.

I guess I don’t have to repeat what I said about China economic accomplishment (as mentioned above).

[Victor68]

5 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

How many died during Cultural Revolution?
The reset resulted in ppl distrust ppl. I believe that’s not what Modi want.

That is another story and of course,  it is not he wants or not. Beyond him to be fair. At his present rate, games over by the time his term is up. 

[Voodooman]

54 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

The current indian or the chinese system works better for a more 1 b people with a 2000 years culture? What is your take?

Why only compare to a failed state like India?  Why not democratic society in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, European countries, USA? 

I am not saying China should adopt the Western system. The Chinese have to find their own way but to say the CCP system is the best is premature. 40 out of 70 years?

This discussion arises from your argument that the HK protests are without merits and those who don't agree should ship out and migrate. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Voodooman

[t0y0ta]

9 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Why only compare to a failed state like India?  Why not democratic society in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, European countries, USA? 

I am not saying China should adopt the Western system. The Chinese have to find their own way but to say the CCP system is the best is premature. 40 out of 70 years?

This discussion arises from your argument that the HK protests are without merits and those who don't agree should ship out and migrate. 

I would like to offer my thoughts:

HK protests and protester feelings are totally understandable and worthy of some sympathy. Just like we sympathise with people who are for example born with genetic disorder through no fault of their own.

Their fate from a macro perspective is sealed. They are citizen residents of a city that is under indirect and eventual direct China rule. China, for all their perceived problems and bad behaviour and external enemies will almost certainly be powerful enough to defend their HK against any internal/external pressure or threats for the next several decades.

Just like people stricken down with illness and having to choose difficult choices such as transplants, chemo etc, HKers who want to go against this fate can only take radical steps such as immigration to another land. Otherwise internal violence and civil disobedience will be like throwing eggs against boulder.

 

[Voodooman]

7 minutes ago, t0y0ta said:

I would like to offer my thoughts:

HK protests and protester feelings are totally understandable and worthy of some sympathy. Just like we sympathise with people who are for example born with genetic disorder through no fault of their own.

Their fate from a macro perspective is sealed. They are citizen residents of a city that is under indirect and eventual direct China rule. China, for all their perceived problems and bad behaviour and external enemies will almost certainly be powerful enough to defend their HK against any internal/external pressure or threats for the next several decades.

Just like people stricken down with illness and having to choose difficult choices such as transplants, chemo etc, HKers who want to go against this fate can only take radical steps such as immigration to another land. Otherwise internal violence and civil disobedience will be like throwing eggs against boulder.

 

Yes.  Resistance is futile. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Voodooman

[inlinesix]

18 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Yes.  Resistance is futile. 

 

[Heartlander]

44 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

 

Citizens normally rebel when there are compelling factors like severe inequality in income amplified by some crisis be it social or economical, which are now lacking in China as generally there are enough to eat and able to live comfortably.

I would think unless people living in the Guangdong coastal area all thinking like hkers then xjp might face any significant pushback. For now it is only about hk and no other nearby city like Shenzhen or even Macau, so the above threat is not there.

[Voodooman]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

 

China is rounding up the protest leaders. With the new security law, funding will be curtailed further.  The scale of protest is already smaller than last year.  Sad but true.

The ruling north has 2000 years of experience dealing with the restive south and like what Heartlander said, there is no critical mass for open rebellion at the moment.  

[inlinesix]

9 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

China is rounding up the protest leaders. With the new security law, funding will be curtailed further.  The scale of protest is already smaller than last year.  Sad but true.

The ruling north has 2000 years of experience dealing with the restive south and like what Heartlander said, there is no critical mass for open rebellion at the moment.  

As said last year, it is likely that this is an internal powerplay playing out in HK.

More and more of this shit is coming out in the open.

Today, there is an interesting news

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3087602/retired-footballer-denounces-communist-party-calls-chinese

https://www.scmp.com/sport/china/article/3087684/chinese-sports-couple-hao-haidong-and-ye-zhaoying-face-being-wiped

[Thaiyotakamli]

2 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Why only compare to a failed state like India?  Why not democratic society in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, European countries, USA? 

I am not saying China should adopt the Western system. The Chinese have to find their own way but to say the CCP system is the best is premature. 40 out of 70 years?

This discussion arises from your argument that the HK protests are without merits and those who don't agree should ship out and migrate. 

There are many failed big democratic states like indonesia India philippines 

maybe china suits authoritarian style more than democratic. If tian an men was a success would china get as rich as today? They would still end up divided and have the same progress as india or even indo. democratic is emphasised by angmoh, doesnt mean it will work 100% successfully. 

Now china is enjoying good economic growth and stability, if it aint broke why bother to fix? Countries that need democratic reform should be something like north korea 
 

 

[Victor68]

4 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Why only compare to a failed state like India?  Why not democratic society in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, European countries, USA? 

I am not saying China should adopt the Western system. The Chinese have to find their own way but to say the CCP system is the best is premature. 40 out of 70 years?

This discussion arises from your argument that the HK protests are without merits and those who don't agree should ship out and migrate. 

To compare apple to apple, you cannot compare china with Taiwan right? Do you see USA or India have more similarities with china?

I didn't say china system has reached the best. But they are experiencing their best years in their history. Would they continue for the next 30 years? I don't know but it would be very frightening for many.

If you cannot agree with the 1.4 b, then you have to leave not the 1.4 b leaving right? Same for any other country. 

 

[Heartlander]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

As said last year, it is likely that this is an internal powerplay playing out in HK.

More and more of this shit is coming out in the open.

Today, there is an interesting news

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3087602/retired-footballer-denounces-communist-party-calls-chinese

https://www.scmp.com/sport/china/article/3087684/chinese-sports-couple-hao-haidong-and-ye-zhaoying-face-being-wiped

This football player is just a whimper only lah, not like a roar kind of impact. And with Steve Bannon involved, no hope lah.

Anyway power play or not, if never involve the masses. also will not come to anything. Historically, almost all government being overthrown all involved citizens demanding changes to current regime. This is not happening in China right now. I see the various china daily broadcast youtube videos all showing contented lives not like some angry people like hkers. So my bet is not to put any hope on regime change at all lah, simply no demand at all now. Much like over here lah haha.

[Thaiyotakamli]

Jokers

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-protest-shopping-mall-ifc-12807618?cid=FBcna

[Jellandross]

Sigh still ended up with arrests. HK police obviously not US trained. No knee-on-neck show of Democracy. 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Jellandross

[inlinesix]

4 minutes ago, Heartlander said:

This football player is just a whimper only lah, not like a roar kind of impact. And with Steve Bannon involved, no hope lah.

Anyway power play or not, if never involve the masses. also will not come to anything. Historically, almost all government being overthrown all involved citizens demanding changes to current regime. This is not happening in China right now. I see the various china daily broadcast youtube videos all showing contented lives not like some angry people like hkers. So my bet is not to put any hope on regime change at all lah, simply no demand at all now. Much like over here lah haha.

I had never watch local broadcast when i was staying in Beijing.

If it is a whimper only, why would SINA block any search?

This type of news is almost never heard of previously.

As i said previously, internal powerplay.

[Heartlander]

15 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

I had never watch local broadcast when i was staying in Beijing.

If it is a whimper only, why would SINA block any search?

This type of news is almost never heard of previously.

As i said previously, internal powerplay.

I vaguely recall the name of the backer of this ex-footballer to be someone shaking leg in USA now, not even fighting in person in China.

We all know china very strict on all these political things, no block then I think something is wrong.

Ask yourself are we witnessing unrest happening in china like in hk? People can be very tough but if there is no motivating factor(s) then what for you want to show you are tough? Eat too full nothing better to do? Eat too full means most likely living a good life, so not really got motivation to change also lah.

[inlinesix]

6 minutes ago, Heartlander said:

I vaguely recall the name of the backer of this ex-footballer to be someone shaking leg in USA now, not even fighting in person in China.

We all know china very strict on all these political things, no block then I think something is wrong.

Ask yourself are we witnessing unrest happening in china like in hk? People can be very tough but if there is no motivating factor(s) then what for you want to show you are tough? Eat too full nothing better to do? Eat too full means most likely living a good life, so not really got motivation to change also lah.

Guo Wen Gui stayed in Four Season HK previously until he got wind MSF tried to nab him.  He is someone i half believe only.

All i can tell you is read up more on China from other sources.  Fate of CCP is decided in backroom.