Hong Kong protesters demonstrate against extradition bill

[Philipkee]

10 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

You have to read up information in part C & D.  That part is in essence Revolutionist asking Japan for donation in 1908. 

After reading that part, does Japan bring more good than bad in that 45 years?

On the surface of it, it can be seen as an objective question.  But like my good friend @Ash2017 once asked, what is the point behind that question?

And I think China is asking that question.  Same as Hongkong govt.   So that is why offence is taken. 

[inlinesix]

28 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Like I said, if the question was 1900 - 1931 or 1900 - 1937, maybe it's different.  Once u cross into ww2, people get emotional.  Cos no matter how much good japan may have done for China, it would have been more than erased by the actions of ww2.  But some might be influenced by time period.  The good of 37 years can never be outweighed by the bad of 8 years.  

That's all the student need to answer.  

[inlinesix]

27 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

On the surface of it, it can be seen as an objective question.  But like my good friend @Ash2017 once asked, what is the point behind that question?

And I think China is asking that question.  Same as Hongkong govt.   So that is why offence is taken. 

Exam Board is under HK Govt 

Student needs to be able to study history objectively without any political interference.

Do you ask "what is the point behind that question" for your exam question?

 

[Wt_know]

i see hk problem is a reflection why taiwan tsai won president election

i watch a documentary why han kuo-yu lost badly

that's because new voters they are all grew up in taiwan in internet age 

all of them very opiniated and love taiwan for what taiwan and they have no love no association no belonging to prc

same to hkee ... whatever it takes for "sovereign" ...

whether education or not ... all of them has the feeling of "whatever it takes" ...

[inlinesix]

1 minute ago, Wt_know said:

i see hk problem is a reflection why taiwan tsai won president election

i watch a documentary why han kuo-yu lost badly

that's because new voters they are all grew up in taiwan in internet age 

all of them very opiniated and love taiwan for what taiwan and they have no love no association no belonging to prc

same to hkee ... whatever it takes for "sovereign" ...

whether education or not ... all of them has the feeling of "whatever it takes" ...

Tsai had won the election in Jan 2019 when 告台灣同胞書 was read.  No turning back already from thereon.

As KMT did not address cross straits relationship adequately, it is a gone case party.

Not forgetting HK achieves its lower COVID19 case number thanks to HCW strike in Jan.  Without this freedom, HK may join us.

[Picnic06-Biante15]

wrong thread

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Picnic06-Biante15

[Picnic06-Biante15]

wrong thread

Edited May 25, 2020 by Picnic06-Biante15

[Philipkee]

38 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Exam Board is under HK Govt 

Student needs to be able to study history objectively without any political interference.

Do you ask "what is the point behind that question" for your exam question?

 

Problem is the HK govt (or at least parts of it including the Chief Exec) doesnt think the exam board is being objective so they are asking that question like what is the point of the question.

We cannot use China or Singapore as an example cos generally our govt agencies sing the same song. I think in Hong Kong there is much more independence among the agencies hence it is possible for the exam board (under HK govt) to do something subtly against the China govt.

History, especially recent history, is rarely objective in the sense there is always an agenda behind it.

[Philipkee]

48 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

That's all the student need to answer.  

Theoretically yes.  But the problem is if the student knows the teacher expects a certain answer to get better grades.  He will answer in a certain way.  It all depends on how the teacher teaches the student.

But it goes both ways.  If the student knows the teacher supports the protestors, he will say the japanese did more good.  He will get more Marks and the teacher gets his propaganda answer.  If the student knows the paper is marked in China like how our o levels is marked in UK, the student will write the opposite.

Cos it is almost impossible for the student to write objectively cos from what I remember of my exams in Singapore, questions that ask you to discuss generally expect you to pick a side and argue from there.  You are not supposed to end the question with "neutral".

And either side will potentially offend someone.  So it is actually best such questions are not asked and if there are, there is usually an agenda behind it.

[inlinesix]

16 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Problem is the HK govt (or at least parts of it including the Chief Exec) doesnt think the exam board is being objective so they are asking that question like what is the point of the question.

We cannot use China or Singapore as an example cos generally our govt agencies sing the same song. I think in Hong Kong there is much more independence among the agencies hence it is possible for the exam board (under HK govt) to do something subtly against the China govt.

History, especially recent history, is rarely objective in the sense there is always an agenda behind it.

If that's the case, might as well stop all history study.

[inlinesix]

11 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Theoretically yes.  But the problem is if the student knows the teacher expects a certain answer to get better grades.  He will answer in a certain way.  It all depends on how the teacher teaches the student.

But it goes both ways.  If the student knows the teacher supports the protestors, he will say the japanese did more good.  He will get more Marks and the teacher gets his propaganda answer.  If the student knows the paper is marked in China like how our o levels is marked in UK, the student will write the opposite.

Cos it is almost impossible for the student to write objectively cos from what I remember of my exams in Singapore, questions that ask you to discuss generally expect you to pick a side and argue from there.  You are not supposed to end the question with "neutral".

And either side will potentially offend someone.  So it is actually best such questions are not asked and if there are, there is usually an agenda behind it.

DSE is marked in HK.

The student who takes either side has to give a good argument.   Liberal studies is about your thought process rather absolute answer.

If Mao takes this exam, he will say Japanese do more good than harm as it unites both CCP & KMT to fight 1 common enemy.

[Beregond]

any chinese who say japan invasion and occupation of china do more good then bad. i think their ancestor will wake up from their graves and wack them 😆

 

[Lala81]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

This is the question.  What is wrong with it?

Don't tell me your Mandarin lousy.

Disagree. An objective way for a question would be "explain how did the Japanese influence events in China from 1900-1945“. 

And to even include the events in ww2 is really... 

It's 100% not a simpur question as what Edmw would call it. 

[Lala81]

2 minutes ago, Beregond said:

any chinese who say japan invasion and occupation of china do more good then bad. i think their ancestor will wake up from their graves and wack them 😆

 

I think the people who died in the gas Chambers from the human experiments in ww2 deserve first blood ... 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Lala81

[Philipkee]

18 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

If that's the case, might as well stop all history study.

Not agreeing or disagreeing.   During my time, those who do history tend to just memorize the textbooks and rarely research deeper.  I do that so the history teachers sometimes hate me cos I rewrite history sometimes in exams but they dont dare to mark me down cos they know I researched (this was days before internet) and sometimes I faked history but because the teachers dont know they still gave me the marks (another story hehehe)

13 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

DSE is marked in HK.

The student who takes either side has to give a good argument.   Liberal studies is about your thought process rather absolute answer.

If Mao takes this exam, he will say Japanese do more good than harm as it unites both CCP & KMT to fight 1 common enemy.

My thinking is liberal studies is not really liberal studies.  A certain answer is kind of "expected". Its like a professor is liberal but when a question is asked asking u to rate Trump, you are supposed to say he is bad.  A student can give a good argument on the opposite.  I agree. But my impression is history students tend to memorize textbooks only and not research further.

No disagreements on what Mao would say.  Apparently he did say something like that.  He is no angel also.  

[Didu]

Hong Kong is in a state of flux. The circumstances educators, and students(i.e. young people who's trying to grasp what their future will be like) find themselves in is not enviable.

A bit of background context:

In 2012, tens of thousands of mainly young demonstrators, many of them school children, surrounded the government complex for 10 days to protest an order for schools to teach "Moral and National Education" classes.

The curriculum praised China's communist and nationalist history while criticizing republicanism and democracy movements.

It was eventually abandoned.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-protests-timeline-of-events-11681784

[Lala81]

13 minutes ago, Didu said:

Hong Kong is in a state of flux. The circumstances educators, and students(i.e. young people who's trying to grasp what their future will be like) find themselves in is not enviable.

A bit of background context:

In 2012, tens of thousands of mainly young demonstrators, many of them school children, surrounded the government complex for 10 days to protest an order for schools to teach "Moral and National Education" classes.

The curriculum praised China's communist and nationalist history while criticizing republicanism and democracy movements.

It was eventually abandoned.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-protests-timeline-of-events-11681784

I agree that many countries try to revise history and how its taught. 

 

However to explain the benefits of an invasion that led to so much suffering from the inhabitants of China and hk is pushing this too far. 

You can say that the invasion of malaya and singapore was the first death knell of colonialism in the commonwealth. And that it shaped our current modern Malaysia and sg. But to call this post colonial transformation a benefit of ww2 would be a bit rich and totally belittling and understating the human cost of that event. 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Lala81

[inlinesix]

29 minutes ago, Didu said:

Hong Kong is in a state of flux. The circumstances educators, and students(i.e. young people who's trying to grasp what their future will be like) find themselves in is not enviable.

A bit of background context:

In 2012, tens of thousands of mainly young demonstrators, many of them school children, surrounded the government complex for 10 days to protest an order for schools to teach "Moral and National Education" classes.

The curriculum praised China's communist and nationalist history while criticizing republicanism and democracy movements.

It was eventually abandoned.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/hong-kong-protests-timeline-of-events-11681784

To CCP, 愛國=愛黨。

If diu CCP, traitor.

Similarly, anyone out on the street to protest is 港毒。