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Most Improved Car Brands


wangxiaodi
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On 8/27/2019 at 1:29 PM, wangxiaodi said:

It is true Hyundai especially these 3 years had been very aggressive to churn out many exciting models. 

Ioniq, elantra 2017, avante 2019, 130 series and suv and mpv. All looks quite refreshing. 

Hyundai got MPV meh?

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Turbocharged
23 hours ago, wangxiaodi said:

Why cant they come out with another series of Lancer? 

Cos their Lancer failed miserably in the market against competitors worldwide. 

It all started with their GDI Lancers in the early 2000s. The massive recalls of the failed GDI engine worldwide put a dent in the lancer name and never recovered since.

Sure we get the Lancer GLX which is popular here due to the price, but it did not sell well in other parts of the world due to the old engine and design. (Which we dun feel it due to our trend)

The Lancer EX is worst. While it's okay sales here, its non existence in Japan due to the poor reputation.

 

Our market is too small to influences anything. Many model is successful here but fail elsewhere and vice versa.

Eg. Turbo Forester XT is successful here but a failure in japan and Australia due to the price. People rather pay 2k more for an X3. Hence its discontinued.

The 1.0 turbo Swift is lukewarm here but very successful in Australia cos people rather save 3k on the swift than to buy the more expensive honda jazz.

 

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Turbocharged
2 hours ago, Atrecord said:

Hyundai got MPV meh?

They used to have the trajet. Now their MPV comes under the guise of the Santa Fe.

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On 8/26/2019 at 11:37 PM, Pocus said:

I offer my own opinion on some of the car brands and how they have improved or regressed.

My critera is based on:

  • Their performance in the past 10 years
  • Singapore market performance only

 
CONSISTENT BRANDS

Toyota - No longer the mainstay in SG market as its car losing the edge due to pricing and design. Many of it's pie are eaten by it's competitors. Even the days of toyota Taxis are over. The only thing keep Toyota in it's status quo position is it's reputation of reliablility since the 90s and a lineup of whole lot of premium and hybrid cars for the PHV business.

Subaru - Subaru have some hits and misses. Their WRX in the late 2000s are one of the best valued sports cars in the market. There was once the WRX is cheaper than a Colt Version R. However with the high COE and introduction of CEVS, the WRX is no longer competitive. From a Sub 70k car it's new model once hit 180k! Luckily in recent years, Motorimage managed to get get good prices for their popular lineups of XV and Foresters. With the emergence of SUVs and crossovers. Subaru looks to gain back from of it's fame in the late 2000s.

Mazda - Always know to make Beautiful trend setting cars but weak inefficient engines. Mazda hasn't really been catching on, until the new Kodo lineup in the early 2010s. The styling and trend setting as usually but the new skyactive engine improve FC alot while not compromising much on power. The Mazda3 is a looker and the CX5 captured the hearts of buyers again. The popularity of the car is further push by the PHV industry. Towards the end of it's life the Mazda 3 managed to sell at cheap price but many buyers shunt it due to it's PHV status. But with the new Kodo model in 2019, that is set to change. Time will tell if the current Mazda line up can attract.

Mercedes - Most Merc before 2008 are reserved for the alas group of uncles and aunties which is Merc's demography of buyers. But Merc knew they need to do something so they will not miss this group of younger generations growing up with buying power. They did radical changes towards their new models and design philoshphy. The 2008 C class is design to look young and to attract young executives to much success. They further introduce the models with lower displacement to make it more affordable. Seeing the success of the C class, they repeat the same with the A Class. This trendy hatchback is a Golf killer and for the first time, priced it right to be reachable than some Japanese models. Seeing the potential in its A class, Merc introduce different variants of the A class to match the trendy yuppy style to attract buyers. This has made Merc to be as consistent as ever since 10 years ago.

Nissan - They have always been consistent in terms of their lineup, their cars are not too radical nor are they too boring. They have no real technology edge over other brands. They are either too young looking for the uncles or too uncle for the youngsters. But they managed to stay relevant. They managed to jump in the crossover bandwagon with the Qasqhai, the 7 seater SUV with X-trail and the short-lived small turbo cars like the Note and Pulsat. For that, I'd say they are pretty consistent to date. But Nissan must innovate quickly lest they fall into regress mode.

 

GROWING BRANDS

Honda - Honda's got the stuff since the 90s and never loses it's steam. It's Civics are still favourites and it just keep getting better! Not to mention it never fails to nail every segment of the car market. Compact Hatches? they got the Jazz. Emerging Crossover trends? the Vezel covered that. Hybrid? A whole range of regular cars with hybrid setup to choose from. MPV? Go Oddessy! Sports cars? Type R is always there. SUVs? CRV reporting. Honda is on a roll and looking good!!

Hyundai - In the late 2000s, Hyundai makes supar poser cars. Suped up Getz and Tuscani roamed the roads in Hyundai's name, often look down upon and laughed. Their lineup like the Avante and Matrix is known to be ugly and a shoddy copy of popular brands. Look how much they are grown. And they have grown a whole lot! Hyundai has grown 10 folds with a large lineup of reliable cars for everyone, at competitive prices. That is why the Elantra dethroned the Altis and took over the taxi ranges. And being sick of posing, Hyundai got serious with Performance. From the competent Veloster Turbo and finally went hardcore with the i30N. To think we laugh at them 10 years agom now they are unstoppable! 

Volkswagen - VW deserves some credit here. Pre 2006 no one gives a shit about VW. Except of the GTI, their lineup of Mk5 Golfs and Passats are boring AF and expensive. Suddenly all that change with their new TSI engines. Low cc high torque mini turbos. Suddenly They cars are exciting to drive and very much the talk in town. 1.4 twincharger TSI is king. The release of the sport Scirocco further cement the thought that VW is the future. But the techology did not stood the test of time. The infamous DQ200 gearbox issues and the overwhelmed customer support in VCS, marred the fame of VW. Word spread and as more DSG failure is reported, suddenly the showrooms are cold again. Recently, VW begins to understand its failures and learn to manage it. The DQ200 designs have improved and interest are returning. But it is still marred by the COE price and improving competitors. Will VW enjoy simliar success/failure again? One thing is for sure, more people know VW compared to the Mk4/5 Golfs era.


EMERGING BRANDS
Skoda - 1 year ago no one has heard of this brand. Those who did have bittersweet memories of it's tough built and lousy dealer support. With Skoda taking over the dealership by itself (with VSC) Skoda has emerged to a desirable brand for those wanting a VW on a budget. The whole range of Skoda cars, with it's competitive price, effectively push down the sales of VW cars as people can still enjoy TSI engines at lower price. The outgoing models like the Rapid and Octavia are fugly to some but the newer models like the Kodiaq managed to win the hearts of many. WIthin a year, Skoda sold more cars than it did for 5 years and sold more that VW in the first 6 months of 2019. This highlight the potential of this brand.


REGRESSING BRANDS
Ford - Ford in 2008 have exciting lineup. Their Focus, Mondeo an Fiesta managed to capture some buyers even though they are rare sight. But in recent years, their numbers are dwelling and they didn't seem to put the effort to increase their sales. The Mondeo 2.0 Ecoboost and the Kuga are perfect platforms but fall short in the perks their offer. Some the model are either discontinued or dropped. The last nail that hit the coffin is the VES which totally killed them. RIP Ford.

Mitsubishi - Mit cars are popular with Lancer GLX/EX a common sight. Even the other models like the Colt and Grandis are pretty common. But this is more due to the signs of trouble within Japan. Cos if you go Japan, no one drives a Lancer or any Mit cars. You only find their Kei cars with are rebadged of Suzukis/Nissans. The lack of new models to follow kill Mit here. They dropped their Exo X, close their Ralliart store, move out of Leng Kee (to be dishonorably taken over by Kia) and downside their presence. Only to be left with the Attrage to fund them from the PHV business. With the ridiculous package deal offered by C&C, Mitsubishi cars are doomed to oblivion.

 

HONORABLE MENTIONS

Suzuki - Suzuki enjoy unexpected success with their Swift lineup in a time where COE is low and compact hatch are still relevant. Their Swift sport was dubbed the poor man's hot hatch and very popular. But with the COE going north it is illogical to buy small cars at such high prices, Suzuki fade in to the dark in Singapore Scene. Recently their emergence with the new Swift with a competent engine and their Vitara which offer as an alternative to the overpopulated and boring Vezel. With the new Jimny and upcoming Swift Sport, we hope Suzuki will continue to be one of the emerging brands.

Citroen - Citroen is always the niche brand and not very popular due to it's French origins. Like they say the french are good artists but not good engineers. But it had some success with the emergence of diesel vehicles. The Grand Picasso is one of the popular contenders for the shrinking MPV segment and the most popular model for a year or two. Alas the diesel tax structure has change and diesel car are not viable for sale. There goes the short glory of Citroen.

I am sorry that I don't think I can agree with you on the above highlighted. Honda being categorised as growing Brand and your description of Skoda! 

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On 8/27/2019 at 6:06 PM, wangxiaodi said:

Why cant they come out with another series of Lancer? 

Globally, sedan sales are falling as more and more people go for SUVs.

Mitsubishi are also not flush with money so no point for them to spend to make a car that may not be profitable.

Attrage probably does the same job that Lancer did for them last time TBH. Cheap, no frills sedan.

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Turbocharged
4 hours ago, Fitvip said:

I am sorry that I don't think I can agree with you on the above highlighted. Honda being categorised as growing Brand and your description of Skoda! 

Sure no problem, all this is my opinion anyway.. But I'd like to hear your perspective and argument on this and why your views differ from me .

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5 hours ago, Pocus said:

They used to have the trajet. Now their MPV comes under the guise of the Santa Fe.

Trajet - even though an ex-colleague made fun of it as called Tragic - was a very spacious purpose-built MPV, fit for purpose.

Santa Fe the newest one which the mata also bought, is at least slightly more spacious than the 5+2 seater that it replaced. Whoever in Hyundai trying to con people into believing that Santa Fe is a decent MPV, is really pushing it...

Having said that, it's not that Hyundai doesn't have a MPV. They do. They have a Starex MPV. It's not the commercial van, nor the 4-row bus, but a proper 3-row spacious MPV. I tested it 3+ yr ago. The problem is that the deluded Komoco thought and felt that just because it is roughly the same size as Alphard, it was only right that they position it as rivaling Alphard, pricing it at $170K+. It was a plain jane both inside and outside, very basic. I would not have bought it even for $130K, much less $170K... The vehicle was parked in KMC's basement carpark, and not displayed in the showroom - no idea why...

So even now, 3 yr on, the only Starex MPV i see on the roads here, are those carrying M'sian plates, presumably used as limo...

No doubt Hyundai is a fast-improving brand. I'm betting my $$ with it too, so it has better not betray my trust. But the MPV is an area that has regressed badly... OK, maybe it's merely Komoco and not Hyundai's fault, but the effect/verdict is still the same.

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Maybe it's just me and the fact that I'm working in the car industry, but I'm always puzzled that many Singaporeans have quite a short-sighted view about the car industry.

We are just a small kachang puteh market in terms of volume, we have next to no say on what car manufacturers can offer in terms of product. Maybe the bigger brands (Toyota, Merc, BMW) have a bit of clout but I think hardly enough to influence the factories IMO.

If the carmakers want to discontinue a model even though it sells well and is popular here, we also LLST. Same with what they can offer, at best the distributors can cherry-pick the best fit for our market, but carmakers won't go out of their way to produce models specially for our market conditions. We are not UK/Australia where we can justify special treatment.

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On 8/28/2019 at 8:38 PM, Benarsenal said:

Globally, sedan sales are falling as more and more people go for SUVs.

Mitsubishi are also not flush with money so no point for them to spend to make a car that may not be profitable.

Attrage probably does the same job that Lancer did for them last time TBH. Cheap, no frills sedan.

That's what i had highlighted previously.

Mitsubishi is pushing Triton aggressively as SUV rather than pickup in Market like Malaysia/Thailand/Australia.

Range topping Triton has Adaptive Cruise Control, LED headlight, apple carplay/android auto & etc.

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9 hours ago, Benarsenal said:

Maybe it's just me and the fact that I'm working in the car industry, but I'm always puzzled that many Singaporeans have quite a short-sighted view about the car industry.

We are just a small kachang puteh market in terms of volume, we have next to no say on what car manufacturers can offer in terms of product. Maybe the bigger brands (Toyota, Merc, BMW) have a bit of clout but I think hardly enough to influence the factories IMO.

If the carmakers want to discontinue a model even though it sells well and is popular here, we also LLST. Same with what they can offer, at best the distributors can cherry-pick the best fit for our market, but carmakers won't go out of their way to produce models specially for our market conditions. We are not UK/Australia where we can justify special treatment.

I think only Toyota and Honda AD has special treatment for our market.

Toyota Harrier is 1 such exception.  Maybe TMAP combine sales of Harrier in Sg & MY resulted in this special arrangement.

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On 8/26/2019 at 11:37 PM, Pocus said:

I offer my own opinion on some of the car brands and how they have improved or regressed.

My critera is based on:

  • Their performance in the past 10 years
  • Singapore market performance only

 
CONSISTENT BRANDS

Toyota - No longer the mainstay in SG market as its car losing the edge due to pricing and design. Many of it's pie are eaten by it's competitors. Even the days of toyota Taxis are over. The only thing keep Toyota in it's status quo position is it's reputation of reliablility since the 90s and a lineup of whole lot of premium and hybrid cars for the PHV business.

Subaru - Subaru have some hits and misses. Their WRX in the late 2000s are one of the best valued sports cars in the market. There was once the WRX is cheaper than a Colt Version R. However with the high COE and introduction of CEVS, the WRX is no longer competitive. From a Sub 70k car it's new model once hit 180k! Luckily in recent years, Motorimage managed to get get good prices for their popular lineups of XV and Foresters. With the emergence of SUVs and crossovers. Subaru looks to gain back from of it's fame in the late 2000s.

Mazda - Always know to make Beautiful trend setting cars but weak inefficient engines. Mazda hasn't really been catching on, until the new Kodo lineup in the early 2010s. The styling and trend setting as usually but the new skyactive engine improve FC alot while not compromising much on power. The Mazda3 is a looker and the CX5 captured the hearts of buyers again. The popularity of the car is further push by the PHV industry. Towards the end of it's life the Mazda 3 managed to sell at cheap price but many buyers shunt it due to it's PHV status. But with the new Kodo model in 2019, that is set to change. Time will tell if the current Mazda line up can attract.

Mercedes - Most Merc before 2008 are reserved for the alas group of uncles and aunties which is Merc's demography of buyers. But Merc knew they need to do something so they will not miss this group of younger generations growing up with buying power. They did radical changes towards their new models and design philoshphy. The 2008 C class is design to look young and to attract young executives to much success. They further introduce the models with lower displacement to make it more affordable. Seeing the success of the C class, they repeat the same with the A Class. This trendy hatchback is a Golf killer and for the first time, priced it right to be reachable than some Japanese models. Seeing the potential in its A class, Merc introduce different variants of the A class to match the trendy yuppy style to attract buyers. This has made Merc to be as consistent as ever since 10 years ago.

Nissan - They have always been consistent in terms of their lineup, their cars are not too radical nor are they too boring. They have no real technology edge over other brands. They are either too young looking for the uncles or too uncle for the youngsters. But they managed to stay relevant. They managed to jump in the crossover bandwagon with the Qasqhai, the 7 seater SUV with X-trail and the short-lived small turbo cars like the Note and Pulsat. For that, I'd say they are pretty consistent to date. But Nissan must innovate quickly lest they fall into regress mode.

 

GROWING BRANDS

Honda - Honda's got the stuff since the 90s and never loses it's steam. It's Civics are still favourites and it just keep getting better! Not to mention it never fails to nail every segment of the car market. Compact Hatches? they got the Jazz. Emerging Crossover trends? the Vezel covered that. Hybrid? A whole range of regular cars with hybrid setup to choose from. MPV? Go Oddessy! Sports cars? Type R is always there. SUVs? CRV reporting. Honda is on a roll and looking good!!

Hyundai - In the late 2000s, Hyundai makes supar poser cars. Suped up Getz and Tuscani roamed the roads in Hyundai's name, often look down upon and laughed. Their lineup like the Avante and Matrix is known to be ugly and a shoddy copy of popular brands. Look how much they are grown. And they have grown a whole lot! Hyundai has grown 10 folds with a large lineup of reliable cars for everyone, at competitive prices. That is why the Elantra dethroned the Altis and took over the taxi ranges. And being sick of posing, Hyundai got serious with Performance. From the competent Veloster Turbo and finally went hardcore with the i30N. To think we laugh at them 10 years agom now they are unstoppable! 

Volkswagen - VW deserves some credit here. Pre 2006 no one gives a shit about VW. Except of the GTI, their lineup of Mk5 Golfs and Passats are boring AF and expensive. Suddenly all that change with their new TSI engines. Low cc high torque mini turbos. Suddenly They cars are exciting to drive and very much the talk in town. 1.4 twincharger TSI is king. The release of the sport Scirocco further cement the thought that VW is the future. But the techology did not stood the test of time. The infamous DQ200 gearbox issues and the overwhelmed customer support in VCS, marred the fame of VW. Word spread and as more DSG failure is reported, suddenly the showrooms are cold again. Recently, VW begins to understand its failures and learn to manage it. The DQ200 designs have improved and interest are returning. But it is still marred by the COE price and improving competitors. Will VW enjoy simliar success/failure again? One thing is for sure, more people know VW compared to the Mk4/5 Golfs era.


EMERGING BRANDS
Skoda - 1 year ago no one has heard of this brand. Those who did have bittersweet memories of it's tough built and lousy dealer support. With Skoda taking over the dealership by itself (with VSC) Skoda has emerged to a desirable brand for those wanting a VW on a budget. The whole range of Skoda cars, with it's competitive price, effectively push down the sales of VW cars as people can still enjoy TSI engines at lower price. The outgoing models like the Rapid and Octavia are fugly to some but the newer models like the Kodiaq managed to win the hearts of many. WIthin a year, Skoda sold more cars than it did for 5 years and sold more that VW in the first 6 months of 2019. This highlight the potential of this brand.


REGRESSING BRANDS
Ford - Ford in 2008 have exciting lineup. Their Focus, Mondeo an Fiesta managed to capture some buyers even though they are rare sight. But in recent years, their numbers are dwelling and they didn't seem to put the effort to increase their sales. The Mondeo 2.0 Ecoboost and the Kuga are perfect platforms but fall short in the perks their offer. Some the model are either discontinued or dropped. The last nail that hit the coffin is the VES which totally killed them. RIP Ford.

Mitsubishi - Mit cars are popular with Lancer GLX/EX a common sight. Even the other models like the Colt and Grandis are pretty common. But this is more due to the signs of trouble within Japan. Cos if you go Japan, no one drives a Lancer or any Mit cars. You only find their Kei cars with are rebadged of Suzukis/Nissans. The lack of new models to follow kill Mit here. They dropped their Exo X, close their Ralliart store, move out of Leng Kee (to be dishonorably taken over by Kia) and downside their presence. Only to be left with the Attrage to fund them from the PHV business. With the ridiculous package deal offered by C&C, Mitsubishi cars are doomed to oblivion.

 

HONORABLE MENTIONS

Suzuki - Suzuki enjoy unexpected success with their Swift lineup in a time where COE is low and compact hatch are still relevant. Their Swift sport was dubbed the poor man's hot hatch and very popular. But with the COE going north it is illogical to buy small cars at such high prices, Suzuki fade in to the dark in Singapore Scene. Recently their emergence with the new Swift with a competent engine and their Vitara which offer as an alternative to the overpopulated and boring Vezel. With the new Jimny and upcoming Swift Sport, we hope Suzuki will continue to be one of the emerging brands.

Citroen - Citroen is always the niche brand and not very popular due to it's French origins. Like they say the french are good artists but not good engineers. But it had some success with the emergence of diesel vehicles. The Grand Picasso is one of the popular contenders for the shrinking MPV segment and the most popular model for a year or two. Alas the diesel tax structure has change and diesel car are not viable for sale. There goes the short glory of Citroen.

I'm surprised where you have included Honda as a growing brand. My thoughts are that it should be included as a consistent brand for the Singapore market. 

My points are

  1. CR-V -> it is considered a premium vehicle now, however, I do still see quite a number of them on the road. They have been moving quite consistently over the various generations. Although I would choose the Harrier over the CR-V.
  2. HR-V (aka Vezel) has been consistent in terms of sales and widely adopted by PHV companies due to its fuel consumption and low maintenance.
  3. Civics ->  With the new generation, there are so many of them on the roads.

I think the above 3 models and with the new Accord coming in, I would say they should be parked under consistent brands.

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:43 PM, Pocus said:

Sure no problem, all this is my opinion anyway.. But I'd like to hear your perspective and argument on this and why your views differ from me .

I don't think Honda is behind Mazda, Subaru and Nissan!

The chart shows the reg figures for the past 10 years. Last year alone 717 units of Skoda were registered, that means at least 717 people know about Skoda one year ago!  One of my colleagues bought a Skoda Rapid in 1990!

IMG20190830132358.jpg

Edited by Fitvip
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Turbocharged
7 hours ago, Banz86 said:

I'm surprised where you have included Honda as a growing brand. My thoughts are that it should be included as a consistent brand for the Singapore market. 

My points are

  1. CR-V -> it is considered a premium vehicle now, however, I do still see quite a number of them on the road. They have been moving quite consistently over the various generations. Although I would choose the Harrier over the CR-V.
  2. HR-V (aka Vezel) has been consistent in terms of sales and widely adopted by PHV companies due to its fuel consumption and low maintenance.
  3. Civics ->  With the new generation, there are so many of them on the roads.

I think the above 3 models and with the new Accord coming in, I would say they should be parked under consistent brands.

 

3 hours ago, Fitvip said:

I don't think Honda is behind Mazda, Subaru and Nissan!

 

Guys I think you all get me wrong. Consistent means they didn't really improve much or regress much over the 10 years. Its status quo for them.

Growing means they have grown in the past 10 years. 

So as for Honda, I meant they are still growing ever bigger compared to where they are 10 years ago. So if Honda is already bigger than Subaru or Mazda 10 years ago, it means they have grown even bigger and better than before now.. 

Which is what I think based on your examples that you agree too !

Edited by Pocus
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