Difficult PSLE 2019 Math Question!

[Tianmo]

3 minutes ago, Ender said:

O level too chim for me. Unable to relearn the A math. My son is on his own there, only can support for math tuition outside. 

I think they quite advance there.

My son has a 8 gang study grp, and they do homework together and discuss questions in that grp every night.  He also never come ask me any questions regarding his school work, or mayb he know ask me as good as no ask, waste time asking only....

[Enye]

15 minutes ago, Ender said:

O level too chim for me. Unable to relearn the A math. My son is on his own there, only can support for math tuition outside. 

no need relearn A maths lah....but need to refresh a bit

at that level, just need to give them some guidance on possible way of solving the questions and let them work it out on their own

😅

[Sx4falcon]

12 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

Because you have no primary school going children, otherwsie you would know how to solve these type of questions. I remember parents have to attend their math solutuoning class when their kids are  at primary 4.  You cannot try to use algebra to solve it because primary students have not taught  algebra. 

Ya. I still remember when my son come and ask me a math question during his P4. I worked out the answers using algebra, then refer back to his text book and follow the methology in it to get the same answer. After that break up the methology into steps and explain to him step by step. Took me more than an hour to do that. 😌 

Luckily managed to do that, if not lose face liao....  

[Sx4falcon]

1 hour ago, Enye said:

no need relearn A maths lah....but need to refresh a bit

at that level, just need to give them some guidance on possible way of solving the questions and let them work it out on their own

😅

I get my son a math tutor when he start secondary. Now I got time to go jogging. haha.......

 

[Lala81]

Looks like all the lao pehs here quite conversant with algebra in order to teach their kids lol

[Pratakosong]

3 hours ago, Lala81 said:

Looks like all the lao pehs here quite conversant with algebra in order to teach their kids lol

For Primary school I think it is better to learn how to draw the models and teach your kids using models as the go-to method in their tool-kit. 

If we think in terms of algebra and then explain the models using the algebra equations in our head, the kids will not get to see how the models were formed and will get confused.

Nowdays not easy being a parents of a primary school going kid. They should just rename PSLE as "Parents Should Learn Everything".

[Ender]

4 hours ago, Sx4falcon said:

Ya. I still remember when my son come and ask me a math question during his P4. I worked out the answers using algebra, then refer back to his text book and follow the methology in it to get the same answer. After that break up the methology into steps and explain to him step by step. Took me more than an hour to do that. 😌 

Luckily managed to do that, if not lose face liao....  

This one I am not scare to lose face. Initially my son saw me struggled with his math.  I told him I will find all the solutions. Almost every night he will see me working on other P4 schools exam paper myself, and he knows I go to KSP for solutions. After seeing me working as hard as him, he don't dare to be lazy. Every paper I gave him , he will guai guai  do.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Ender

[Ender]

6 hours ago, Enye said:

no need relearn A maths lah....but need to refresh a bit

at that level, just need to give them some guidance on possible way of solving the questions and let them work it out on their own

😅

Refresh also I don't understand his A math.. This really need to spend some money on tutor. 

[Pratakosong]

In the past, parents would write in to the ST forum whenever the PSLE math exam is too challenging, i guess it's time to upgrade to the writing and sharing of facebook posts!

https://www.facebook.com/TheIndependentSG/posts/1569899019818401

 

[Hiphiphoray]

15 hours ago, Pratakosong said:

For Primary school I think it is better to learn how to draw the models and teach your kids using models as the go-to method in their tool-kit. 

If we think in terms of algebra and then explain the models using the algebra equations in our head, the kids will not get to see how the models were formed and will get confused.

Nowdays not easy being a parents of a primary school going kid. They should just rename PSLE as "Parents Should Learn Everything".

Paper 2 long questions is always the killer...…….if you can get your kid to overcome this hurdle, the rest will be smooth sailing.

What I taught my son to effectively tackle 4 & 5 marks questions within a standard 5 min time frame is to ALWAYS consider Model first. Bocs its usually the easiest and quickest way to tackle the question. (but not always)

If cant do it, then clean off the model and try solving using Ratio. Lastly if all else fail, then use the long-winded algebra method ( we nickname this "equation method" bcos we are trying to form 2 equations from the question). Actually my son find "equation" model easier to do.....lollllllll. Hence u and see his algebra method attempt on question 16...…...lol

The other main killers include the so call pattern/figure question (question 17 this year), "water tap questions", Dist/Sp/Time" questions.  The rest I isolate them into "Miscs".

And there is also the time management factor and recheck process.

Paper 2 question 1 to 17 DIE-DIE must be attempted within 45 mins. Any question that needs more than 1 min of reading to understand and lift the pen...must SKIP IMMEDIATELY without delay. Any question exceeding the 1 mark 1 min rule...SKIP!!! We nickname these BLANK!! Usually he will have 2-4 of them at the end of Q17.

At the end of Q17, go back to Q1 and recheck. DO NOT ATTEMPT THE BLANK QUESTION. Recheck is not just eye power only. Recheck workings first then the calculations. He is trained to read the question and point at his workings. Every information in the question MUST be stated in his workings. Then the calculator will conclude the checking and move on to next Q.

Once rechecking is completed, he usually have between 20 mins to 40 mins left to tackle the BLANK questions...…….depending on the difficulty of the maths paper. It varies. Now Total focus on the BLANK Questions only. And more often than not, he could solve most of the blank questions. He can tell me which of his answers is 100% correct, which is only 50/50, he even got 70/30 and 30/70 opinions….and of course.....0% sure die...........lol

My self-invent teaching method may not be perfect but its my best attempt to help my son tackle maths exams effectively and as less stressful as possible...…….

Looking back, there was lots of ups and downs, frustrations, and sweat, sometimes even thots of giving up. Whatever the outcome is...…...we have done our best. I am glad that I went through this journey with my son. Today is the last PSLE paper, and he can finally resume his childhood activities. He earned it.

 

 

[Ender]

Math olympaid type of pattern question always put it to the last question to tackle. This is what I told my children. Don't waste precious time thinking how to get the 'formula' to it. Use the extra time to taCKLE if you can finish your paper early.

[Pratakosong]

The issue made it to the national broadsheet! 
I don't think the PSLE 2019 questions deserve to be classified as IQ type questions though. I mean those mensa level IQ questions would be an order magnitude tougher!

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/some-parents-take-issue-with-psle-2019-math-paper-and-call-it-exceptionally

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Pratakosong

[Pratakosong]

12 hours ago, Hiphiphoray said:

Paper 2 long questions is always the killer...…….if you can get your kid to overcome this hurdle, the rest will be smooth sailing.

What I taught my son to effectively tackle 4 & 5 marks questions within a standard 5 min time frame is to ALWAYS consider Model first. Bocs its usually the easiest and quickest way to tackle the question. (but not always)

If cant do it, then clean off the model and try solving using Ratio. Lastly if all else fail, then use the long-winded algebra method ( we nickname this "equation method" bcos we are trying to form 2 equations from the question). Actually my son find "equation" model easier to do.....lollllllll. Hence u and see his algebra method attempt on question 16...…...lol

The other main killers include the so call pattern/figure question (question 17 this year), "water tap questions", Dist/Sp/Time" questions.  The rest I isolate them into "Miscs".

And there is also the time management factor and recheck process.

Paper 2 question 1 to 17 DIE-DIE must be attempted within 45 mins. Any question that needs more than 1 min of reading to understand and lift the pen...must SKIP IMMEDIATELY without delay. Any question exceeding the 1 mark 1 min rule...SKIP!!! We nickname these BLANK!! Usually he will have 2-4 of them at the end of Q17.

At the end of Q17, go back to Q1 and recheck. DO NOT ATTEMPT THE BLANK QUESTION. Recheck is not just eye power only. Recheck workings first then the calculations. He is trained to read the question and point at his workings. Every information in the question MUST be stated in his workings. Then the calculator will conclude the checking and move on to next Q.

Once rechecking is completed, he usually have between 20 mins to 40 mins left to tackle the BLANK questions...…….depending on the difficulty of the maths paper. It varies. Now Total focus on the BLANK Questions only. And more often than not, he could solve most of the blank questions. He can tell me which of his answers is 100% correct, which is only 50/50, he even got 70/30 and 30/70 opinions….and of course.....0% sure die...........lol

My self-invent teaching method may not be perfect but its my best attempt to help my son tackle maths exams effectively and as less stressful as possible...…….

Looking back, there was lots of ups and downs, frustrations, and sweat, sometimes even thots of giving up. Whatever the outcome is...…...we have done our best. I am glad that I went through this journey with my son. Today is the last PSLE paper, and he can finally resume his childhood activities. He earned it.

 

 

This is really true dedication! I think you need to write a "Parent's Guide To Surviving PSLE"! Will benefit the rest of us who will be going through the process in the next few years!

[Hiphiphoray]

Can I ask the maths expert here on the egg tart question.

My son got the answers as 46 tarts and $1.53, same as me...…….but the outside world says the answer is 40 tarts and $1.80. 😒

I cannot let go of this...……..cant eat cant sleep......but my son already lost in the Plug-G world liao...........lol.

 

[1fast1]

22 minutes ago, Hiphiphoray said:

Can I ask the maths expert here on the egg tart question.

My son got the answers as 46 tarts and $1.53, same as me...…….but the outside world says the answer is 40 tarts and $1.80. 😒

I cannot let go of this...……..cant eat cant sleep......but my son already lost in the Plug-G world liao...........lol.

 

Unfortunately you and your son have a major misunderstanding of percentage discounts. 

When something is discounted (decreased) by 15 percent, its price becomes 85 percent of what it was originally. 

What you're given is the discounted price. To calculate the original, you should take 61.20 x 100/85 to find the undiscounted price of Jamie's donuts. 

What you and your son very likely did is 61.20 x 115/100, which would only make sense if they told you the original price was 61.20, and they asked you to calculate the price after a 15 percent mark-up (increase).

A lot of smart people trip over this basic thing which is actually very important in everyday commerce. The author of Dilbert, Scott Adams, a MENSA member, was also caught out when he made a strip with this error (albeit in a more subtle fashion). 

Just in case you can't see what I'm talking about:

The correct way:

Jamie's undiscounted price would've been 61.20 x 100/85 = 72, which is 72 - 61.20 = 10.80 more than the other guy paid. So 6 donuts is 10.80, and one donut is 1.80, so the other guy bought 61.20/1.80 = 34 donuts and Jamie bought 34+6=40.

Your (erroneous) way:

Jamie's undiscounted price would've been 61.20 x 115/100 = 70.38, which is 70.38 - 61.20 = 9.18 more than the other guy paid. So 6 donuts is 9.18 and one donut is 1.53, so the other guy bought 61.20/1.53 = 40 donuts and Jamie bought 40+6=46.

You'd probably have figured out something was wrong if you'd gotten ugly answers, but the trend now is to set questions that return reasonably nice answers if you make a common error just to mess with you haha 😂. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Turboflat4

[Dleodleo]

42 minutes ago, Pratakosong said:

The issue made it to the national broadsheet! 
I don't think the PSLE 2019 questions deserve to be classified as IQ type questions though. I mean those mensa level IQ questions would be an order magnitude tougher!

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/education/some-parents-take-issue-with-psle-2019-math-paper-and-call-it-exceptionally

 

Aiyo!  I dun understand why these parents make a big huha about the Math paper.  It's already over and why can't they just relax?  There's sure few difficult questions in national exam.  These parents must be the kiasu one who scare these questions will affect their chances of getting A*.

My son is P6 this year and he's weak in Math.  I dun even bother about these difficult questions.  Dun knw just skip or anyhow do lor.  

To me as long as he pass his PSLE and promote to secondary school and dun go normal tech can liao.

PSLE is already over!  It's party time! 😜😜😜

Edited October 1, 2019 by Dleodleo

[1fast1]

Just now, Dleodleo said:

Aiyo!  I dun understand why these parents make a big huha about the Math paper.  It's already over and why can't they just relax?  There's sure few difficult questions in national exam.  These parents must be the kiasu one who scare these questions will affect the chance of getting A*.

My son is P6 this year and he's weak in Math.  I dun even bother about these difficult questions.  Dun knw just skip or anyhow do lor.  

To me as long as he pass his PSLE and promote to secondary school and dun go normal tech can liao.

PSLE is already over!  It's party time! 😜😜😜

Don't disagree with most of what you say but why denigrate those students who go to N(T)?

[Ender]

18 minutes ago, Hiphiphoray said:

Can I ask the maths expert here on the egg tart question.

My son got the answers as 46 tarts and $1.53, same as me...…….but the outside world says the answer is 40 tarts and $1.80. 😒

I cannot let go of this...……..cant eat cant sleep......but my son already lost in the Plug-G world liao...........lol.

 

Repost the question here for other parent's benefit.

Quote

 

Jamie and Xi used $61.20 each to buy some egg tarts.Jamie has a 15% discount coupon and bought 6 more egss tarts than Xi

a) How many egg tarts did Jamie buy? 

b) What is the cost of an egg tart? 

 

When Jamie got a discount of 15%, that means with $61.20, he can buy number of egg tarts that is worth $72 at original price. (from 61.2/0.85)

Suppose you had exactly $20 to buy a $20 MSW.  The seller happy gave you discount 50%. Wouldn't you be able to buy two msw worth $40 ?

That discount gave him an extra $10.80 worth of egg tart.

6 tarts => $10.80

1 tart => $1.80

Jamie bought $72/1.80 = 40 tarts.