Rental of MPV and driving in Hokkaido during winter

[Atrecord]

1 hour ago, Heartlander said:

OK I can only advise on use of Alphard, but not on winter driving as never done that before.

Personally I have driven Alphard in Japan with 8pax and have owned a 2015 Vellfire in Singapore for 1 year, but that was when my kids are still quite young. In Japan I rented through the Toyota rental as its rental fleet are very new. I can still remember mine has clocked very low mileage when I collected it, less than 10k. For rental, the Alphard/Vellfire only provide the 8-seater variant, meaning 2+3+3. But with last row being 2 individual seats actually, better do the 2+3+2 arrangement. The code is W3. The triplets are definitely out of question as too small for such a big group.

https://rent.toyota.co.jp/eng/service/wagon.html

The beauty of 2015 Alphard/Vellfire is that the 2nd and last row seats are slidable forth and back, so it is possible to slide the seats for max cargo load with bearable knee rooms for the rear passengers. What I think can work is, with the tall car height, you can definitely put the 2 pcs of 28" luggages upright at the rear boot space. Then you can slide the last row backward to the max, follow by 2nd row considering enough knee room for the last row passengers. Now you would have created a huge pocket off space between the first row and 2nd row seats, where you can now try to stack the remaining luggages up. The 2nd row passengers might have to put their feet on the luggages. Not so comfortable but definitely do-able.

Best would be to get help from friends/colleague here who own this ride if they can spare 20min for you to try out first. I would not mind if I still have the ride, but too bad let go since last year already. With such a bug group of people, better not leave room for last minute surprise unless all are your close family and easy going type..

If you are adamant to put all together in one car, the next feasible alternative to rent a Hi-ace passenger van (V3) which is available only in the japan site:

https://rent.toyota.co.jp/service/car/class/charge.aspx?searchKbn=6

The car is only 4.7m long, 1.7m wide, and 2m tall, so definitely drive like a car. As shown in the attached file, it can accommodate max 9 passengers and still have huge space for many luggages. But downside is seats not as comfortable as Alphard/Vellfire which is obvious. But it can definitely do the job.

Hi-ace Space.pdf

So in summary, better do a try out on a actual Alphard/Vellfire as it is the best option. If option 1 fail, and if still want to keep to 1 car for whatever reason, then Hi-ace passenger car is an option, but can book only through the jap site. If I were you, I would bite the bullet and take the Alphard/Vellfire option as I do not like to split the family when going holiday if possible. But that is just me lah haha. Do not blame me if you follow and did not work out haha.

Thanks!

Ha ha, I tot you rented Elgrand, so it was Alphard...

If we slide the 2nd row and 3rd row seats to all just have enough knee space, and not as luxurious as when all spaced out, will the resulting 'boot space' betw 3rd row and tailgate, be very big?

I'd rented Hyundai iMax twice in Aust, and the boot space is huge, sure can swallow up all the luggages we're likely to bring. And i think Alphard is quite close in size leh. The leg space was decent in the iMax, but the luggage space was incredible. Oh, the 3rd row seat can't slide front/back, so passenger comfort is ok, but not superb.

Hearing what you'd said, i was quite tempted to go with Alphard/Elgrand, but now my BIL just said they're bringing 2 x 28" luggages instead... so now am a bit undecided again 😂

[Heartlander]

3 hours ago, Atrecord said:

Thanks!

Ha ha, I tot you rented Elgrand, so it was Alphard...

If we slide the 2nd row and 3rd row seats to all just have enough knee space, and not as luxurious as when all spaced out, will the resulting 'boot space' betw 3rd row and tailgate, be very big?

I'd rented Hyundai iMax twice in Aust, and the boot space is huge, sure can swallow up all the luggages we're likely to bring. And i think Alphard is quite close in size leh. The leg space was decent in the iMax, but the luggage space was incredible. Oh, the 3rd row seat can't slide front/back, so passenger comfort is ok, but not superb.

Hearing what you'd said, i was quite tempted to go with Alphard/Elgrand, but now my BIL just said they're bringing 2 x 28" luggages instead... so now am a bit undecided again 😂

Actually the best thing you can do is to visit a Toyota showroom with a measuring tape.

Option1: adjust the 1st and 2nd and 3rd row to suit your height level. Then measure how much space there is at the boot. You should be able to use that as reference to see if all your luggages can be fitted in. Measure also the space available in 2nd row and 3rd row to see if can fit the smaller luggages there.

Option 2: adjust last row to the depth of the largest luggages, then shift 3 row seat to that position. Then adjust 2nd row accordingly. Then measure the space created between first row and 2nd row to see if can fit the rest of luggages. Of course calculation can do at home.

Option 3: push 3rd row al the way to the back. Then adjust 2nd row accordingly to the correct knee room for 3rd row passengers. Then measure the space created between first row and 2nd row. Then go back calculate if can fit all luggages into the space.

But the above need to have a bit of thick skin though haha. You can also go without a measuring tape and use judgement to decide agar agar also can. Just bring along a taller kid to execute the plan faster.

If is marginal, I would say go for it. Else better get Hi ace and a compact car where the formal can take all the luggages and a few passengers. The compact car just need to take the driver with 1 or 2 passengers. The cost I believe would have come close to that of renting a Alphard. Tell yourself you have already done due diligence, and this really bopian.

Btw the Vellfire I had did come with storage space under the boot floor board where you can put a space wheel and some tools. But the space is definitely not enough to put the smallest luggage there.

Also wrt to air conditioning, hot air will be blown if you set temperature below the outside temperature which is same everywhere lah. Really warm air. I still remember everyone rushing into the car in the open carpark after having meals in restaurants. If have those warm seats function even lagi better.

 

 

[Volvobrick]

OK I have driven twice in Hokkaido during winter, once in Alphard Hybrid 4WD actually. There were 4 adults 2 teens, and barely enough space, using one of the 2 3rd row seats for luggage (3 large hard bags, 1 large soft plus a few carry-one's). So if 7 pax, I doubt you can make it as all the seats will be taken, plus you will have more bags. 

The driving itself was OK, except when once immediately after snowfall I couldn't see where the road ends on both sides!  And give plenty of distance at junctions when stopping. I forgot and skidded 2 or 3 times. After the first time, you will definitely be alert for the rest of the drive! 

I had to clear this before driving too:

 

I am looking forward to my 3rd drive there next month (this time in Outback)! 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Volvobrick

[Voodooman]

4 hours ago, Atrecord said:

Some MPVs like Estima, Ody, and Kia Carnival (which I'd rented in NZ), the 3rd row seats are fixed, in that they cannot slide front/back. Can only tilt the backrest. For these MPVs, they all have a decently deep and long'ish sunken luggage space behind the 3rd row. After putting the 24" luggages inside, can still stack others on top of them, so there's quite a bit of luggage space. Leg space in the 2nd and 3rd rows are manageable, but not outrageous.

Alphard on the other hand, the 3rd row can slide v near the tailgate, which gives lots of legroom, but doesn't have the big sunken luggage space like Estima leh. At least the 7-seater that BM sells, doesn't have the sunken luggage space. Good for passengers, but not much space for luggage...

Did you see any sunken luggage space behind the 3rd row of Alphard?

Don’t have IIRC but you are right, the seats can be adjusted, thus allowing cargo bags to lay flat and be stacked one on top of each other. 

 

[Voodooman]

19 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

OK I have driven twice in Hokkaido during winter, once in Alphard Hybrid 4WD actually. There were 4 adults 2 teens, and barely enough space, using one of the 2 3rd row seats for luggage (3 large hard bags, 1 large soft plus a few carry-one's). So if 7 pax, I doubt you can make it as all the seats will be taken, plus you will have more bags. 

The driving itself was OK, except when once immediately after snowfall I couldn't see where the road ends on both sides!  And give plenty of distance at junctions when stopping. I forgot and skidded 2 or 3 times. After the first time, you will definitely be alert for the rest of the drive! 

I had to clear this before driving too:

 

I am looking forward to my 3rd drive there next month (this time in Outback)! 

 

You skidded on a 4WD with winter tyres?  I skidded on a 2WD before, freaking scary.

The roads were icy. On 4WD, it will skid a bit but traction usually comes back quickly.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Voodooman

[Volvobrick]

9 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

You skidded on a 4WD with winter tyres?  I skidded on a 2WD before, freaking scary.

The roads were icy. On 4WD, it will skid a bit but traction usually comes back quickly.

 

 

When braking to a stop, it doesn't matter how many wheels are driven... 😂 

[Carbon82]

@Atrecord not entire space under the 3rd row are sunken, on a third the side, so probably good for some loose baggage instead of regular luggages.

BTW, if my memory don't fail me, when you slide the 3rd row to the forward most position, can store up to 4x 28" luggages. Something like these:

[t0y0ta]

7 hours ago, Atrecord said:

We'll prefer to stay in one vehicle leh... my BIL has driven in winter before, but i haven't...

So for the Alphard, can i check whether there's any luggage space below the floorboard behind the 3rd row? If there is, then that can hold some luggage, which means got less/fewer to squeeze - if we go for it.

BM Alphard - 7-seater - doesn't have the luggage space there, but Jap Toyota website showed has... 🤔

I saw Elgrand has a bit of this space, but it's not as big as Estima apparently...

You can check out the 3rd row luggage area from the SGCARMART review pictures:

https://www.sgcarmart.com/news/gallery.php?AID=905&CUR=3&TYPE=reviews#photo

You definitely can squeeze some of your 20" luggage under the 3rd row seats or the 2nd row seats. Note that rental Alphard will not have the 2 captain seats in 2nd row it will be just a 3 seat bench which I believe has empty space below.

[kobayashiGT]

On 11/16/2019 at 11:27 PM, Atrecord said:

Am looking for some advice:

We're going to Hokkaido next month, and are looking at renting a large MPV, so hope to get some tips and information on:

1) which MPV is good/best

2) any tips on driving in winter

There will be 7 of us on the trip. 6 adults/children who are 1.7-1.8 m tall, and one 6-yo kid who needs a booster seat. There will also be quite a bit of luggage, tentatively 1-2 pcs 28", 3 pcs 24", 2 pcs 20" luggages.

Looking at the options for MPVs, the larger ones are either Toyota Alphard or Nissan Elgrand, followed by the slightly smaller ones of Toyota Noah or Nissan Serena. Any bigger will be the Toyota Hiace van.

Is there any possibility of accommodating all 7, plus the luggages in Alphard/Elgrand, or is it necessary to go for Hiace?

I vaguely remember that @Heartlander had mentioned before renting Elgrand during a Japan trip, and also owned an Alphard before here? Care to share your experience please? Anyone else with knowledge/experience of these 2 - your opinion is welcome.

If we shift the 3 rows of seats to be more 'forward', will the luggage/boot space behind 3rd row seat, be sufficient for the luggages that we have?

 

Then on #2, driving in winter/snow, apart from going slow, and avoiding icy roads, what else should we look out for? Winter tyres are standard, and there's 4WD option for the vehicles.

Thanks in advance.

You can try the FMJ car rental package. The good thing is everything is in English and payment is in SGD.

https://drive.followmejapan.com.sg/

[Heartlander]

Actually another possible approach is to use only smaller luggages of 24"".

For 7 pax, there should not be more that 7 of smaller luggages with backpacks. Advantage of smaller luggages is that you can put them at the foot well of second and 3rd row seats easily, then left 3 to be put in the boot which should be no problem after sliding the seats around. The backpacks can be stacked up in the boot as well.

But this need trying out also lah. Try to put a luggage horizontally to see if 2 of them can fit at footwell of each row. Can even put them flat on the floor if got enough space. And all passengers must be ok with this sitting style. Can take off shoes if don't want to dirty the luggages.

Also must check the luggage allowance under the airline if can be done.

 

[Atrecord]

13 hours ago, Heartlander said:

Actually the best thing you can do is to visit a Toyota showroom with a measuring tape.

Option1: adjust the 1st and 2nd and 3rd row to suit your height level. Then measure how much space there is at the boot. You should be able to use that as reference to see if all your luggages can be fitted in. Measure also the space available in 2nd row and 3rd row to see if can fit the smaller luggages there.

Option 2: adjust last row to the depth of the largest luggages, then shift 3 row seat to that position. Then adjust 2nd row accordingly. Then measure the space created between first row and 2nd row to see if can fit the rest of luggages. Of course calculation can do at home.

Option 3: push 3rd row al the way to the back. Then adjust 2nd row accordingly to the correct knee room for 3rd row passengers. Then measure the space created between first row and 2nd row. Then go back calculate if can fit all luggages into the space.

But the above need to have a bit of thick skin though haha. You can also go without a measuring tape and use judgement to decide agar agar also can. Just bring along a taller kid to execute the plan faster.

If is marginal, I would say go for it. Else better get Hi ace and a compact car where the formal can take all the luggages and a few passengers. The compact car just need to take the driver with 1 or 2 passengers. The cost I believe would have come close to that of renting a Alphard. Tell yourself you have already done due diligence, and this really bopian.

Btw the Vellfire I had did come with storage space under the boot floor board where you can put a space wheel and some tools. But the space is definitely not enough to put the smallest luggage there.

Also wrt to air conditioning, hot air will be blown if you set temperature below the outside temperature which is same everywhere lah. Really warm air. I still remember everyone rushing into the car in the open carpark after having meals in restaurants. If have those warm seats function even lagi better.

Ha ha... thanks for your fantastic suggestion suggestion.

My skin... a bit not so thick leh. But actually i also thought of it, and had on Sat got to BM and TC to check out Alphard and Elgrand... Just never brought measuring tape nor brought kids to try for leg space. 😅 I maybe should have, but that will make the SE really pester me, i suspect, thinking i'm so serious...

But I managed to remember a friend who drives an Alphard, and he was so helpful that he took a few luggages and put in the car to try out for size and showed me. It seems like it's a tad ambitious to try to squeeze 3 x 28" plus 3 x 24" inside, despite moving the seats to the front, as the 3rd row will have to be quite upright with real tight leg space - very uncomfortable for the passengers.

It's really a pity. If there is a deep sunken luggage space like in Estima - and the seats still can shift front/back - then i'm sure it would work. Sigh... just can't have best of both worlds.

So now looks like we should go for the safer bet of getting a Hiace, which should have no problem squeezing in all the people and also luggages. But i think the ride comfort will be nowhere near the Alphard.

Warm seat function - which we will think is a stupid idea here in SG - will certainly come in v useful... But looks like no hope liao. Quite sure Hiace will not have any such bells and whistles...

[Atrecord]

16 hours ago, Volvobrick said:

OK I have driven twice in Hokkaido during winter, once in Alphard Hybrid 4WD actually. There were 4 adults 2 teens, and barely enough space, using one of the 2 3rd row seats for luggage (3 large hard bags, 1 large soft plus a few carry-one's). So if 7 pax, I doubt you can make it as all the seats will be taken, plus you will have more bags. 

The driving itself was OK, except when once immediately after snowfall I couldn't see where the road ends on both sides!  And give plenty of distance at junctions when stopping. I forgot and skidded 2 or 3 times. After the first time, you will definitely be alert for the rest of the drive! 

I had to clear this before driving too:

 

I am looking forward to my 3rd drive there next month (this time in Outback)! 

 

Wow, thanks for sharing! It looks like Alphard is cannot liao...

Lucky the car not buried in snow 😂

Shit, if can't see the road, then how to drive huh?

And when are you going next month? Outback is Subaru? How many pax going?

[Atrecord]

15 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

@Atrecord not entire space under the 3rd row are sunken, on a third the side, so probably good for some loose baggage instead of regular luggages.

BTW, if my memory don't fail me, when you slide the 3rd row to the forward most position, can store up to 4x 28" luggages. Something like these:

Thanks! I saw the photo with the flower pot too, that's why i asked those who owns or had driven Alphard before, whether got the sunken well or not lor... But it looks like even if have, is not big/deep, so can write off.

As for the photo with all the luggages standing, I think the 3rd row seat is going to be 90 deg, sure buay tahan 😅

Think Alphard is not a safe bet... Just dunno whether Elgrand got any better hope or not? Elgrand got a bit of sunken luggage space, but not deep and wide/long so might not be able to put 24" luggage (as we did for Estima/Carnival last time)...

But safest is to get Hiace liao...

[Atrecord]

15 hours ago, t0y0ta said:

Note that rental Alphard will not have the 2 captain seats in 2nd row it will be just a 3 seat bench which I believe has empty space below.

This is interesting - that there's empty space below the 2nd row bench. But it's likely 60/40 split type, so wonder how much space is there that can put in luggages...

[Atrecord]

3 hours ago, kobayashiGT said:

You can try the FMJ car rental package. The good thing is everything is in English and payment is in SGD.

https://drive.followmejapan.com.sg/

Thanks! Just tried but seems like they don't have any outlet in Chitose airport where we'll be landing, and also maybe they don't have big MPV leh 😓

[Atrecord]

3 hours ago, Heartlander said:

Actually another possible approach is to use only smaller luggages of 24"".

For 7 pax, there should not be more that 7 of smaller luggages with backpacks. Advantage of smaller luggages is that you can put them at the foot well of second and 3rd row seats easily, then left 3 to be put in the boot which should be no problem after sliding the seats around. The backpacks can be stacked up in the boot as well.

But this need trying out also lah. Try to put a luggage horizontally to see if 2 of them can fit at footwell of each row. Can even put them flat on the floor if got enough space. And all passengers must be ok with this sitting style. Can take off shoes if don't want to dirty the luggages.

Also must check the luggage allowance under the airline if can be done.

hmm... we're quite come to terms that MPV cannot liao, but now that you mention this...

Do you recall whether the 2nd row bench seat for the 8-seater, below the seat can put luggage or not huh? Now trying to see if break down into more and smaller (maybe even 20") pieces, will change anything 😅

[kobayashiGT]

1 minute ago, Atrecord said:

Thanks! Just tried but seems like they don't have any outlet in Chitose airport where we'll be landing, and also maybe they don't have big MPV leh 😓

Oic! hahah. Then my help is until here le.

[Heartlander]

7 minutes ago, Atrecord said:

hmm... we're quite come to terms that MPV cannot liao, but now that you mention this...

Do you recall whether the 2nd row bench seat for the 8-seater, below the seat can put luggage or not huh? Now trying to see if break down into more and smaller (maybe even 20") pieces, will change anything 😅

Alphard/Vellfire for rental in Japan only got 8-seater and fabric only.

Both rows seems seated quite high. And the last row in last picture should have been pushed forth to the max, seems can put 4 of smaller luggages upright. If can, then the rest can put infront on the floor flat.

Best is trouble your friend again to try out with actual luggages you using.