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Wind30

Facebook instructed by POFMA Office to publish correction notice

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I just hope Singaporeans remember this two incidents, presidential elections and the fake news law come election time. 

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4 hours ago, Solar said:

They need to come up with a better way to deal with fake news.. just look at the recent HK riots.. social media have been reporting police brutality for example, but skipped many key info why it led to that event.

In my opinion we should not allow ourselves to get into that situation that fake news is left unchecked.

POFMA is definitely not the way.

I heating up my popcorn liao.

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22 hours ago, Solar said:

They need to come up with a better way to deal with fake news.. just look at the recent HK riots.. social media have been reporting police brutality for example, but skipped many key info why it led to that event.

In my opinion we should not allow ourselves to get into that situation that fake news is left unchecked.

Frankly, if people choose to read from FB, Twitter, MCF , Youtube, or any other social media and take the 'News' as gospel truth, nobody can help them. These are for causal kopitiam chit chat. Like the uncle who claimed he just climbed mount Everest within a day.  When MP posted on FB, I think it is just a joke he is sharing lor. 

If you need to find out anything, you check official website. Want to apply BTO, you check FB? If official websites are hacked, then the respective organisations need to address that. Since when everything is through 'word of mouth' as facts? 

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22 hours ago, Wind30 said:

If the government go harder on Facebook, I am more convinced that they are trading off Singapore economy wellbeing just for ... I am not sure what did pap gain out of this episode. 
just a stupid move on pap part. 

It's not about defending Singapore... its about defending PAP... always was first priority. 

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3 minutes ago, Playtime said:

It's not about defending Singapore... its about defending PAP... always was first priority. 

but I am pretty sure PAP got hurt in this episode. nobody won, except maybe states times review as I bet their traffic went through the roof...

Notice that this incident is no longer reported in mainstream media.

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On 12/1/2019 at 11:22 AM, Carbon82 said:

I remember I cited the NKF case in the POFMA thread, that if the stronger party is withholding information and claim victim, is it still a fake news per se? 

Both Durai and kong hee successfully sued people for libel and "fake news" that were later proven to be true all the while. ... and there probably got plenty others. It's about power. 

 

POFMA is all about controlling tbe narrative and propaganda space.. never about facts per se.

It's basically looking at a half filled glass and saying I will sue anyone who says it's half empty. 

 

Govt speak with fork tongue one. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

but I am pretty sure PAP got hurt in this episode. nobody won, except maybe states times review as I bet their traffic went through the roof...

Notice that this incident is no longer reported in mainstream media.

Yup... they screwed up..

If you also remember nkf... tt durai Must have stepped on the wrong toes,  the papers were FULLLLL  of him day in day out.. but once the talk changed to who were his alleged friends and backers.. and the shit started to splash back.. it became quiet practically overnight too 🤔... unlike ahtc... more episodes than star wars...

 

 

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Anyone is entitled to defend against falsehoods or misrepresentation regardless of the media.

SG gov is famous for doing this long before FB exist... and has track records suing influential US-based papers like AWSJ, Times, NYT etc.

All done though the court of law. What's wrong with that?

Don't tell me some people today still got that AMTK mind-set and still regard what ever value, words  and position they take as gospel or god  ? [:p]

 

On 11/30/2019 at 5:52 PM, Wind30 said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/states-times-review-pofma-facebook-post-fake-news-shanmugam-12133420
 

Facebook complied but putting a link at the bottom. I think that is a pretty fair outcome.

singapore wanted them to put the correction notice on the top of the post.

i think the government realised how stupid their law is as in reality u can never takedown fake news. 

It’s much better to do clarifications... if the public don’t trust u, it points to a more serious problem. This way, there is a incentive for the government to build trusts with the people.

I bet the state times review Facebook page hits shot through the roof. So many other articles there... are they going to correct every post. If they never correct, does it mean the other posts are true news??

i think this stupid fake news law really need to be used rarely and cleverly. Not like this.

 

Edited by Wishcumsback

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3 minutes ago, Wishcumsback said:

Anyone is entitled to defend against falsehoods or misrepresentation regardless of the media.

SG gov is famous for doing this long before FB exist... and has track records suing influential US-based papers like AWSJ, Times, NYT etc.

All done though the court of law. What's wrong with that?

Don't tell me some people today still got that AMTK mind-set and still regard what ever value, words  and position they take as gospel or god  ? [:p]

 

 

There are many difference between NYT and facebook...

The public don't really mind NYT being banned in singapore but what would you feel if facebook pulls out of Singapore? It is easy to strong arm NYT as there is a way out but I think our current government does not understand the present situation. 

Not just the public and the economy of Singapore will take a big hit. Singapore has always try to play by the rules of the international community because we have to. The fake news law is so draconian as it basically gives the minister the power to DECIDE first what is fake news and take those down and then allow appeal...

Going against the accepted norms of international MNCs will impact our competitiveness. Is this tradeoff worth it? What does the fake news law buy us?

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2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

There are many difference between NYT and facebook...

The public don't really mind NYT being banned in singapore but what would you feel if facebook pulls out of Singapore? It is easy to strong arm NYT as there is a way out but I think our current government does not understand the present situation. 

Not just the public and the economy of Singapore will take a big hit. Singapore has always try to play by the rules of the international community because we have to. The fake news law is so draconian as it basically gives the minister the power to DECIDE first what is fake news and take those down and then allow appeal...

Going against the accepted norms of international MNCs will impact our competitiveness. Is this tradeoff worth it? What does the fake news law buy us?

I am not sure if you are aware what you have insinuated here - that SG competitiveness will be threatened by not playing by your definition of  "rule of international community".

Can you tell me what is that RULE ? Is there any single set of law or UN mandate that decides how to each sovereign state should handle their internet medium and fake news ?

Do tell.

Oh, BTW, in case you do know, those Western papers which had offended the SG gov wasn't "banned" from being sold in SG - they are just not allowed to sell their papers with adverts on it. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Wishcumsback said:

I am not sure if you are aware what you have insinuated here - that SG competitiveness will be threatened by not playing by your definition of  "rule of international community".

Can you tell me what is that RULE ? Is there any single set of law or UN mandate that decides how to each sovereign state should handle their internet medium and fake news ?

Do tell.

Oh, BTW, in case you do know, those Western papers which had offended the SG gov wasn't "banned" from being sold in SG - they are just not allowed to sell their papers with adverts on it. 

 

I am not insinuating. I think I am stating a pretty obvious fact. "

SG competitiveness will be threatened by not playing to the rules of international community.

I am surprised I even need to explain it. Do you live in Singapore?

MNCs invest in singapore because we hold in general the similar values. Remember MNCs answer to their shareholders, CEOs and those people have certain values.

Example, some companies choose not to invest in China but in singapore even though the conditions like workforce, market is better in china. Reason could be we protect IP better, there is less conditions like forced technology transfer. Sure we can have our own laws... similarly companies can decide if obeying our laws is too tough, they will just pack up and go. There are many recent examples, like bicycle rentals, etc. 

It is a fact that Facebook will not like this fake news law. It is obvious this Fake news law is not helping to attract MNCs like Facebook to set up shop here. Whether the benefits of this fake news law outweighs the detriments is up for debate. 

Personally I think the law could have it uses and although I am against it, I can see cases whereby it could be necessary. Unfortunately, this example which the government has evoked the law is so ... unnecessary and stupid. 

Looking at your posts, you are just arguing over semantics... 

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19 hours ago, Wind30 said:

I am not insinuating. I think I am stating a pretty obvious fact. "SG competitiveness will be threatened by not playing to the rules of international community.I am surprised I even need to explain it. Do you live in Singapore?

MNCs invest in singapore because we hold in general the similar values. Remember MNCs answer to their shareholders, CEOs and those people have certain values.

Example, some companies choose not to invest in China but in singapore even though the conditions like workforce, market is better in china. Reason could be we protect IP better, there is less conditions like forced technology transfer. Sure we can have our own laws... similarly companies can decide if obeying our laws is too tough, they will just pack up and go. There are many recent examples, like bicycle rentals, etc. 

It is a fact that Facebook will not like this fake news law. It is obvious this Fake news law is not helping to attract MNCs like Facebook to set up shop here. Whether the benefits of this fake news law outweighs the detriments is up for debate. 

Personally I think the law could have it uses and although I am against it, I can see cases whereby it could be necessary. Unfortunately, this example which the government has evoked the law is so ... unnecessary and stupid. 

Looking at your posts, you are just arguing over semantics... 

Omg...IP protection has NOTHING to do with fake news - You are either  confused or just trying to pass both off as the same thing - I am surprised that I need to explain that to you.

2ndly,  you fail to address what you meant by "  "rule of international community" - No facts, no examples nor a single word of clarification.

3rdly, so what FB or MNCs threaten to withdraw from SG over our laws and regulations ? Have you heard any news from MNC since the implementation POFMA in Oct ?  No ?

You see, the argument is very simple:  Are you prepared to allow fake news to perpetuate troubles and instability in SG  or for some unexplained selfish fear of loosing that cosy fat paying job in an American coy based here ?

Disagree with me ? Why not ? But perhaps the best party to decide their business interest in SG is none other than Facebook itself. Fact is even with SG's famous media policy and consistently near-bottom  "press freedom" ranking,  Mr Zuckerberg choose SG to setup his 1st Asia Data Centre.

Suck it up and understand why and how SG really works.

 

CNA (2018) Facebook to build first Asian data centre in Singapore, investing S$1.4 billion
Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/technology/facebook-data-centre-singapore-jobs-asia-10688962

press-freedom-index_DE495EE1048D43B7AB9A

 

Edited by Wishcumsback

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On 12/2/2019 at 12:18 AM, Playtime said:

Both Durai and kong hee successfully sued people for libel and "fake news" that were later proven to be true all the while. ... and there probably got plenty others. It's about power. ..

errr.. I recall both cases involved the miss use of fund - nothing to do with the gov nor politics.

Speaking of fake news and "power", the Ah-Kong case is very interesting since the truth was initially exposed by just ONE person against the church. The whistle blower , himself a CHC member, knew he is going up against the Goliath - protected by its flock of brain-washed minions and flanked by well-paid famous attorneys, who were put to work with sue...forcing that one MAN to print public apology to CHC + damage payment of $33k.

With the backing of the church in 2003, Ah-Kong looked "untouchable" then....This had nothing to do with press freedom.

roland-poon-says-sorry_chc-16-08-2014.jp

 

 

Edited by Wishcumsback

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On 12/2/2019 at 1:22 PM, Playtime said:

Yup... they screwed up..

If you also remember nkf... tt durai Must have stepped on the wrong toes,  the papers were FULLLLL  of him day in day out.. but once the talk changed to who were his alleged friends and backers.. and the shit started to splash back.. it became quiet practically overnight too 🤔... unlike ahtc... more episodes than star wars...

  

 

It is rare that we see the government being so careless. Previously, we are used to seeing LKY getting his way, maybe he is more astute in knowing which battles to fight.

This case of States Times Review... I am not sure who even trust a website called States Times Review. All this hoohaa for a small footnote at the bottom of the post...

"Facebook is legally required to tell you that the Singapore government says this post has false information." 

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12 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

It is rare that we see the government being so careless. Previously, we are used to seeing LKY getting his way, maybe he is more astute in knowing which battles to fight.

This case of States Times Review... I am not sure who even trust a website called States Times Review. All this hoohaa for a small footnote at the bottom of the post...

"Facebook is legally required to tell you that the Singapore government says this post has false information." 

The warning is not there for days

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On 12/2/2019 at 9:04 AM, Victor68 said:

Frankly, if people choose to read from FB, Twitter, MCF , Youtube, or any other social media and take the 'News' as gospel truth, nobody can help them. These are for causal kopitiam chit chat. Like the uncle who claimed he just climbed mount Everest within a day.  When MP posted on FB, I think it is just a joke he is sharing lor. 

If you need to find out anything, you check official website. Want to apply BTO, you check FB? If official websites are hacked, then the respective organisations need to address that. Since when everything is through 'word of mouth' as facts? 

There needs to be more people like you in Singapore and the world in general; read in one place and find alternative sources to verify. 

Reality is many don't. 

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On 12/2/2019 at 1:47 PM, Wind30 said:

The public don't really mind NYT being banned in singapore but what would you feel if facebook pulls out of Singapore?

In my opinion FB will not forgo advertising dollars (earned from Singaporean companies) for the sake of "protecting" that one user who has a history of writing articles with a heavy slant against a particular party in SG.

I recall (and I might be wrong) FB's VP (of something) was against the fake news law here and didn't want to commit to removing fake news during one of the public sessions with the committee. I was interested to see what they would do for this case and quite obvious to me they relented though not removing it entirely but put some warning banner over the post. Perhaps the heavy fines was in FB's consideration as well.

Edited by Rm2s
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