How to enforce the law for PMDS?

[Galantspeedz]

5 hours ago, Yewheng said:

 

See this pmd rider refuse to stop and trying to escape.. So if in future no kick, surely he would had keep escape from being caught and continue to keep ride pmd on the road. Although there are many cisco officer chasing after that pmd rider, these cisco officer are handicapped as they chase on foot vs rider rode on pmd. 

Both injured?

If I post something on FB now, can you screenshot and say is the truth?

On a side note, maybe the officers should have their own PMDs like TP have bikes lol

[Yewheng]

22 minutes ago, Hamburger said:

radio said the kungfu officer concerned was suspended and LTA do not tolerate such behaviour.

 

They could have just done a face recognition and it would suffice, according to LTA.

 

good job, another guniang stat board that NATO but only know how to collect $$.

Face recognition? Difficult la.. Although there is face recognition like in hp, digital camera and etc.. It still need good lighting, good resolution (meaning far away distance will not be able to determine the facial shape). So let's say we have facials recognition technology onboard with cisco officer camera. So this cisco officer managed to capture the pmd rider speeding pass him after they given him few warnings to stop (but he did not stop). Remember no kicking.. So they no choice only way is video camera with facial recognition. Then when they went back office, upload the video. The video is not able to determine the face due to it is coming at fast speed and distance is not near enough to have good resolution, plus this rider is wearing face mask and no licence plate on that pmd. So that rider managed to escape. Imagine let's say they stationed for 4 hours.. In that 4 hours managed to capture 6 pmd riders speeding pass them, zero get caught and in that 6 pmd riders speeding pass them.. All of them is unable to be recognised by the facial recognition technology. Like that how? 

 

I think given that situation where that pmd riders was given warnings to stop and that rider did not stop and escape by riding off from the pmd. It would be fair for cisco officer to resort to this kicking method to catch him. If not I don't see how he would be able to get caught.. If he managed to escape once.. Means he is able to escape forever if all cisco officer become ku niang because of circular state do not use force, only take down particulars, discribe the image as accurately as possible (like got use like that). 

[Wind30]

21 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Face recognition? Difficult la.. Although there is face recognition like in hp, digital camera and etc.. It still need good lighting, good resolution (meaning far away distance will not be able to determine the facial shape). So let's say we have facials recognition technology onboard with cisco officer camera. So this cisco officer managed to capture the pmd rider speeding pass him after they given him few warnings to stop (but he did not stop). Remember no kicking.. So they no choice only way is video camera with facial recognition. Then when they went back office, upload the video. The video is not able to determine the face due to it is coming at fast speed and distance is not near enough to have good resolution, plus this rider is wearing face mask and no licence plate on that pmd. So that rider managed to escape. Imagine let's say they stationed for 4 hours.. In that 4 hours managed to capture 6 pmd riders speeding pass them, zero get caught and in that 6 pmd riders speeding pass them.. All of them is unable to be recognised by the facial recognition technology. Like that how? 

 

I think given that situation where that pmd riders was given warnings to stop and that rider did not stop and escape by riding off from the pmd. It would be fair for cisco officer to resort to this kicking method to catch him. If not I don't see how he would be able to get caught.. If he managed to escape once.. Means he is able to escape forever if all cisco officer become ku niang because of circular state do not use force, only take down particulars, discribe the image as accurately as possible (like got use like that). 

...... all your stuff about technology is out dated, I am pretty sure there are technology that can capture the face in daytime. Not too hard too... 

with warning and a decent camera, I can capture the face of an oncoming pmd in daylight. Impt thing is just daylight which is very bright, 

but I think those Cisco guys got no camera. Just use their bionic eyes. Lta really cannot make it. They need to make sure they can catch such errant pmd who runs away. I think kicking is the most efficient. If lta say cannot, they must clarify how they can catch such fleeing pmd riders, fast. Don’t quiet quiet as people will think the law has no teeth...

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Wind30

[Yewheng]

40 minutes ago, Galantspeedz said:

Both injured?

If I post something on FB now, can you screenshot and say is the truth?

On a side note, maybe the officers should have their own PMDs like TP have bikes lol

It was also reported in the news.. Both are injured.. PMD rider taken to hospital for treatment.. The cisco officer was attanded to on the scene.. 

 

Oh ya, good idea.. Since their role is to catch pmd rider, they should also need to have the proper equipment to catch them. If not chase on foot vs pmd speeding? Crazy man.. 

 

These cisco officer on the job should have fast enough pmd to be able to keep pace and catch these speeding pmd.. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Yewheng

[Lava]

this is the minimum force that this enforcement officer can apply to stop an illegal pmd rider.

[BanCoe]

15 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

It was also reported in the news.. Both are injured.. PMD rider taken to hospital for treatment.. The cisco officer was attanded to on the scene.. 

 

Oh ya, good idea.. Since their role is to catch pmd rider, they should also need to have the proper equipment to catch them. If not case on foot vs pmd speeding? Crazy man.. 

 

These cisco officer on the job should have fast enough pmd to be able to keep pace and catch these speeding pmd.. 

Cisco officer can use those confiscated PMD which can go 50km/h 🤣🤣?? 

[Watwheels]

Really facepalm on what LTA is doing. They deploy the enforcement officers but never train them properly. Now police investigation on this incident. The enforcement officers are not even equipped with cameras and they are on foot vs pmds. Still got cheek to say use facial recognition. Face recognised liao, what's next? Wait for police to go ask person to person, go door to door, "have you seen this si ginnah?". Wait until when? Waste of police resources isnt it? Become police go after errant pmd riders? Then what is the enforcement for?

Really wayang.

When the si ginnah realise all they have to do is wear a cap and wear face mask, what is LTA going to do then? Recognise their butt is it?

Edited December 12, 2019 by Watwheels

[Macrosszero]

For those that are claiming inappropriate and/or excessive force leading to a dangerous precedent set by law enforcement officers in the future, I think you need to get over yourself. 

This is not some shoplifter being dragged outside and beat senseless with a nightstick, or a jaywalker being thrown face-down onto the pavement before he even has a chance to show his ID - the official account is that he escaped from a checkpoint stop further up the street. The same official account states that this officer went beyond SOP to stop the rider by delivering The Kick and the controversy begins. 

I guess it is with different beliefs or personal experiences we see the diversity of reactions to the matter and I'm sure I can't change everyone's opinion. But I do know that even in a "civilized" and "educated" society such as Singapore, there will be the lawless that require less-than lawful methods to deal with them. 

I only hope the authorities think hard about how they will deal with the PMD question now that both sides have taken casualties. Its not to say the enforcement task force hasn't evolved to become smarter, their operations have clearly stepped up such as having people further down the road to nab these miscreants, but its been clearly proven that they are extremely agile and are able to use their mobility on the road, on pavement in such a way they can shed any pursuer ranging from being on foot to being in cars.

Aside from using illegal PMDs themselves I don't see any other way, since people have a problem with physical force. Perhaps that is the way forward - just like only cops have guns, maybe only LTA enforcement can have powerful escooters in the future?

[commonjunks]

8 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

I just hope the cisco does  not land himself into any trouble. 

Certis CISCO officer suspended from active duty after kicking PMD rider off road

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/certis-cisco-officer-kicks-pmd-rider-lta-suspended-bedok-12176312

[Whitemorning]

8 hours ago, Xers007 said:

If u look at the video again, the kick did not knock the rider straight off but caused him to wobble, lose balance and crash. Which is very much u think would suffice. But due to the speed he is charging at the warden, he crashed hard.

I think a push to make the PMD lose balance is more than enough. The PMD’s action doesn’t warrant a kick. And assuming the officer’s intention was to stop the PMD, he would probably deliver a hard kick to make sure the rider drops. That kick itself may cause serious body injury to the rider if hit at a wrong spot. Unless the officer is a highly trained martial art expert, it is unlikely that he can aim his kick accurately to hit a non-vital spot. 
 

I may be wrong but just felt that excessive force was used in this incident.

[Wind30]

10 hours ago, Ender said:

British police use their vehicle to ram down moped criminals, the moped crimes were down by 7000 according tothis news. So much for concern for the perpetrator's safety?

Cisco should be equipped with king kong lorry.

 

This video is actually very informative. I think the kick to a fleeing pmd is less force than a police car ram. 

[RadX]

our force here no testicles...

 

that cisco guy shd be given a medal

[Whitemorning]

I think the officer was right to use force to stop the errant PMD, but his decision to deliver the kick was inappropriate. Use of force is indeed necessary in this incident, n there r several options available for the officer (eg. push the rider off balance to make him crash). However, the officer chose to kick, which may result in grave consequences if things go wrong. Then again, I can’t blame the officer as it was a split second decision (probably similar to Captain Sully’s case, who decided to land his plane in Hudson River). People were not trained for an incident like this. 

I feel that this incident was mainly due to poor training and insufficient equipment for the officers tasked to such duty. The authorities should seriously look into the SOPs on how their officers should handle different kind of scenarios in a safe n professional manner. N also sure the officers are properly trained and equipped.

Another mind boggling question in my mind. Does anyone think that the officer had overstepped his legal boundary? Certis was engaged by LTA to enforce the AMA, which I believe covers footpaths only. This joker was riding on the road, meaning the offence comes under RTA. Does the officer have legal powers to enforce the RTA in this case? If he isn’t, will he be deemed as a normal civilian causing intentional hurt to the rider, n possibly be charged with voluntarily causing hurt or rash act? 
 

Any legal experts can give some insights?

[Ender]

6 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

This video is actually very informative. I think the kick to a fleeing pmd is less force than a police car ram. 

The police woman , I think quit big shot,  interviewed really said after ramming down the suspect,s they will be injured and can't run fast.. Injuring the suspect was the INTENTION, openly admitted by the british police, hahaha. No need to be politically correct for the SJW.

[RadX]

ill just put this here

 

[Philipkee]

6 minutes ago, Whitemorning said:

 

Another mind boggling question in my mind. Does anyone think that the officer had overstepped his legal boundary? Certis was engaged by LTA to enforce the AMA, which I believe covers footpaths only. This joker was riding on the road, meaning the offence comes under RTA. Does the officer have legal powers to enforce the RTA in this case? If he isn’t, will he be deemed as a normal civilian causing intentional hurt to the rider, n possibly be charged with voluntarily causing hurt or rash act? 
 

Any legal experts can give some insights?

Can of worms.  If a motorcyclist was riding recklessly on the pavement in front of the TP, can the TP catch since it's not on the road?

CISCO supposed to stop PMD on pavements.  Now you have people blatantly riding recklessly with PMD on the road.  You dont do anything it looks bad and you can get suspended as well.  What if PMD was from pavement to the road?  Do you stop pursuit just because the wheels cross from pavement to road?

LTA should clarify specific realistic ROE.  But I have a sneaky suspicion they won't cos it can bounce back on them if it doesnt work and PMD situation gets worse.  Dont forget, you set the ROE now openly.  If PMD situation gets worse you cannot change ROE just because of that.  So they will probably just give motherhood statements.

[bsswan]

1 hour ago, Whitemorning said:

I think a push to make the PMD lose balance is more than enough. The PMD’s action doesn’t warrant a kick. And assuming the officer’s intention was to stop the PMD, he would probably deliver a hard kick to make sure the rider drops. That kick itself may cause serious body injury to the rider if hit at a wrong spot. Unless the officer is a highly trained martial art expert, it is unlikely that he can aim his kick accurately to hit a non-vital spot. 
 

I may be wrong but just felt that excessive force was used in this incident.

 

Not using enough force is what led to the chaos in HK...…. I'm completely on officer's side and it is a pity he was suspended. PMD was in right most lane, going super fast and actively trying to evade officers so there is no way just to do a little kick or push.

This is not like riding a legal e-Scooter on the pavement, this is all things illegal.

[1fast1]

If the gahmen comes down hard on this poor CISCO chap, they're sending out mixed messages. The bottom line is that an officer of the law was using non lethal force to stop a criminal trying to flee to avoid arrest and consequences for his actions. They need to get behind that and support the officer completely. To do anything else would just embolden the miscreants who still blatantly flout the law.

Why are they so intent on sending out mixed messages about PMDs? It's their own idiocy this problem was brought to our shores in the first place.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Turboflat4