How to enforce the law for PMDS?

[Ganwb79]

4 hours ago, Whitemorning said:

I think a push to make the PMD lose balance is more than enough. The PMD’s action doesn’t warrant a kick. And assuming the officer’s intention was to stop the PMD, he would probably deliver a hard kick to make sure the rider drops. That kick itself may cause serious body injury to the rider if hit at a wrong spot. Unless the officer is a highly trained martial art expert, it is unlikely that he can aim his kick accurately to hit a non-vital spot. 
 

I may be wrong but just felt that excessive force was used in this incident.

The "kick" is akin to a push but using the leg. The rider didn't go flying off his PMD the moment contact was made, he lost his balance. If you are so inclined, even if the officer had used his hand to push as you wished, you would have called it a "punch" 

[RadX]

2 minutes ago, JohnSHL said:

I don't think anyone is disputing that the pmd rider was in the wrong

 

i'm glad that mcf people are so law-abiding and never break the law, never go above speed limit in highway/road/carpark etc.

i for one dun...hahahah...

[inlinesix]

19 hours ago, Yewheng said:

Some do not even have license plate.. Even have license plate.. Also too difficult to capture the plate no due to the plate being small size and they most likely travelling at high speed.. 

 

So a kick would be better, coz once get hit and fall to ground, they can't escape.. If not put enforcement officer also no use if can't catch these pmd rider by just running to them. Human running vs pmd speeding.. 100% pmd speeding will win and escape.. Like that there will always be no ending as end of the day they keep escape from law enforcer officers.. So this officer did a good job.. 1 less pmd rider on the road.. 

Why are we stick stuck in that old mindset?
Camera + AI

[Fuelsaver]

On 12/10/2019 at 11:41 PM, VteckiCk said:

https://mothership.sg/2019/12/enforcement-officer-kicks-pmd-rider-off-device-along-bedok-reservoir-road-to-stop-him/

New thread as I feel this is good discussion

Enforcement kicks pmd rider off e scooter in order to stop him

About 3 other officers chasing 

Right or wrong? 

I am of the opinion that the act of kicking the rider off at high speed is uncalled for

What if rider head hits the kerb? 

Who is going to be responsible for the injuries? 

But at the same time, I secretly want to say "orbigood"

I mean, how else to stop a speeding pmd rider trying to escape? 

Let's discuss

It's a moral / ethic dilemma here. Try to arrest need to concern violator wellbeing. Let go violator affects others wellbeing n future repercussions. So it's sacrifice minority for majority good. I'm all for it. That said, spur of moment reaction never easy, can't fully apply protocol or sop. "Desperate" times call for "desperate" measures.

[Fuelsaver]

3 hours ago, Turboflat4 said:

If the gahmen comes down hard on this poor CISCO chap, they're sending out mixed messages. The bottom line is that an officer of the law was using non lethal force to stop a criminal trying to flee to avoid arrest and consequences for his actions. They need to get behind that and support the officer completely. To do anything else would just embolden the miscreants who still blatantly flout the law.

Why are they so intent on sending out mixed messages about PMDs? It's their own idiocy this problem was brought to our shores in the first place.

Afraid to incur wrath of pmd users, despite that concerned user flouted usage rules

[Enye]

wah lao...next time got this type of video don't post on social media lah

sabo the enforcement officer....otherwise now he promoted to general liao and lead a division to fight illegal pmds instead of suspension

🤣

[Fuelsaver]

5 hours ago, Macrosszero said:

For those that are claiming inappropriate and/or excessive force leading to a dangerous precedent set by law enforcement officers in the future, I think you need to get over yourself. 

This is not some shoplifter being dragged outside and beat senseless with a nightstick, or a jaywalker being thrown face-down onto the pavement before he even has a chance to show his ID - the official account is that he escaped from a checkpoint stop further up the street. The same official account states that this officer went beyond SOP to stop the rider by delivering The Kick and the controversy begins. 

I guess it is with different beliefs or personal experiences we see the diversity of reactions to the matter and I'm sure I can't change everyone's opinion. But I do know that even in a "civilized" and "educated" society such as Singapore, there will be the lawless that require less-than lawful methods to deal with them. 

I only hope the authorities think hard about how they will deal with the PMD question now that both sides have taken casualties. Its not to say the enforcement task force hasn't evolved to become smarter, their operations have clearly stepped up such as having people further down the road to nab these miscreants, but its been clearly proven that they are extremely agile and are able to use their mobility on the road, on pavement in such a way they can shed any pursuer ranging from being on foot to being in cars.

Aside from using illegal PMDs themselves I don't see any other way, since people have a problem with physical force. Perhaps that is the way forward - just like only cops have guns, maybe only LTA enforcement can have powerful escooters in the future?

It appeared to me the current method of policy making is make first think later.. I don't see much thought process put into banning pmd n it's enforcement, amongst other policies

One can say on hindsight easy to comment but there are many brains in these agencies, who at least has masters or higher.

[1fast1]

1 minute ago, Fuelsaver said:

It appeared to me the current method of policy making is make first think later.. I don't see much thought process put into banning pmd n it's enforcement, amongst other policies

One can say on hindsight easy to comment but there are many brains in these agencies, who at least has masters or higher.

Very highly paid brains too. Some would say too highly. 

[Fuelsaver]

On 12/11/2019 at 8:36 AM, kobayashiGT said:

I think the enforcement officer just went see ip man 4 movie. 🤣

I want beat 10 🤭

[Ender]

41 minutes ago, JohnSHL said:

I don't think anyone is disputing that the pmd rider was in the wrong

 

i'm glad that mcf people are so law-abiding and never break the law, never go above speed limit in highway/road/carpark etc.

But even we speed, and got caught, speeding away from enforcer is the last thing on our mind. And that is the point on why some of us feel for a need for drastic actions. It a signal to offenders successful escape from the law has a very favorable odds. 

[Yewheng]

14 minutes ago, Fuelsaver said:

It's a moral / ethic dilemma here. Try to arrest need to concern violator wellbeing. Let go violator affects others wellbeing n future repercussions. So it's sacrifice minority for majority good. I'm all for it. That said, spur of moment reaction never easy, can't fully apply protocol or sop. "Desperate" times call for "desperate" measures.

As long as it is not too excessive.. In the cisco officer instance.. He maybe making a very quick decision and his kick is to ensure the pmd rider do not escape.. However because of the speed the pmd rider is riding.. End up the fall and injuries is greater than say stationary fall.. So well.. 

[Fitvip]

16 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Wait for first quarter next year lah, now LTA / Police is just a toothless tiger on the PMD issue.

Will just do some for publicity lah! Don't expect much!

[Ash2017]

3 hours ago, RadX said:

As many here mentioned

 

what kind of signals are being sent? Clearly e-scooter on road is wrong! Nuff said.

he was using his professional judgement

 

in comparison, why police need to hand cuff a student in school that eventuallyl lead to his suicide

 

the point is if CISCO is deem wrong then policeman who hand cuffed the student should also be wrong

 

 

btw only for you, you can hand cuff me anytime but Noooooooo Ban

too old and ran out of nick

 

[inlinesix]

What’s CISCO SOP?
If no SOP, it’s MANAGEMENT fault 

[inlinesix]

3 hours ago, Stratovarius said:

face recognition always reminds me on this anti face recognition scene in 4 lions:

I feel that the suspension might be too harsh on the officer. if face recognition works, there will be no need for enforcers on the field to catch PMDs. They can just stay in their control room and look at screens to catch them. If face recognition works, why there are so many PMDs flouting the law and not get caught?

Cisco suspending the officer is giving the signal to those PMDs that they can easily get away by speeding off. Just wear a bandana and face mask and they are probably safe. Especially comes 1st Jan 2020.

With facial recognition, the entire process is automated. No need CISCO.

It works in China.

Don’t me face cover ho as China has gait detection 

[inlinesix]

2 hours ago, Lethalstrike said:

"Certis said in its statement that established enforcement protocols require officers to note down the appearance of the escaping PMD user as accurately as possible, and file a report with the LTA"

I say good luck to LTA come Jan 2020. If I'm on a 30kg illegal PMD, I will just wear a mask and continue to speed pass the CISCO blockades, before waiting for your guys to say please to me for me to consider stopping. 

 

Cisco does not have police power unless someone change the law

[Ender]

1 minute ago, inlinesix said:

With facial recognition, the entire process is automated. No need CISCO.

It works in China.

Don’t me face cover ho as China has gait detection 

Riding pmd got gait meh?  If they walk with their pmd, means they are obeying the law liao. 

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

Face recognition? The highly efficient HWZ CSI team cannot even find out who is this guy after a month, so can some technical expert share with us commoner how does face recognition works in this case?

And I couldn't agree more with your last statement! (and I thought CASE was the only toothless tiger here)

That’s because HWZ does not have the support of 公安。Try to do that in China. Confirm Kenna “disappear”