How to enforce the law for PMDS?

[Whitemorning]

24 minutes ago, Vratenza said:

How do one administer a soft, just nice push to a speeding modified PMD? 

To clarify, I’m not referring to a soft, gentle push coz it clearly wouldn’t work. I meant a push with some force to make the rider lose balance n fall. The officer may even pull the rider’s shirt. Wat im saying is there r other ways to take down the rider, besides kicking. If the officer can time his kick so well, I’m sure a push wouldn’t be difficult at all. One would normally have better control (movement n amount of force used) of the hands compared to the legs right?

Also, the motive was to stop the PMD at that instance. From a public angle, a push would appear more professional than a kick. Personally, kicking seemed unorthodox n inhumane. Errant PMD users (thou they r in the wrong) r still human beings, n should still be treated like one. 

Not trying to force my point, just offering my point of view 😊

Edited December 13, 2019 by Whitemorning

[Carbon82]

7 minutes ago, JohnSHL said:

and SCDF having to fight fire (literally)

This one another time bomb... Fighting a EV fire is very different from fighting any other type of fight, as it pose 2 major inherent risk:

1. Electrical shock / electrocution (must know how to isolate electrical source first before attempting to fight a fire)
2. Thermal run away of batteries will cause it to burn even after the initial flame is put off (imagine the car burst into flame at workshop)

I wrote to SCDF and spoke to a few officers before, but the responses I have gotten is nothing but worrying...

[Philipkee]

1 hour ago, Whitemorning said:

To clarify, I’m not referring to a soft, gentle push coz it clearly wouldn’t work. I meant a push with some force to make the rider lose balance n fall. The officer may even pull the rider’s shirt. Wat im saying is there r other ways to take down the rider, besides kicking. If the officer can time his kick so well, I’m sure a push wouldn’t be difficult at all. One would normally have better control (movement n amount of force used) of the hands compared to the legs right?

Also, the motive was to stop the PMD at that instance. From a public angle, a push would appear more professional than a kick. Personally, kicking seemed unorthodox n inhumane. Errant PMD users (thou they r in the wrong) r still human beings, n should still be treated like one. 

Not trying to force my point, just offering my point of view 😊

Disagree.  But its personal.

Kick appears more violent and maybe unprofrssional. 

A push seems more controlled AND DELIBERATE.  Which might have a greater backlash against the officer if any injuries were sustained.

[Beregond]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

Another time bomb coming soon. All talking about going green with EV right? Has NEA gotten a plan for spent batteries disposal / recovery? The strategy of late has been do it first, and deal with the problem later... ...

i believe spend battery fetch a very very good price in the recycling trade. 

alot of recycling company fight over price to collect/buy used/old battery. there shouldnt be an issue of disposal 

[Mustank]

Aiyah why work so hard

just say stop stop please

he doesn’t stop, ok loh 

[Whitemorning]

2 hours ago, Philipkee said:

Disagree.  But its personal.

Kick appears more violent and maybe unprofrssional. 

A push seems more controlled AND DELIBERATE.  Which might have a greater backlash against the officer if any injuries were sustained.

Sorry, but isn’t a kick deliberate as well? Unless the officer was coincidentally stretching out his leg when the PMD sped past. 

Although public statement by Certis didn’t state clearly the reason, I believe the officer was suspended bcoz his kick was deemed as a rash act n unacceptable, not bcoz of his decision to take down the rider. If the officer assessed that the rider posed immediate danger to others nearby, I believe Certis n even LTA would support his decision to take down the errant PMD at that very instance. Of coz, for such instance, the officer must be able to justify his actions. 

[Philipkee]

10 minutes ago, Whitemorning said:

Sorry, but isn’t a kick deliberate as well? Unless the officer was coincidentally stretching out his leg when the PMD sped past. 

Not really.  A kick after running, you can argue instinct, momentum etc but when u push its like u deliberately want to push him off the bike.  While when you kick you can plausibly say instinct blah blah.

It's more like which action gives you a better defense.

An example will be soccer. When you kick u can argue u were going for the ball.  While if u punch u can argue that but less likely to be believed.

Two cents.

[Carbon82]

Now with full blessing from our LTA, chiong ah!!!!!

 

 

[Lethalstrike]

7 minutes ago, Carbon82 said:

Now with full blessing from our LTA, chiong ah!!!!!

 

 

White car in second video " KNNBCCB!!"  

[inlinesix]

22 hours ago, Turboflat4 said:

I see so many of these idiots out there on the roads, all with masks on. Not even a whiff of haze in the air. No flu or SARS epidemic. Tell me - what are they trying to do except escape punishment for flouting the law? 

Seems if you don't have visible registration, you can get away with anything. Maybe we should lose all our licence plates too? 🙄

Just take wet tissue to cover 1 alpha and 1 numeric.

Provided your car is not rare 

[Mustank]

57 minutes ago, Carbon82 said:

Now with full blessing from our LTA, chiong ah!!!!!

 

 

Siang hoh all the catchers relag

let all the mouse come out and play and crash into erp gantry 

[Whitemorning]

1 minute ago, Philipkee said:

Not really.  A kick after running, you can argue instinct, momentum etc but when u push its like u deliberately want to push him off the bike.  While when you kick you can plausibly say instinct blah blah.

It's more like which action gives you a better defense.

An example will be soccer. When you kick u can argue u were going for the ball.  While if u punch u can argue that but less likely to be believed.

Two cents.

Agreed that the kick could be argued as the officer’s instinctive or maybe even defensive action.

But don’t forget, all APOs underwent similar training as SPF officers on how to deal with aggressive or violent person. I don’t think they were taught to throw a kick as the first counter-action. The first counter-action is to dodge, side step or block with arms, then use the legs if necessary. Pls correct me if I’m wrong.

Your soccer example may not be a perfect fit for comparison. But if I may add on to ur soccer example, footballers were taught/trained to play with various parts of their bodies, other than their arms. So if a player used his arms during a tackle, it’s a clear cut violation n his conduct would been be deemed unprofessional n unacceptable isn’t it? Likewise for APOs, if they were taught/trained to deal with aggressive person with the above mentioned methods, wouldn’t kicking be deemed as unprofessional n unacceptable?

Then again, APOs were probably not trained on how to deal with an aggressive PMD riser charging at him. So have to blame the authorities for not equipping the officers with necessary skills n tools before deploying them for such duties. There’s a chinese saying, 工欲善其事，必先利其器 (Good tools are prerequisite to the successful execution of a job).

My two cents too 😊

[Ender]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

Now with full blessing from our LTA, chiong ah!!!!!

 

Spoiler

 

 

Seems like getting worst after authorities suspend the officer. Running away from enforcer has very good odds to get away from the crime.

[Whitemorning]

2 hours ago, Philipkee said:

Not really.  A kick after running, you can argue instinct, momentum etc but when u push its like u deliberately want to push him off the bike.  While when you kick you can plausibly say instinct blah blah.

It's more like which action gives you a better defense.

An example will be soccer. When you kick u can argue u were going for the ball.  While if u punch u can argue that but less likely to be believed.

Two cents.

Anyway bro, our opinions here won’t affect or change the outcome of the investigations. So let’s take it that we have different perspectives on the issue n leave it as it is.

Hope the rider gets his due punishment to the fullest, n the officer won’t get into serious trouble for his courageous act. 

Cheers n stay safe for our loved ones 😊

Edited December 13, 2019 by Whitemorning

[Windwaver]

20 hours ago, Turboflat4 said:

I agree with your sentiments about everything except the Oppo part. 

Neither the Oppo nor the incumbent will go out of their way to bring this up as a topic of discussion or debate or rhetoric. Simply because public opinion is divided on this and there is no clear "safe side". It's likely both the officer and "victim" were locals so there's no "FT!!" wardrums to beat. And I've already seen a lot of people online critical of what the officer did. It's not just the bleeding heart "excessive force" types, I'll bet you more than a few of them resent losing their PMD "privileges". It's not just the leisure riding contingent; some of them nurse grievances about having lost their rice-bowls as delivery riders, and I can tell you sentiments run deep where breaking of blue-collar rice-bowls are concerned. 

It's a hot potato issue with "no-win" written all over it. Any politician who chooses to embark on a substantive discussion of such a topic of his/her own volition is extremely foolish, as he/she risks alienating a good portion of voters. And whatever position one side ill-advised ventures to take on the matter, you can bet the other side will be waiting to pounce on it, point out the flaws in their opponent's arguments and score easy rhetorical points. This is effectively a topic of political zugzwang, if you will.

Politicians are all fundamentally survivors, Oppo and MIW alike. Not only will they not bring it up, but if they're challenged with it by an interlocutor, they'll have some adroit motherhood statements and platitudes lined up to brush it off before changing the subject quickly. Mark my words.

Agree.

However, it'll be foolish for any opposition politician to talk about whether if the law is right or wrong.

The point to talk about is how people on the top have lost touch with the ground (not the law). Senior management are the ones that draw the highest $$ and is responsible for being more capable than all those below them ($$). They must have a better plan and vision because of their capabilities.

Looked at what just happened? Officers on the ground doing their job but getting suspended. So senior management takes ZERO blame and they continue to draw the most $$? 

[inlinesix]

45 minutes ago, Windwaver said:

Agree.

However, it'll be foolish for any opposition politician to talk about whether if the law is right or wrong.

The point to talk about is how people on the top have lost touch with the ground (not the law). Senior management are the ones that draw the highest $$ and is responsible for being more capable than all those below them ($$). They must have a better plan and vision because of their capabilities.

Looked at what just happened? Officers on the ground doing their job but getting suspended. So senior management takes ZERO blame and they continue to draw the most $$? 

In Sg, everything law by law.

It’s foot soldier fault for not following SOP.

Don’t blame SENIOR management for ZERO accountability.
Who gave senior management their mandate?

[Shibadog]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

In Sg, everything law by law.

It’s foot soldier fault for not following SOP.

Don’t blame SENIOR management for ZERO accountability.
Who gave senior management their mandate?

who is responsible for drawing up the SOP/ROE and training said foot soldiers?

[Windwaver]

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/singapore/lta-enforcement-officer-angry-over-colleague-s-suspension-says-he-was-just-doing-his-job/ar-AAK4TPp?ocid=ob-fb-ensg-400

LTA enforcement officer angry over colleague’s suspension, says he was just doing his job

Obbana Rajah

Disclaimer: Microsoft News is currently reviewing the accuracy of this story with the publisher due to social media source. Updates will be published here if needed.

After a Land Transport Authority (LTA) enforcement officer was caught on camera kicking a Personal Mobility Device (PMD) rider off his device and sending the rider flying along Bedok Reservoir Road, a colleague of his took to social media to call out the people of Singapore for not allowing enforcement officers to carry out their jobs properly.

Writing anonymously to Facebook page SG Confessions, someone who worked as an enforcement officer wrote in. They said that their job is to “enforce the rules and stop these pmd riders that have plagued our roads and walkways”.

He made reference to a video circulating online where when a speeding PMD rider approached a traffic junction, one officer rushed forward and kicked the oncoming PMD rider, sending him flying off his device and crashing into the nearby sidewalk. The rider, whose present condition is unknown, can be seen getting up momentarily before falling down again in the viral video.

In his confession, the colleague wrote, “He (the now-suspended officer) is simply doing what regular Singaporeans want to do but is unable to do because they are untrained”.

Adding that PMD riders were constantly breaking the rules, but that enforcement officers were only allowed to watch and passively take down details of the offender.

“If there is no BITE to your rules, why hire us enforcement officers for? Now LTA and the security firm send (sic) a message to all errant PMD rider, (sic) don’t worry just speed off, the green man cannot do anything to you. They cannot touch you, they can only use their eye power.

In one instance, you made all of us enforcement officer (sic) lose our ability to put fear into these punk riders. Now, I really don’t know what I am doing my job for”, he wrote.

Calling for people to make up their minds as to whether they want officers to take action or watch passively, he wrote, “If there is pmd, I will jus (sic) let them run off. Why risk injury to ourselves to protect singaporeans when you don’t back me up?” /TISG