Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners

[Sosaria]

46 minutes ago, Inlinefour said:

You are not allowed to work in objectionable occupations such as a dance hostess or a masseur.

 

Mom also knew ltv all ktv and massage 😁😁😁

Nowadays where got DANCE HOSTESS ??

This rule written in the olden days when there used to be cabarets

 

And what's wrong with being masseuse ? There are also squeaky clean or open-concept establishments that do foot, neck & shoulder massage.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Sosaria

[Solar]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

And our government really walk the talk... Singapore no such IT talent? Then something must be seriously wrong with our world class education system!

Another Ramesh.. someone should post a question on Josephine, Ah Seng, MOM and NTUC Facebook the question. 

Knn. I am pretty sure CECA will be among, if not all the people report to him in his organisation.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Solar

[Inlinefour]

35 minutes ago, Sosaria said:

Nowadays where got DANCE HOSTESS ??

This rule written in the olden days when there used to be cabarets

 

And what's wrong with being masseuse ? There are also squeaky clean or open-concept establishments that do foot, neck & shoulder massage.

that's why ltv are the only ft that got sinkies support 😁😁😁

problem now is almost all high wage jobs also ft got it😭😭😭

since they love ft so much😍😍😍

must as well outsource the white to ft will save us billion yearly 😬😬😬

[Dinosaur33]

Actually never mind la. We can also "follow" ccs way of doing things. Just let him know that by him having us as a minister is also too expensive. Let's have a switch to a cheaper, faster and quicker alternative.

 

There is one important lesson that we all need to learn, no one is indispensable. If you cannot be a minister for A country, you can jolly well apply to be a minister for B or C country. If you are good enough and well liked by the people you lead, your boss will be willing to pay you what you are worth. 

[Fuelsaver]

17 hours ago, Sdf4786k said:

If in the work place, does all the local have the same voice and come together to influence a outcome or do they shy away from such conversation vs when you speak up and there are 10 of them who start to question you on why you are the odd one out?

Thats what I am saying. Unless you have a way to change the outcome, you will be the odd one out and you be ostracize. 

Ever gone to a discussion where your counterpart try to defuse the discussion and make you seem small gas?

If you go afew times, you too will be tolerant and calm and just blend and adjust to the situation. And all too soon, it will be another disengage employee .

 

So you resigning to what's to come I suppose

[Fuelsaver]

On 1/7/2020 at 11:01 PM, Freeder said:

Just hate that Forced Smile...BTH..

I certainly feel and believe they don't mean what they say. Don't use decade ago example to convince us. In this knowledge era, many sectors already have experienced pmet. Try harder please.

[Fuelsaver]

9 hours ago, Kusje said:

Need freedom of information act.

Pofma Vs Foia. Guess who wins?

[Fuelsaver]

6 hours ago, Angcheek said:

You will laff till your teeth drop off reading the comments ....... 😂

答非所问

Comprehension fail

[Fuelsaver]

14 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

I have no concern if Singapore really lack talent in the niche field and need FT to fill the gap. You notice I don't use the word void? Filling the gap while training the local to fill it in times to come. But that is not what we are seeing in the past decade at least. 1 batch of FT goes, another batch of FT come and the cycle continue...

And to add to the insult, I am also seeing not so niche functions been filled by FT, such as HR, finance, facilities management, safety, service industry, etc. etc. I am in Safety line and my personal experience with some FT safety director are that they know nuts about our local safety requirement. All they do is just to preach about people management, safety vision, etc. while ignoring what are required to be done as according to local laws. Is that doing any good for Singapore?

You can say I am bias but FT has become a cheat (and cheap) pill to lower the operating cost in Singapore. High land cost / rental, transport cost, multiple taxes, etc. are the real culprits but ... ...

Wholeheartedly agree. That's why CCS used Google and Facebook to bring across that message but he didn't cover what you did. To me is very simple: can developing nations' people's knowledge and culture be better than developed nations in general? I know a few foreign "engineers" who cannot even understand "rate" and simple calculations or formulae used in engineering. I won't wanna be in a structure or building where they're involved in the design of it. Basically our country's quality in everything is going downhill.

[Philipkee]

9 hours ago, Dinosaur33 said:

 

However it is the management team intentionally/unintentionally take a longer time to hire when there is a someone leave creating unnecessary additional workload to the existing staff. In addition, to top it off, there is still audit work and finding that need to be completed.

My opinion on this.  It's all about the almighty dollar.

1)  headcount is 10.  You have 10 staff.  One is ABOUT TO resign.   Management will not hire a new staff yet because if the ABOUT TO resign staff did not resign, there would be extra staff.  The resignation must happen first.  Unfortunately, the resigning staff notice period can be one month while the time taken to hire a new staff takes two months.  So that's an issue.

2)  headcount is 10.  You have 10 staff.  One is resigning.  Management thinks maybe 9 staff is sufficient.   So they hold off hiring a replacement.  If you can cope with 9 staff, they just saved a person's salary.  If you cannot cope, every month they delay hiring a replacement is a month's worth of salary saved.

[Philipkee]

I am curious.  Why cant we have a car industry?  Ford factory used to be in Singapore. 

I am not talking about the electric car but like in Thailand they can build Japanese cars.  Why cant we do something like it here? Lack of know how?  Infrastructure?

[Wind30]

17 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

I have no concern if Singapore really lack talent in the niche field and need FT to fill the gap. You notice I don't use the word void? Filling the gap while training the local to fill it in times to come. But that is not what we are seeing in the past decade at least. 1 batch of FT goes, another batch of FT come and the cycle continue...

 

 

I am not sure if you are in the high tech line as what you say is very idealistic...

I have been in IC design for 20 years, 3 companies. I can tell you only 10% of the engineers are true born singaporeans like me. Did it change over the past 20 years? NO.

So what did we gained?? Quite a few of my foreign colleagues settled down in Singapore and became PR/Citizens. It did bring up the average GDP of the country. Those colleagues will also spend money, etc. Given a choice of not importing FT and getting stuck in low tech jobs, the choice is OBVIOUS.

We REALLY need the FT else Singapore will NEVER progress in high tech industry. 

Why no locals??? You think high tech is STATIC which is not. Example, AI is hot now... u say we want Locals to take up the niche jobs in AI but by the time they study finish, gain experienced, the job has changed....

Furthermore, u think any singaporean or FT can go high tech jobs? I tell you getting a lousy engineer is sooooooo dangerous in my field as one design error impact is huge. So if I get a mediocre Singaporean Engineer I might as well do the work myself. The field is so niche but already out of fashion that now no smart singaporean wants to join IC design now... most is finance, medical, software maybe.

But singaporeans DO still benefit... At least I did... 

If you look around the world, it is the SAME EVERYWHERE.... how old is silicon valley??? 20 years 30 years? you think mature enough so most of their jobs are given to "locals" ie americans??? 

There is NO SUCH thing. the locals will NEVER replace FT as the industry is so competitive. So why do silicon valley still have so many FTs???

It is easy to assume the solution is simple and the opposition has a magic want to fix it... there isn't... 

 

[Philipkee]

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

It is easy to assume the solution is simple and the opposition has a magic want to fix it... there isn't... 

Actually there is.  It's called forecasting.  Predicting the next big thing instead of waiting for it to happen and then preparing for it.  Not easy but that's what the high salaries are for.

[Wind30]

18 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Actually there is.  It's called forecasting.  Predicting the next big thing instead of waiting for it to happen and then preparing for it.  Not easy but that's what the high salaries are for.

??? Can u forecast the next big thing? Another thing i don’t like is people assume u pay high salaries , government can do the impossible...

they just say, I cannot because I am not getting the high pay. Minister get paid millions so they should be able to fly, walk on water.

How accurate are your forecast?? Even if u forecast, how u convince people to study in an industry that is not yet hot?

as I say easier said then done.

[Philipkee]

21 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

??? Can u forecast the next big thing? Another thing i don’t like is people assume u pay high salaries , government can do the impossible...

they just say, I cannot because I am not getting the high pay. Minister get paid millions so they should be able to fly, walk on water.

How accurate are your forecast?? Even if u forecast, how u convince people to study in an industry that is not yet hot?

as I say easier said then done.

Hee.  I tot the govt self declare they got the foresight?  Hence the high pay (on top of other reasons).

But I agree.  Normal civil service staff should not say low pay therefore cannot this or that though if u pay low, expectations should be lower.

How accurate are my forecasts?  I wont say accurate otherwise I will be millionaire but a problem is we are set in certain ways and dont think if the industry has a future other than it is financially lucrative now.  A simple forecast I make is that with internet, travel agents, insurance agents (basically agents), salesmen will start to become irrelevant in years to come.  Those who want to work in this field will find easy entry but harder to get the customers.  So either look for another industry or innovate.  It is financially lucrative NOW but I foresee it will not be so in the future except for a few.

How do we convince?  I think the Singapore govt is very good at convincing.   Schools and students tend to take the govt lead as opposed to following their interests.

Throw in a two cents.

I think the next big thing would be climate change.  If study or start to specialise in alternative energy resources, i think the graduates will have a good career. I am thinking of solar energy and wind (not nuclear).  But it's my two cents.  Dont blame me if u study that and fail.

But I think singapore and the world of moving towards that and it seems like something not many people study about (not sure if singapore offers such courses though I think there should be something like that in Australia).

Edited January 8, 2020 by Philipkee

[Fuelsaver]

2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

 

I am not sure if you are in the high tech line as what you say is very idealistic...

I have been in IC design for 20 years, 3 companies. I can tell you only 10% of the engineers are true born singaporeans like me. Did it change over the past 20 years? NO.

So what did we gained?? Quite a few of my foreign colleagues settled down in Singapore and became PR/Citizens. It did bring up the average GDP of the country. Those colleagues will also spend money, etc. Given a choice of not importing FT and getting stuck in low tech jobs, the choice is OBVIOUS.

We REALLY need the FT else Singapore will NEVER progress in high tech industry. 

Why no locals??? You think high tech is STATIC which is not. Example, AI is hot now... u say we want Locals to take up the niche jobs in AI but by the time they study finish, gain experienced, the job has changed....

Furthermore, u think any singaporean or FT can go high tech jobs? I tell you getting a lousy engineer is sooooooo dangerous in my field as one design error impact is huge. So if I get a mediocre Singaporean Engineer I might as well do the work myself. The field is so niche but already out of fashion that now no smart singaporean wants to join IC design now... most is finance, medical, software maybe.

But singaporeans DO still benefit... At least I did... 

If you look around the world, it is the SAME EVERYWHERE.... how old is silicon valley??? 20 years 30 years? you think mature enough so most of their jobs are given to "locals" ie americans??? 

There is NO SUCH thing. the locals will NEVER replace FT as the industry is so competitive. So why do silicon valley still have so many FTs???

It is easy to assume the solution is simple and the opposition has a magic want to fix it... there isn't... 

 

We are all speaking from our own exposure, background, experience, context. I don't think opposition has adequate exposure and experience to really manage the country and foreign affairs, but I believe the reason will be to have different thoughts during a parliamentary debate, which should be beneficial to the nation. It should also compel the ruling party to be really thinking more carefully and harder.

[Sdf4786k]

5 hours ago, Fuelsaver said:

Wholeheartedly agree. That's why CCS used Google and Facebook to bring across that message but he didn't cover what you did. To me is very simple: can developing nations' people's knowledge and culture be better than developed nations in general? I know a few foreign "engineers" who cannot even understand "rate" and simple calculations or formulae used in engineering. I won't wanna be in a structure or building where they're involved in the design of it. Basically our country's quality in everything is going downhill.

He should have just use Japan.

How many FT are there and the high resistance to FT vs Japanese.

looking at data as Far as 1970 and use data for employment of 2015 for employment ? 

Seems like driving forward with eyes glued to the rear wheel mirror.

Yes, in 1970, we were a swamp land in Jurong and Bukit Timah may still have one or two huts that is use as toilets.

So in terms of tech. No. In terms of Inflation should be what should have been focus on and the competitive wages and what it represent.

I still recall Compaq computers and Apple. The engineers were the company had the top 10 highest wages in the industry. 

So much so that there was a HR cartel that forbid each other from poaching. Of course if you use the same practice, you be sued by the employee and "may be" the union.

Back in those days, the engineers were trained and paid handsomely as well as skill transfer were quite rapid. HR was really good because they have a KPI. IF your replacement is not groom to take over your role. The carrot of your director role back home in US will evaporate.

And I have to agree, back than the local engineer pay was equivalent to a Production Operator pay in US. BUT thats how we compete. Base on wages and tax free incentives for the manufacturing. 

But as time rolls, the semiconductor industry also became more vibrant. But we were no longer competitive.

Why ? not because of wages raising. Because land cost and the suitability of the land. You got MRT train running, the plant got vibration, the production of flawed/quality cutting of the wafer plunges. You get BIN 00 most times.

You also had to use huge supply of water and that is really a constrain as well. Not so much now with laser cutting tech but than we discussing about 1970.

back in those days. engineers were drawing 3500 to 5000. You job hop to intel, you X2 to 10K. So you had a different set of problem where the growing wage divide was phenomenon .

HP had social problems. Engineers complains of not enough parking lots and residents were complaining not enough lots during the day.

Nice problem to have. Tectronic selling scopes had sales force that get paid holiday trip overseas to Hawaii and US. 

The economy was averaging growth of 5 to 10%. But those days are gone.

So back to the basis of the question.

IF the data points show that the number of Singaporean having jobs is less than PR, would it be the fault of Singaporean and the evolving landscape base on what was shared.

OR would it still be a flawed policy and a lack of feeling the pulse of a run away situation that was loosely classified as a better good of the country Having a Singapore competing on the global front ?

 

 

[Wind30]

1 hour ago, Philipkee said:

Hee.  I tot the govt self declare they got the foresight?  Hence the high pay (on top of other reasons).

But I agree.  Normal civil service staff should not say low pay therefore cannot this or that though if u pay low, expectations should be lower.

How accurate are my forecasts?  I wont say accurate otherwise I will be millionaire but a problem is we are set in certain ways and dont think if the industry has a future other than it is financially lucrative now.  A simple forecast I make is that with internet, travel agents, insurance agents (basically agents), salesmen will start to become irrelevant in years to come.  Those who want to work in this field will find easy entry but harder to get the customers.  So either look for another industry or innovate.  It is financially lucrative NOW but I foresee it will not be so in the future except for a few.

How do we convince?  I think the Singapore govt is very good at convincing.   Schools and students tend to take the govt lead as opposed to following their interests.

Throw in a two cents.

I think the next big thing would be climate change.  If study or start to specialise in alternative energy resources, i think the graduates will have a good career. I am thinking of solar energy and wind (not nuclear).  But it's my two cents.  Dont blame me if u study that and fail.

But I think singapore and the world of moving towards that and it seems like something not many people study about (not sure if singapore offers such courses though I think there should be something like that in Australia).

Ok then if u are the government to solve this ft issue , u forecast that solar and wind industry will be the next big thing a few years down the road. 
are u going to take the lead and gear the University towards that in preparation? Let assume you get your forecast right... Can u attract the TOP 10% of Singaporeans to take up courses in solar/wind tech now when there are no jobs in Singapore on those stuff? Government will have to invest in r&d now and those require ft now to kick start. At the end of the day, what government says is right. 
i really think the big disconnect here is not that the public do not understand the need for ft, they unhappy that the higher pay jobs never seemed to get passed to the locals over time. Ft seems to be always there in large numbers. 
To me, the government needs to stop selling that those jobs will be passed to locals. the reasons why we need ft is not going to change... the high tech industry is always changing fast. U always need to hire ft if the company wants the better candidates.

even in this case, getting the jobs here with ft help is better than losing the MNC.

A simple case is for the FT working in singapore, think about how much of his pay gets plowed back into rents (mostly Singaporeans landlords...) expenses, education, etc. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Wind30