Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners

[Kb27]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:01 PM, Vratenza said:

There are data and there are data analysis. 

Give us the raw data and we analyse and interpret for ourselves.

What the MIW is hinting to us commoners, is that we are too dumb to intepret the data on our own. 

 

 

When I was in NS, we had to attend a certain training course. I remember one of the subject was to present "statistics" using raw data we were given.

The class was divided into 4 groups. Each group had to present its "statistics" to show some intent.

I remember using the data and came up with some good looking statistics. Then I watched the other groups did their presentation, and was surprised their statistics doesn't look good.

From that day, I learned that manipulating and selecting data, the same raw data, can give you the statistics that you want.

[Carbon82]

On 1/11/2020 at 2:32 PM, Wind30 said:

hr is close to all singaporean but they are only like 4 person. For IT local is 60%? I think those general functions has much more locals but definitely not 90%..... that’s the point. If u let me hire ft for the ultra technical positions, the mnc will set up shop here and with it comes the general functions which are headed by quite a lot of Singaporeans.

Even the high tech functions, almost all the management is local in my company. My local boss is singaporean. The mangers under him is 3 singaporean 1 Malaysian. Trust me, we WANT to hire locals... if anything we discriminate against ft but my team still is majority ft... the discrimination is logical as ft don’t stay Long... I would rather get someone local who stays ....

but i work in Changi business park so I don’t know why soooooo maaaany Indians there during afternoon time. 
Crazy. I am thinking of doing a video for YouTube but I scared the video become viral.....

Once again, thanks for the insight. Unfortunately what you have experienced in your company is not what we experienced in our own field. 

Let me share mine. I find myself becoming the UN chief when I inherited a team in my previous company:

• Manager => SPR (Philippines)
• Engineer 1 => SPR (Malaysia)
• Engineer 2 => SPR (India) 
• Technician 1 => FW (India) 
• Technician 2 => FW (Myanmar)
• Technician 3 => FW (Malaysia)
• Technician 4 => New Citizen (China)

And my India origin Engineer walk to my desk 1 day and tell me: "Boss, I plan to go back India with my family next year. My 4 storey house is almost completed and I will get my wife to go back first, get a car and make arrangements for my kids education. I plan to sell my flat in a few months time so that I can have some funds to start some small business when I am back home."

"If you cannot find suitable person to fill my role, I can recommend a few of my Indian friends, there are all quite good, and can stay for at least another few years before going back India."

Do I need to say more? 

[Voodooman]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:31 PM, Kusje said:

more like you don't wanna let your boss know about your mistake because you are afraid to get fired.

Pofma and selective info to “manage” perception on the ground.  They obviously don’t trust the voters on making wise decisions when it comes to the FT issue. 

[Enye]

4 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

Once again, thanks for the insight. Unfortunately what you have experienced in your company is not what we experienced in our own field. 

Let me share mine. I find myself becoming the UN chief when I inherited a team in my previous company:

• Manager => SPR (Philippines)
• Engineer 1 => SPR (Malaysia)
• Engineer 2 => SPR (India) 
• Technician 1 => FW (India) 
• Technician 2 => FW (Myanmar)
• Technician 3 => FW (Malaysia)
• Technician 4 => New Citizen (China)

And my India origin Engineer walk to my desk 1 day and tell me: "Boss, I plan to go back India with my family next year. My 4 storey house is almost completed and I will get my wife to go back first, get a car and make arrangements for my kids education. I plan to sell my flat in a few months time so that I can have some funds to start some small business when I am back home."

"If you cannot find suitable person to fill my role, I can recommend a few of my Indian friends, there are all quite good, and can stay for at least another few years before going back India."

Do I need to say more? 

wah...no need

you said it already ...boss

👍🤗

[Sdf4786k]

4 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

Once again, thanks for the insight. Unfortunately what you have experienced in your company is not what we experienced in our own field. 

Let me share mine. I find myself becoming the UN chief when I inherited a team in my previous company:

• Manager => SPR (Philippines)
• Engineer 1 => SPR (Malaysia)
• Engineer 2 => SPR (India) 
• Technician 1 => FW (India) 
• Technician 2 => FW (Myanmar)
• Technician 3 => FW (Malaysia)
• Technician 4 => New Citizen (China)

And my India origin Engineer walk to my desk 1 day and tell me: "Boss, I plan to go back India with my family next year. My 4 storey house is almost completed and I will get my wife to go back first, get a car and make arrangements for my kids education. I plan to sell my flat in a few months time so that I can have some funds to start some small business when I am back home."

"If you cannot find suitable person to fill my role, I can recommend a few of my Indian friends, there are all quite good, and can stay for at least another few years before going back India."

Do I need to say more? 

if you look at IT lagi best .... and we happy happy get Upton grads where our ITE can also be VP .. 

either we extremely lucky to get these engineers or we really kumgong and take in these folks because we kanna hypnotise by the shaking motion 

*****

CP Gurnani, CEO & MD of Tech Mahindra, said, “The top 10 IT companies take only 6% of the engineering graduates. What happens to the remaining 94%?”

Commenting on the poor quality of engineering graduates, Gurnanai added, “Let me give you an example from a city like Delhi. A student scoring 60% marks cannot pursue BA-English today, but can definitely go in for engineering. My point is simple — are we not creating people for unemployment?”

“The Indian IT industry wants skills. For example, Nasscom says 6 million people are required in cybersecurity by 2022. But we have a skills shortage. The point is if I am looking for a robotics person and instead I get a mainframe person, then it creates a skill gap. This comes as a big challenge,” he shared.

In fact, the Aspiring Minds study in 2017 revealed that only 4.77% candidates could write the correct logic for a programme — a minimum requirement for any programming job. The conclusion of the study came from more than 36,000 engineering students of over 500 colleges who took a Machine Learning based assessment of software development skills. It found that more than 60% could not even write code that compiles. Only 1.4% could write functionally correct and efficient code, it said.

It added that employability for roles such as mechanical design engineer and civil engineer stood at a meagre 5.55 per cent and 6.48 per cent respectively. The lowest employability percentage was for the chemical design engineer role at 1.64 per cent. Employability in the domain-specific roles was the highest for electronics engineers at 7.07 per cent.

A McKinsey report has also flagged the issue more than a decade ago when it said just a quarter of engineers in India were actually employable. India’s problem of substandard engineering education is well known. Except IITs and other prestigious technology institutes, most engineering colleges are unable to provide quality education to engineering students that would get them suitable jobs.

In any case, Indian IT companies were making a beeline for the Singapore FinTech Festival last week. The festival touted to be the largest Financial Technology event in the world is organized annually by the Monetary Authority of Singapore (MAS). It aims to provide a platform for the FinTech community to connect, collaborate and co-create.

[Sosaria]

10 minutes ago, Sdf4786k said:

if you look at IT lagi best .... and we happy happy get Upton grads where our ITE can also be VP .. 

either we extremely lucky to get these engineers or we really kumgong and take in these folks because we kanna hypnotise by the shaking motion 

*****

CP Gurnani, CEO & MD of Tech Mahindra, said, “The top 10 IT companies take only 6% of the engineering graduates. What happens to the remaining 94%?”

Commenting on the poor quality of engineering graduates, Gurnanai added, “Let me give you an example from a city like Delhi. A student scoring 60% marks cannot pursue BA-English today, but can definitely go in for engineering. My point is simple — are we not creating people for unemployment?”

...

 

Really sounds like malaysia which churns out lots of tech / engineering grads, but majority cannot meet the standard required for employment in any decent MNC.

Policy-makers only looking at numbers but no concern about the quality.

Once my company interviewed such grad from another 3rd world country, and though he came with a chemistry-related degree, he freely admitted in chit-chat that universities there were under-equipped and sometimes they even forgo many of the lab sessions out of lack of resources and equipment. Also can get that piece of paper!

Edited January 13, 2020 by Sosaria

[Victor68]

They are here to increase your salary remember? 

[Sdf4786k]

33 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

They are here to increase your salary remember? 

I think u remember wrongly. The example is they draw the 10k job n you take the 7k job but work harder for it

else there is no job 

but base on that example given, how does fair employment help? Or it’s just to make sure we eat dead cat.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Sdf4786k

[Kb27]

Pritam seems to be a good guy. Probably the best of the lot.

[Angcheek]

10 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

Once again, thanks for the insight. Unfortunately what you have experienced in your company is not what we experienced in our own field. 

Let me share mine. I find myself becoming the UN chief when I inherited a team in my previous company:

• Manager => SPR (Philippines)
• Engineer 1 => SPR (Malaysia)
• Engineer 2 => SPR (India) 
• Technician 1 => FW (India) 
• Technician 2 => FW (Myanmar)
• Technician 3 => FW (Malaysia)
• Technician 4 => New Citizen (China)

And my India origin Engineer walk to my desk 1 day and tell me: "Boss, I plan to go back India with my family next year. My 4 storey house is almost completed and I will get my wife to go back first, get a car and make arrangements for my kids education. I plan to sell my flat in a few months time so that I can have some funds to start some small business when I am back home."

"If you cannot find suitable person to fill my role, I can recommend a few of my Indian friends, there are all quite good, and can stay for at least another few years before going back India."

Do I need to say more? 

I need to befriend ur Indian colleagues and color myself black ... 😁

 

[Mockngbrd]

PAP wan shui!

[Angcheek]

1 hour ago, Victor68 said:

They are here to increase your salary remember? 

Only when elephant can climb tree 😜

[Angcheek]

1 minute ago, Mockngbrd said:

PAP wan shui!

They wan my Shui ??? I have super potent white white Shui 白白的水 😂 

[Sdf4786k]

25 minutes ago, Mockngbrd said:

PAP wan shui!

Wasn’t that one of the reason George kanna KO

[TangoCharlie]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:38 AM, Carbon82 said:

Once again, thanks for the insight. Unfortunately what you have experienced in your company is not what we experienced in our own field. 

Let me share mine. I find myself becoming the UN chief when I inherited a team in my previous company:

• Manager => SPR (Philippines)
• Engineer 1 => SPR (Malaysia)
• Engineer 2 => SPR (India) 
• Technician 1 => FW (India) 
• Technician 2 => FW (Myanmar)
• Technician 3 => FW (Malaysia)
• Technician 4 => New Citizen (China)

And my India origin Engineer walk to my desk 1 day and tell me: "Boss, I plan to go back India with my family next year. My 4 storey house is almost completed and I will get my wife to go back first, get a car and make arrangements for my kids education. I plan to sell my flat in a few months time so that I can have some funds to start some small business when I am back home."

"If you cannot find suitable person to fill my role, I can recommend a few of my Indian friends, there are all quite good, and can stay for at least another few years before going back India."

Do I need to say more? 

It is telling why penalties have been made harsher....

Harsher penalties for companies whose hiring practices discriminate against Singaporeans 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/penalties-companies-discriminate-against-singaporeans-hiring-12261678

 

[Carbon82]

49 minutes ago, TangoCharlie said:

It is telling why penalties have been made harsher....

Harsher penalties for companies whose hiring practices discriminate against Singaporeans 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/penalties-companies-discriminate-against-singaporeans-hiring-12261678

 

That solve only part of the problem. Saw the no. of SPR and new citizen in the team I mentioned? 

That is what this whole argument in Parliament come about... 

[RadX]

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/forum/breaking-down-data-can-aid-public-discourse

Forum: Breaking down data can aid public discourse

PUBLISHED 4 HOURS AGO

In the debate over employment data and requests for stratified data for Singapore citizens versus permanent residents (PRs), Senior Minister of State Chee Hong Tat said "we must firmly reject all attempts to drive a wedge between different groups within our society" (Chee Hong Tat: Data on employment is clear, Jan 10).

The Ministry of Education has been publishing the educational performance of Singaporean students in the annual national examinations broken down according to the Chinese-Malay-Indian-Others racial classification.

In 2012, when asked in Parliament about this, then Senior Parliamentary Secretary Hawazi Daipi said that doing so "enables the respective communities to monitor the effectiveness of their educational programmes".

"There is also value in providing such information so that the community, ethnic self-help groups and the public can study the data and discuss areas for improvement," he added.

The national disease registry also publishes statistics on the incidence of various medical conditions, such as diabetes, kidney failure, heart attack and stroke, among the four major ethnic groups.

Despite regularly releasing data broken down by ethnic groups, Singapore enjoys good inter-racial harmony. If providing stratified data would "drive a wedge between different groups within our society", then the Government should abolish the release of data categorised by ethnic group.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––

Not providing stratified employment data broken down into citizens versus PRs does not mean that the divide is not there, especially when the Government itself has put in place policies to differentiate between citizens and PRs, such as for housing, healthcare and education subsidies.

It is flawed to assume that data stratification would "drive a wedge between different groups within our society".

Instead, there is no doubt that providing stratified statistics would contribute towards more informed public discourse and analyses of the socio-economic issues facing our country.

Sin Wei Xiang

[Ash2017]

10 minutes ago, RadX said:

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/forum/breaking-down-data-can-aid-public-discourse

Forum: Breaking down data can aid public discourse

PUBLISHED 4 HOURS AGO

In the debate over employment data and requests for stratified data for Singapore citizens versus permanent residents (PRs), Senior Minister of State Chee Hong Tat said "we must firmly reject all attempts to drive a wedge between different groups within our society" (Chee Hong Tat: Data on employment is clear, Jan 10).

The Ministry of Education has been publishing the educational performance of Singaporean students in the annual national examinations broken down according to the Chinese-Malay-Indian-Others racial classification.

In 2012, when asked in Parliament about this, then Senior Parliamentary Secretary Hawazi Daipi said that doing so "enables the respective communities to monitor the effectiveness of their educational programmes".

"There is also value in providing such information so that the community, ethnic self-help groups and the public can study the data and discuss areas for improvement," he added.

The national disease registry also publishes statistics on the incidence of various medical conditions, such as diabetes, kidney failure, heart attack and stroke, among the four major ethnic groups.

Despite regularly releasing data broken down by ethnic groups, Singapore enjoys good inter-racial harmony. If providing stratified data would "drive a wedge between different groups within our society", then the Government should abolish the release of data categorised by ethnic group.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––

Not providing stratified employment data broken down into citizens versus PRs does not mean that the divide is not there, especially when the Government itself has put in place policies to differentiate between citizens and PRs, such as for housing, healthcare and education subsidies.

It is flawed to assume that data stratification would "drive a wedge between different groups within our society".

Instead, there is no doubt that providing stratified statistics would contribute towards more informed public discourse and analyses of the socio-economic issues facing our country.

Sin Wei Xiang

Best post since you were made gate keeper