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Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners


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12 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSCCnr6yPCU

Did you even watch CCS reply in full? I don't think CCS reply is illogical or irresponsible. 

He did provide data on how Singaporeans has benefited and unemployment is low.

I think the right kind of data would be getting how much the salary of Singaporeans only has increased over the years. How much has the cost of medical, housing increased over the years?

What we need is an accurate picture of the quality of life of SINGAPOREANS not PRs. We also don't need data on how much goes to PRs and how much goes to Singaporeans. 

He provided a tiny biscuit of "locals" data after Pritam probed, but our definition of locals is very broad as it includes non-Singaporean. Upon further probing by Pritam for the split between Singaporeans and PR, he did not answer.

You argued along the same vein as CCS, like accusing others, asking questions on question, and not providing relevant and straight-to-the-point answer to the question.

I will not vote for you if you are a politician. And your line of argument has put me further away from pap if I'm allowed to be perfectly honest. You guys need to up your game. Election is serious matter. 

Edited by Weez911
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1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

as I said, lets say the data comes back as 60% goes to PR, 40% goes to Singaporeans. You happy already? What is your point of getting the data?

Because we want to know where is the problem if any.

It's like a cruise ship that is sinking.  All the sailors are busy taking buckets to drain water.  Passengers ask the captain where is the hole. 

Captain asks," what is the point of the question?"

Point is maybe a passenger knows how to plug a hole if it's small. Or maybe if it's too big run to decks for evacuation since its gonna sink.

By answering this way, only two thoughts come into mind.

1)  the captain knows the problem but he doesnt want to scare anyone - which might be good or bad depending on why he doesnt want to scare them

2)  the captain thinks he doesnt need any help

Number 2 is worrisome esp if the crew is not really on top of things as the captain thinks.

So in the same way, I think number 2 is why the ministers sound defensive. 

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10 minutes ago, Weez911 said:

He provided a tiny biscuit of "locals" data after Pritam probed, but our definition of locals is very broad as it includes non-Singaporean. Upon further probing by Pritam for the split between Singaporeans and PR, he did not answer.

You argued along the same vein as CCS, like accusing others, asking questions on question, and not providing relevant and straight-to-the-point answer to the question.

I will not vote for you if you are a politician. And your line of argument has put me further away from pap if I'm allowed to be perfectly honest. You guys need to up your game. Election is serious matter. 

Err...I am not pap. I think that is obvious if u actually follow my posts over the years.....

To be fair, ccs did say he will provide the numbers or did u missed that out as well. Ccs did not ask question on question. That question is kind of rhetoric or did u missed that ad well. He actually explained why that line of questioning is not healthy or good for Singaporeans. Or did u missed that as well?

 

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interesting read on GDP and how billionaire play a part in it

I am so impress with the GDP video that show Singapore GDP at one stage was 78k, am going to congratulate my regular cashier friend at SPC killiney road who is earning 1700 per month  or 22100k per year including bonus ,where his remaining 55900k been hiding

or the security guard over at my place who is earning 3000 per month or 39000k per year including bonus , where his remaining 39000k been hiding

 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/20/business/oxfam-billionaires-davos/index.html

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/money/is-having-individual-billionaires-good-or-bad-for-a-countrys-economy-10467258.html%3famp

 

https://www.milkenreview.org/articles/billionaires-and-growth

https://knoema.com/wqezguc/wealth-of-the-world-s-richest-people-vs-gdp-of-countries

Screenshot_20200116-113008_Chrome.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Because we want to know where is the problem if any.

It's like a cruise ship that is sinking.  All the sailors are busy taking buckets to drain water.  Passengers ask the captain where is the hole. 

Captain asks," what is the point of the question?"

Point is maybe a passenger knows how to plug a hole if it's small. Or maybe if it's too big run to decks for evacuation since its gonna sink.

By answering this way, only two thoughts come into mind.

1)  the captain knows the problem but he doesnt want to scare anyone - which might be good or bad depending on why he doesnt want to scare them

2)  the captain thinks he doesnt need any help

Number 2 is worrisome esp if the crew is not really on top of things as the captain thinks.

So in the same way, I think number 2 is why the ministers sound defensive. 

In Singapore, you are NOT an expert if you are not paid in millions.

That's why the ministar will tell you MAI KAY POH.

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39 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Because we want to know where is the problem if any.

It's like a cruise ship that is sinking.  All the sailors are busy taking buckets to drain water.  Passengers ask the captain where is the hole. 

Captain asks," what is the point of the question?"

Point is maybe a passenger knows how to plug a hole if it's small. Or maybe if it's too big run to decks for evacuation since its gonna sink.

By answering this way, only two thoughts come into mind.

1)  the captain knows the problem but he doesnt want to scare anyone - which might be good or bad depending on why he doesnt want to scare them

2)  the captain thinks he doesnt need any help

Number 2 is worrisome esp if the crew is not really on top of things as the captain thinks.

So in the same way, I think number 2 is why the ministers sound defensive. 

Thank you. Finally someone who actually provide reason why those data are useful. Rather than saying , it’s my right to know. I don’t care if it’s constructive or good for Singapore, I just want to know!

i think it is more like 1 but your scenario is not exactly right.

First, u are assuming the ship is sinking. I travel a lot, and I really don’t think Singapore ship is sinking. A better analogy is we are navigating a treacherous patch of waters trying to get to a destination of better living.

In reality, there is no easy path there. There is no way there without unpopular policies. 

using your sinking ship analogy, I think the question the wp is asking is not where is the hole, but why there are so many ft sailors on board..... 

 

 

ccs did say he will provide the numbers... but argues against irresponsible politics.

to me there are lots of data to ask for by wp. Why choose that data? Is it really to help find a better life for Singaporeans or just gain points for election?

if it is to help Singaporeans isn’t data like singaporean only salary, cost of living jobs more impt than how much PRs are earning?

 

Edited by Wind30
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1 hour ago, Kb27 said:

Let's see our highly vaunted ministar's great saying:

1. What's the point behind this question ?

2. What do you think ?

3.

 

Anything to add ?

But seriously, those are serious questions that invites slow sinkie to think about.

Got.

No. 3 Do you have a better solution?

Seriously, I would think a lion share goes to SPR for their relevant skill sets that the current market requires.

But I would like to see a decreasing share by SPR vis a vis citizen over the years. Otherwise it would mean those retraining schemes have failed and need recalibration at least. 

By releasing the data, Govt has every opportunity to explain if this is a problem, if sowhat they expect to do. If not, they can come down hard on WP for drive ng a wedge to our society.

Now do I have a solution.? No I don't. Should I shut up. No, no, no.

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This is really disheartening. We have one of the best education system in the world (based on rankings etc.) But we are told that our workforce does not have the skill sets for certain jobs and yet we rely on certain country up north in South Asia to fill these jobs, I do not see those certain countries’ education being touted as the best. 

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11 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

Thank you. Finally someone who actually provide reason why those data are useful. Rather than saying , it’s my right to know. I don’t care if it’s constructive or good for Singapore, I just want to know!

i think it is more like 1 but your scenario is not exactly right.

First, u are assuming the ship is sinking. I travel a lot, and I really don’t think Singapore ship is sinking. A better analogy is we are navigating a treacherous patch of waters trying to get to a destination of better living.

In reality, there is no easy path there. There is no way there without unpopular policies. 
 

ccs did say he will provide the numbers... but argues against irresponsible politics.

to me there are lots of data to ask for by wp. Why choose that data? Is it really to help find a better life for Singaporeans or just gain points for election?

if it is to help Singaporeans isn’t data like singaporean only salary, cost of living jobs more impt than how much PRs are earning?

 

It is ok to have unpopular polices. We all know that.

However, it is not ok if singaporeans are often put in the backseat in the name of "putting country before self" just so that we can kowtow to other countries by employing their "FTs" in favor of locals.

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28 minutes ago, TangoCharlie said:

By releasing the data, Govt has every opportunity to explain if this is a problem, if sowhat they expect to do. If not, they can come down hard on WP for drive ng a wedge to our society.

that is the very problem.... that catch all accusation is so very North Korea, or maoist... so kangaroo that it bounces everywhere.... its the perfect excuse for abuse of power in a system like ours.

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1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

 

I actually read that piece of .... 

"The ball is in the court of the government to explain why any Singapore PMET has to become a security guard – with statistics. Even one Singapore graduate with an MBA working to be a guard or tuition teacher is a big indictment of our manpower management."

I think it is just a useless piece of .... when you write stuff like that. there is always that one sad singaporean case. What the government needs to do is to lift the lives of as many singaporeans as possible. Choose among paths the "best" one of singapore. It will not be an ideal path like EVERY singaporean gets good job which is what this author is trying to sell. Like I said irresponsible politics, promising or demanding unreasonable stuff... 

 

I see that as no different as the popular..."..every child matters .." etc etc... its  a mother hood statement. 

 

the crux of the article is that its the MP's job to ask something that many people is dying to know. And CCS is being a dick.

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38 minutes ago, Atachi said:

This is really disheartening. We have one of the best education system in the world (based on rankings etc.) But we are told that our workforce does not have the skill sets for certain jobs and yet we rely on certain country up north in South Asia to fill these jobs, I do not see those certain countries’ education being touted as the best. 

Education is general knowledge.... no one is looking for fresh grads.... 

it’s not about who is better but experience and specialised skill set. 

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1 hour ago, TangoCharlie said:

 

By releasing the data, Govt has every opportunity to explain if this is a problem,

exactly,

now we only ask to see the numbers, we haven even start to say its good or bad, or even have the chance to discuss and debate,

and ccs already went on the defensive, start to take nice stuff about themself, cannot even finish listening what he is saying, will vomit. 

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1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

Thank you. Finally someone who actually provide reason why those data are useful. Rather than saying , it’s my right to know. I don’t care if it’s constructive or good for Singapore, I just want to know!

i think it is more like 1 but your scenario is not exactly right.

First, u are assuming the ship is sinking. I travel a lot, and I really don’t think Singapore ship is sinking. A better analogy is we are navigating a treacherous patch of waters trying to get to a destination of better living.

In reality, there is no easy path there. There is no way there without unpopular policies. 

using your sinking ship analogy, I think the question the wp is asking is not where is the hole, but why there are so many ft sailors on board..... 

 

 

ccs did say he will provide the numbers... but argues against irresponsible politics.

to me there are lots of data to ask for by wp. Why choose that data? Is it really to help find a better life for Singaporeans or just gain points for election?

if it is to help Singaporeans isn’t data like singaporean only salary, cost of living jobs more impt than how much PRs are earning?

 

Singapore = Sinkapore = sinkie = sinking

:D in case u wanna know where the analogy came from. But your analogy is fine.

adding to your example, I think WP is asking how come so many FT sailors who act busy but the ship is still shaking.

I think the issue like how much PR are earning is actually another way of finding if good jobs are only going to PR.  Good jobs = jobs with good salary.  Table wiper with rolex is also a good job.

I THINK the issue is this.  Singaporeans are relatively well paid in relatively good jobs in general.  But there is a sense of unfairness in the sense that PRs are getting benefits.  This sense of unfairness is where the unhappiness is.

Imagine in my job.  I work very hard.  I got A for appraisal (let me dream a bit).  My colleage just do average.  He gets an A also.  Now I never lost out.  But I feel it's unfair that a not so hardworking person gets A as well.  Or I am lazy.  I get a C.  An equally lazy person gets a B.  So unfair.

Dont underestimate this perception of unfairness.   It can cause a lot of negativity and maybe that is the point behind pritam question.

Let's not go into unfair hiring practices for now. 

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1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

In Singapore, you are NOT an expert if you are not paid in millions.

That's why the ministar will tell you MAI KAY POH.

Those paid in millions only know how to ask public for solutions... 😂 

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29 minutes ago, Angcheek said:

The debate here is no less happening then those in the parliament 😁😂 ... 

To be fair, there is not much debate going on in parliament because one side has all the data and the other side has none. And when that side with no data asked for more data, he got a contemptuous and dismissive reply from the side with all the data and power.

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everywhere headcount freeze and cost control....1 ft employed for his relevant skills means that 1 sg fresh grad is not being trained for the job

so how and where are fresh graduates going to gain relevant skillsets and experience to replace these ft in future?

don't tell me educational institutions har....

😵

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