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Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners


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2 hours ago, Playtime said:

that is the very problem.... that catch all accusation is so very North Korea, or maoist... so kangaroo that it bounces everywhere.... its the perfect excuse for abuse of power in a system like ours.

 

1 hour ago, Beregond said:

exactly,

now we only ask to see the numbers, we haven even start to say its good or bad, or even have the chance to discuss and debate,

and ccs already went on the defensive, start to take nice stuff about themself, cannot even finish listening what he is saying, will vomit. 

We citizens are so emotional, narrow minded, easily inflamed,  uneducated that we must be protected from the data. People who questioned are either misinformed or have an agenda.

It's human nature we kick the ladder down when we have reached the top. That's why some industries are so niche that they claim only employ people with experience and specialised skillsets.

Eg Governing Singapore is so complex that only PAP is qualified and have more 50 years of experience. Opposition? Nah, they can't even managed a Town council. 

Have we thought about how PAP started?

As an opposition. LoL.

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1 hour ago, Philipkee said:

Singapore = Sinkapore = sinkie = sinking

:D in case u wanna know where the analogy came from. But your analogy is fine.

adding to your example, I think WP is asking how come so many FT sailors who act busy but the ship is still shaking.

I think the issue like how much PR are earning is actually another way of finding if good jobs are only going to PR.  Good jobs = jobs with good salary.  Table wiper with rolex is also a good job.

I THINK the issue is this.  Singaporeans are relatively well paid in relatively good jobs in general.  But there is a sense of unfairness in the sense that PRs are getting benefits.  This sense of unfairness is where the unhappiness is.

Imagine in my job.  I work very hard.  I got A for appraisal (let me dream a bit).  My colleage just do average.  He gets an A also.  Now I never lost out.  But I feel it's unfair that a not so hardworking person gets A as well.  Or I am lazy.  I get a C.  An equally lazy person gets a B.  So unfair.

Dont underestimate this perception of unfairness.   It can cause a lot of negativity and maybe that is the point behind pritam question.

Let's not go into unfair hiring practices for now. 

That is not what WP is asking. They are not even saying the FT sailors are acting busy. They are just asking among the new sailors, how many are FT and how many are Singaporeans.

To me, this line of discussion is not constructive or beneficial to singapore.

If they are asking and showing that the FT sailors are NOT pulling their weight, or they are just here as dead weight, then I believe it is constructive. 

To me the point of the question is crucial. If WP intends to use that as a starting point to analyse whether those FTs were necessary to pull in investments, then I feel it is ok.

If the opposition just intend to use the data to stoke further this perception of unfairness, I feel it is just bad politics. 

That is why I find it sad that most people ridicule CCS when he presented his rebuttal. BTW, I don't really like CCS... 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

That is not what WP is asking. They are not even saying the FT sailors are acting busy. They are just asking among the new sailors, how many are FT and how many are Singaporeans.

To me, this line of discussion is not constructive or beneficial to singapore.

If they are asking and showing that the FT sailors are NOT pulling their weight, or they are just here as dead weight, then I believe it is constructive. 

To me the point of the question is crucial. If WP intends to use that as a starting point to analyse whether those FTs were necessary to pull in investments, then I feel it is ok.

If the opposition just intend to use the data to stoke further this perception of unfairness, I feel it is just bad politics. 

That is why I find it sad that most people ridicule CCS when he presented his rebuttal. BTW, I don't really like CCS...

I help you - this line of discussion is not constructive or beneficial to pap

To pap

To pap

To pap

And pap <> Singapore.

Edited by Weez911
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1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

That is not what WP is asking. They are not even saying the FT sailors are acting busy. They are just asking among the new sailors, how many are FT and how many are Singaporeans.

To me, this line of discussion is not constructive or beneficial to singapore.

If they are asking and showing that the FT sailors are NOT pulling their weight, or they are just here as dead weight, then I believe it is constructive. 

To me the point of the question is crucial. If WP intends to use that as a starting point to analyse whether those FTs were necessary to pull in investments, then I feel it is ok.

If the opposition just intend to use the data to stoke further this perception of unfairness, I feel it is just bad politics. 

That is why I find it sad that most people ridicule CCS when he presented his rebuttal. BTW, I don't really like CCS... 

 

 

From all your "if" statements, I am curious how you conclude Pritam was engaging in bad politics?

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3 hours ago, Enye said:

everywhere headcount freeze and cost control....1 ft employed for his relevant skills means that 1 sg fresh grad is not being trained for the job

so how and where are fresh graduates going to gain relevant skillsets and experience to replace these ft in future?

don't tell me educational institutions har....

😵

Simple...anyhow anywhere as long as NIMBY.🙊

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30 minutes ago, TangoCharlie said:

From all your "if" statements, I am curious how you conclude Pritam was engaging in bad politics?

I mentioned before.  But not sure which forum or thread.

Cos we know ourselves.  We dont know the other person.

So if I lean over a wall and look at your garden, I know I am admiring the flowers and indirectly complimenting you so I take offence at you being offended.

If you leant over the wall and looked at my garden, I think you are trying to case my house to prepare for robbery so I shoot you.

Point here.

I know my motives.  Hence I ascribe my actions with the purest of motives and intentions.  I dont know your motive.  So I subscribe the worst motive and intention to your actions.

And we can see this in parliament.  Where PAP assumes that what they do is the best for us and anyone questioning is trying to find fault for no other reason than to find fault.  Thats how they justify their own actions and how they justify avoiding answering questions asked by opposition.

And it's not healthy.

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4 hours ago, Enye said:

everywhere headcount freeze and cost control....1 ft employed for his relevant skills means that 1 sg fresh grad is not being trained for the job

so how and where are fresh graduates going to gain relevant skillsets and experience to replace these ft in future?

don't tell me educational institutions har....

😵

Elite provide $500 upgrade education ... after that one will become guru in that field and can fight with FT for job security. 

I think massage industry is still booming ... 😁 

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21 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

I mentioned before.  But not sure which forum or thread.

Cos we know ourselves.  We dont know the other person.

So if I lean over a wall and look at your garden, I know I am admiring the flowers and indirectly complimenting you so I take offence at you being offended.

If you leant over the wall and looked at my garden, I think you are trying to case my house to prepare for robbery so I shoot you.

Point here.

I know my motives.  Hence I ascribe my actions with the purest of motives and intentions.  I dont know your motive.  So I subscribe the worst motive and intention to your actions.

And we can see this in parliament.  Where PAP assumes that what they do is the best for us and anyone questioning is trying to find fault for no other reason than to find fault.  Thats how they justify their own actions and how they justify avoiding answering questions asked by opposition.

And it's not healthy.

Thank you. I understand why CCS think this way towards Pritam. But why wind30 too? I thought it is too hasty to jump into that bad politics conclusion.

Anyway the numbers are out. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/majority-of-new-jobs-created-go-to-singaporeans-and-will-continue-to-do-so-chan-chun-sing?xtor=CS3-17&utm_source=STSmartphone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-01-16+18%3A06%3A40

Like I mentioned earlier, the trend is important so this forms the baseline for the coming years.

Just hope CCS continue to disclose and better still breakdown by sectors so we know the upskill and reskill initiaives are bearing fruit.

Local for the top job once occupied by foreigners.👍

Screenshot_20200116-180556.png

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5 minutes ago, TangoCharlie said:

Thank you. I understand why CCS think this way towards Pritam. But why wind30 too? I thought it is too hasty to jump into that bad politics conclusion.

Experience.  We have forumers from all walks of life and occupation.  So they may have seen and experienced things not everyone has seen.  Hence, their posts.

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1 hour ago, TangoCharlie said:

From all your "if" statements, I am curious how you conclude Pritam was engaging in bad politics?

Agreed. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. similarly, how do u conclude that Pritam is not engaging in bad politics? I think ccs question on pritams intentions is reasonable and justified. 
 

My post is probably more directed at the masses here in mcf and online who harps on ccs reply and quote it out of context. 

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5 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Experience.  We have forumers from all walks of life and occupation.  So they may have seen and experienced things not everyone has seen.  Hence, their posts.

U just need to visit mcf to get your share of bad politics, whereby points are scored irrespective whether it’s good for Singapore....

the classic, pap always do bad, I want to do different and I don’t care whether is there a better alternative... they just don’t care whether the other path is better or not.... they just assume it will be better...

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47 minutes ago, TangoCharlie said:

Thank you. I understand why CCS think this way towards Pritam. But why wind30 too? I thought it is too hasty to jump into that bad politics conclusion.

Anyway the numbers are out. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/majority-of-new-jobs-created-go-to-singaporeans-and-will-continue-to-do-so-chan-chun-sing?xtor=CS3-17&utm_source=STSmartphone&utm_medium=share&utm_term=2020-01-16+18%3A06%3A40

Like I mentioned earlier, the trend is important so this forms the baseline for the coming years.

Just hope CCS continue to disclose and better still breakdown by sectors so we know the upskill and reskill initiaives are bearing fruit.

Local for the top job once occupied by foreigners.👍

Screenshot_20200116-180556.png

Seriously 80% went to Singaporeans??? Not in my industry... they must have included all the grab Drivers.... 

did they say it was PMETs? I am more interested in sdp arguments on PMETs employment dats.

 

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4 hours ago, Enye said:

everywhere headcount freeze and cost control....1 ft employed for his relevant skills means that 1 sg fresh grad is not being trained for the job

so how and where are fresh graduates going to gain relevant skillsets and experience to replace these ft in future?

don't tell me educational institutions har....

😵

True hor. More than 20 years ago, many MNCs were hiring fresh graduates and training them on the job. These days, most companies prefer to hire experienced staff able to hit the road and run on day 1, my current employer included. 
 

Is this due to availability of a wider pool of global talents (perhaps many skilled FT happy with fresh graduate pay) or businesses can no longer afford to spend time and resources to train the young and inexperienced? If so, what can be done to improve the situation?


Maybe G can also provide more detailed info on how our fresh graduates are faring in the job market. Based on the employment data of fresh graduates provided by G, it seems more than 90% found job within 6 months after graduation with year on year growth in median salary. The numbers look pretty but my young nephew has been complaining to me he can only get contract work since graduation 1 year ago and not in the field he wanted.  Maybe unrealistic expectations but the devil is really in the data. 

Is it the bad economy causing approximately half of our fresh graduates to end up with contract positions (based on some news report)? 

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2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Agreed. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. similarly, how do u conclude that Pritam is not engaging in bad politics? I think ccs question on pritams intentions is reasonable and justified. 
 

My post is probably more directed at the masses here in mcf and online who harps on ccs reply and quote it out of context. 

I did not draw any conclusion. I made the point that non disclosure made people assumed the worst.

 

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Turbocharged
1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

Seriously 80% went to Singaporeans??? Not in my industry... they must have included all the grab Drivers.... 

did they say it was PMETs? I am more interested in sdp arguments on PMETs employment dats.

 

Don't resonate with me too. I'm in IT... Myself and a few other middle to senior management were laid off. None of the foreigners and CECA were touched, and they held equal and high positions.

I have raised a complaint to TAFEP.. well.. they 'investigated'.

They also called me to understand about programs the company arranged prior and after our retrenchment, and compensation provided. From the officer's tone on the phone, I think they are okay with that... Well..If given a choice, nobody wanted those...

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1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

Seriously 80% went to Singaporeans??? Not in my industry... they must have included all the grab Drivers.... 

did they say it was PMETs? I am more interested in sdp arguments on PMETs employment dats.

 

Any honourable member wish to take this up further with CCS?

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2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Agreed. I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. similarly, how do u conclude that Pritam is not engaging in bad politics? I think ccs question on pritams intentions is reasonable and justified. 
 

My post is probably more directed at the masses here in mcf and online who harps on ccs reply and quote it out of context. 

Bro 

I understand my opponent's situation and position.

You see even though I dislike writing this I must be fair.

Pritam is an opposition MP. He is suppose to bring any questions that his residents ask to parliament, even if just 1 resident ask.

From here, in MCF, many wants to know the breakdown, this is their right but that right does not mean the government necessarily need to provide as there are many sensitive reasons.

 

The important issue, is no point second guess what the MP or Minister is thinking because truly you will NEVER know the truth. 

 

But more importantly is do you want to know the figures / data. If you don't want to know (I reserve a packet of chicken rice with drumstick for you) or want to know is literally your business. But you and I have NO right to stop others from wanting to know the figures / data especially when they felt being part of the statistics.

 

 

Think about it, why should the POFMA be discussed behind close door in courts. How in the world would citizens learn what is the right thing to do and what is wrong thing to do with regards to POFMA if arguments from both sides are not heard. This has nothing to do with me. So don't blame me.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ash2017
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14 hours ago, Wind30 said:

 

are u guys going to carry pitchforks and scold the government?

I will not do that, just let my vote do the job. 

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