Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners

[Wind30]

11 hours ago, Carbon82 said:

My solution is what many have already mentioned: Education. And I mean starting to train local graduate the skill set needed when EDB map out the economic master plan for the next 5 - 10 years.

 Quote you an life example I have seen for myself. I used to work in an aerospace firm, and my understanding is that our government have started mooting the idea of establishing an aerospace park back in early 2006. But when the first few aerospace firms started their operation at the new Seletar Aerospace Park in 2011/ 2012, there isn't any many local technical expertise in this field, and our government then started to get ITE, Polytechnic and University to offer relevant courses to back fill the gap.

  

Are you saying the aerospace initiative was badly planned? I live near seletar airport so I am kind of curious why the aerospace park did not really take off, like not that many people there even now...

I do agree that education needs to be more closely tied to the industry and foresight is needed though. It is not that easy... 

imagine you start training the aerospace workforce late, and by they time they graduate and gain experience.... the industry might be in a downturn.

Honestly, that are the issues I hope WP is raising. Is our education direction right? Are we equipping the right skills to our people. Are we just chasing after the next hot thing without looking if the local workforce can support it? To me, I feel there is a need to protect the industry once you put your bets on it because it concerns people's lives.  

If you choose the wrong bets, a bunch of people get stuck in a sunset industry... retraining to me is a fantasy at 40 plus...

[Wind30]

2 hours ago, Weez911 said:

looking at the numbers I can see why 60k jobs over 4 years, 80% went to singaporeans....

I could not believe the 80% number but now I see it is possible with the above chart.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Wind30

[Ash2017]

5 hours ago, Wind30 said:

The above is obviously not true. Parliament time is really small. Pritam has to choose the most impt questions to ask... sure one, I expect out if 100 questions asked by Tom Dick Harry, he only have time for 1....

Really, but got enough time for Oxley Road Saga?

Therefore I really think the point of the question is Important...

i am not going to criticise without providing a better alternative (questions you ask)
if I am Pritam, the data I ask will be the employment numbers of local born Singaporeans, the salary distribution of local born Singaporeans, the cost of living, housing, medical. U need to restrict the data set to local born Singaporeans so that the data is not corrupted by new citizens, etc.
these data I feel is crucial in finding out, on the whole , has our strategy worked. Does it matter if ft gets paid more if the lives of Singaporeans as improved significantly??

Yes, if you were Pritam but unfortunately you are NOT. Do you really believe that when what Pritam asked could NOT get an answer BUT your number of questions will get an answer from ME (CCS).

thus I really feel wp direction of questioning is wrong. Sdp current investigation is better I feel. 

No doubt I am still "new" in the political game BUT you must ask yourself the following questions: 1. is WP or SDP in parliament? 2. WP had been in the parliament for the longest time when compared to the closest of opposition parties? There must be a reason. I believe one of the reason is to ask prying question without causing me or my colleagues to lose face or put us in a corner. Otherwise we will come down hard, very hard on you. Please do remember, asking questions in parliament and asking questions in social media is completely different. 

 

 

 

[Victor68]

I wonder is it very difficult to know the total employment strength here is Singapore? If cannot have this number means many are not paying taxes and cpf. 

Then if we do have this number, surely we know how many under work permit, special passes, PR and citizen right? I don't think we want to confuse with creation per year or projection and all that stuff. Simple data will help us understand why we seem to be foreigner in our own country. They all didn't look like tourists or visitors leh.

[Vratenza]

4 hours ago, Victor68 said:

I wonder is it very difficult to know the total employment strength here is Singapore? If cannot have this number means many are not paying taxes and cpf. 

Then if we do have this number, surely we know how many under work permit, special passes, PR and citizen right? I don't think we want to confuse with creation per year or projection and all that stuff. Simple data will help us understand why we seem to be foreigner in our own country. They all didn't look like tourists or visitors leh.

As an internationally recognised nanny state... Our people has absolute conviction that there is no way our dear government do not have the said data. 

That is why the question was "Can we have the data?" rather than "Do you have the data?" 

Now you get the point of the question? 😁

Edited January 17, 2020 by Vratenza

[Sdf4786k]

1 hour ago, Vratenza said:

As an internationally recognised nanny state... Our people has absolute conviction that there is no way our dear government do not have the said data. 

That is why the question was "Can we have the data?" rather than "Do you have the data?" 

Now you get the point of the question? 😁

We have Data Analytics and Big Data, You want to slice and dices the data real-time in Hadoop you get in minutes if not in secs and give you in a nice shade of pastel color by tableau Data presenter,

So its only a matter of keeping the requester keen like going on a date, is the secret.

As they say, a good conversation is like a sexy woman in a dress. Short enough to keep you interested, long enough to cover the essential parts. 

[Fuelsaver]

On 1/16/2020 at 8:58 AM, Wind30 said:

as I said, lets say the data comes back as 60% goes to PR, 40% goes to Singaporeans. You happy already? What is your point of getting the data?

Trend analysis should be for over a period. At any point is no point.

[Carbon82]

11 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Are you saying the aerospace initiative was badly planned? I live near seletar airport so I am kind of curious why the aerospace park did not really take off, like not that many people there even now...

I do agree that education needs to be more closely tied to the industry and foresight is needed though. It is not that easy... 

imagine you start training the aerospace workforce late, and by they time they graduate and gain experience.... the industry might be in a downturn.

Honestly, that are the issues I hope WP is raising. Is our education direction right? Are we equipping the right skills to our people. Are we just chasing after the next hot thing without looking if the local workforce can support it? To me, I feel there is a need to protect the industry once you put your bets on it because it concerns people's lives.  

If you choose the wrong bets, a bunch of people get stuck in a sunset industry... retraining to me is a fantasy at 40 plus...

I don't want to revealed too much info about the aerospace firm I mentioned, but imagine not enough local technician, engineer, and even production as well as quality team... So does that answer your question?

Today news is about the upcoming Punggol Digital District, to be readied by 2023. As usual it mentioned that the new district concept will create employment for Singaporean, but are we really ready for it?? 

[Ash2017]

1 hour ago, Carbon82 said:

I don't want to revealed too much info about the aerospace firm I mentioned, but imagine not enough local technician, engineer, and even production as well as quality team... So does that answer your question?

Today news is about the upcoming Punggol Digital District, to be readied by 2023. As usual it mentioned that the new district concept will create employment for Singaporean, but are we really ready for it?? 

It seems your packet of chicken rice from me is getting very cold.

[Gizmore]

15 hours ago, Wind30 said:

so the data is there. Now what??? As I said I am curious Like ccs what’s the point of getting those data.

people never watch the video. Ccs never said he is not going to give data. Right up front, he said we can get you the data before asking what’s the point. Sometimes online people just never bother to even hear the context.... 

Sorry, as a Singaporean and I'm sure many would agree, that it is a very relevant data. Yes, I may know the data. Like what CCS said, what's the point? Nothing will change now. The world keeps spinning, I wake up on Monday and report back to work still.

The data serve as a feedback to me how Government polices affected me and fellow Singaporean. 

When the time comes for me to make a choice, those data will affect my decision. 

And what irks me is the question of "what's the point". Like as if Pritam is asking an idiotic question in parliament.

[Wind30]

4 hours ago, Gizmore said:

Sorry, as a Singaporean and I'm sure many would agree, that it is a very relevant data. Yes, I may know the data. Like what CCS said, what's the point? Nothing will change now. The world keeps spinning, I wake up on Monday and report back to work still.

The data serve as a feedback to me how Government polices affected me and fellow Singaporean. 

When the time comes for me to make a choice, those data will affect my decision. 

And what irks me is the question of "what's the point". Like as if Pritam is asking an idiotic question in parliament.

Exactly! Actually your post supports exactly ccs argument.....

the specific data, the division of new jobs between ft and locals actually does not tell how much the lives locals has improved or gotten worse. As I mentioned multiple times, the relevant data for that is local specific employment, salary data plus cost of living. 
To me, the main thing this specific Set of data does is to fan envy and sway votes like you mention...

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Wind30

[Vratenza]

3 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Exactly! Actually your post supports exactly ccs argument.....

the specific data, the division of new jobs between ft and locals actually does not tell how much the lives locals has improved or gotten worse. As I mentioned multiple times, the relevant data for that is local specific employment, salary data plus cost of living. 
To me, the main thing this specific Set of data does is to fan envy and sway votes like you mention...

 

 

I beg to differ and much like alot of others in this forum:

We the citizens don't need a set of data to tell us how much more we have to spend on a plate of mee siam mai hum, how much more effort we need to watch how we spend our relatively stagnant salary, how often our salaries are depressed by "foreign talent alternatives", how much more ERP and petrol we have to pay, how much more crowded on the roads and public transport despite all that extra costs, how much we feel an outsider in our own country that we serve with our blood and sweat. 

Fan envy and sway votes?

What envy? Aint this Singapore the last I check? If the specific set of data can set SINGAPOREANS envying PR (Citizens of other countries)... Something is seriously wrong. And this wrong needs to be corrected at the next GE. 

 

[Wind30]

12 minutes ago, Vratenza said:

I beg to differ and much like alot of others in this forum:

We the citizens don't need a set of data to tell us how much more we have to spend on a plate of mee siam mai hum, how much more effort we need to watch how we spend our relatively stagnant salary, how often our salaries are depressed by "foreign talent alternatives", how much more ERP and petrol we have to pay, how much more crowded on the roads and public transport despite all that extra costs, how much we feel an outsider in our own country that we serve with our blood and sweat. 

Fan envy and sway votes?

What envy? Aint this Singapore the last I check? If the specific set of data can set SINGAPOREANS envying PR (Citizens of other countries)... Something is seriously wrong. And this wrong needs to be corrected at the next GE. 

 

? Maybe you do not but the policy makers do. It is really not about one person... to me it is a bit like circuit design... there are all sort of constraints and trade offs. Do we have the right specs? Is our specs the quality of living of Singaporeans or ratio of ft vs locals? They are two different things. Having the right specs is the first and prob the most impt step in design...

Just like I simulate my designs and measure the performance based on the specs, the right data is impt in policy making.

to me all along, the ratio of ft and locals is not as impt as the hard salary numbers of local born Singaporeans tracked over many years.

 

your post is a perfect example for ccs argument. Most people are like u, they don’t try to understand if there is a valid reason behind bad statistics. They take the numbers and say we will vote out the incumbent. Without even trying to understand, let’s say we reduce ft, will that give us locals a better life or even worse? 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Wind30

[Mkl22]

On 1/15/2020 at 4:09 PM, Vratenza said:

😂If and when IRAS ask me to submit my business book keeping account for auditing, I will tell them " I have the data, but let me ask you.. What is the point of the question?" 

What do you think? 

😁

 

Best to do it during Kee chiu walkabout when he ask “how are you?”. Then one should reply what is the point of this question? 

[Playtime]

3 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Exactly! Actually your post supports exactly ccs argument.....

the specific data, the division of new jobs between ft and locals actually does not tell how much the lives locals has improved or gotten worse. As I mentioned multiple times, the relevant data for that is local specific employment, salary data plus cost of living. 
To me, the main thing this specific Set of data does is to fan envy and sway votes like you mention...

 

 

The fact is even traditionally pro pap people reject CCS argument. 

It's not up to him to him to say

"...does not tell how much the lives locals has improved or gotten worse..".. he is not in the army and we aren't his privates to squeeze and play with. 

Cos that dam line of argument if allowed can be used everywhere..

1) number of and amount spent on FT scholars. 

2) obscene self given salaries of politicians. 

3) immigration numbers. 

4) hdb supply and pricing .

5) annual budget. 

6) hospital capacities and cost. Etc

This is not asking for technical radar details of the F15sg, or the combat suite of the new multi billion German submarines.

You get the drift,  every one of those info can be withheld with his ridiculous argument, this is classic FLOATING BALLOONS time for them to see how far they can go chipping away. 

 

 

[Vratenza]

39 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

? Maybe you do not but the policy makers do. It is really not about one person... to me it is a bit like circuit design... there are all sort of constraints and trade offs. Do we have the right specs? Is our specs the quality of living of Singaporeans or ratio of ft vs locals? They are two different things. Having the right specs is the first and prob the most impt step in design...

Just like I simulate my designs and measure the performance based on the specs, the right data is impt in policy making.

to me all along, the ratio of ft and locals is not as impt as the hard salary numbers of local born Singaporeans tracked over many years.

 

your post is a perfect example for ccs argument. Most people are like u, they don’t try to understand if there is a valid reason behind bad statistics. They take the numbers and say we will vote out the incumbent. Without even trying to understand, let’s say we reduce ft, will that give us locals a better life or even worse? 

 

Why so scared of the truth? 😁

When one needs to set up POFMA, fix the opponents, hide the data.... What I see is a serious case of political insecurities.... I imagine Kim Jong UN will have similar concerns... 😂

Edited January 18, 2020 by Vratenza

[Wind30]

7 minutes ago, Playtime said:

The fact is even traditionally pro pap people reject CCS argument. 

It's not up to him to him to say

"...does not tell how much the lives locals has improved or gotten worse..".. he is not in the army and we aren't his privates to squeeze and play with. 

Cos that dam line of argument if allowed can be used everywhere..

1) number of and amount spent on FT scholars. 

2) obscene self given salaries of politicians. 

3) immigration numbers. 

4) hdb supply and pricing .

5) annual budget. 

6) hospital capacities and cost. Etc

This is not asking for technical radar details of the F15sg, or the combat suite of the new multi billion German submarines.

You get the drift,  every one of those info can be withheld with his ridiculous argument, this is classic FLOATING BALLOONS time for them to see how far they can go chipping away. 

 

 

?? Do u understand his argument? And he was not even arguing to withhold the data... sigh... he said it up front, first sentence that he can get pritam the data

i am pretty sure the argument is not valid in 4 5 and 6...

Edited January 18, 2020 by Wind30

[Beregond]

8 hours ago, Gizmore said:

Sorry, as a Singaporean and I'm sure many would agree, that it is a very relevant data. Yes, I may know the data. Like what CCS said, what's the point? Nothing will change now. The world keeps spinning, I wake up on Monday and report back to work still.

The data serve as a feedback to me how Government polices affected me and fellow Singaporean. 

When the time comes for me to make a choice, those data will affect my decision. 

And what irks me is the question of "what's the point". Like as if Pritam is asking an idiotic question in parliament.

if we cannot change anything mean we cannot ask and find out. might as well dun have parliament or opposition. they rule close door enough??

nothing change for now, dun mean we dun have the power to change anything, its exactly the opposite, we have the power to change thing, thats why the respond form keechui.

and i want to know the detail, how many % of the top pme job go to local, how many to ft, all i want to know.