Pritam Singh asked Chan Chun Sing whether is PAP releasing the amount of jobs between locals and foreigners

[Alfc]

Perhaps got to also ask besides the 70% thingy, has one contributed to self replacement at least before commenting on too many FT or influx. i.e has one at least give birth to your own successor headcount for headcount wise.

And then the usual cost of living blah blah blah come in again. So what do one want then? Become the same prata flipper?

 

[Vratenza]

5 hours ago, yishunite said:

I actually agree with govt that we need immigration (in the short term) becoz our birthrate is so low. But all this is actually missing the bigger point

As a industrialized economy we are doing great as demonstrated by profitable companies gdp growth blahblahblah

As a human society we are utter failure as demonstrated by our birthrate. If not for migration we singaporeans would actually be going extinct. Imagine ur a zookeeper with singaporean and this is the birthrate. Cannot throw in a indian or prc into the same cage and still call it a singaporean exhibit. If ur only solution was reproduction we would be in total panic mode. Somehow we still cant see that we are dying out and migration is just a plaster over a festering wound

Why developed countries like sweden do not have low birthrate issues? 

Is it because of race? Because of geographical issues like water we drink? 

No. 

It's government policies and how these policies have been focused on growing gdp at the expense of nurturing generations of Singaporean who are pro children and family.  Everything needs a balance but unfortunately our government is only good at quick fix solutions like opening immigration flood gates and FT/PR to grow the gdp but yet worsen Singaporean from wanting bigger families. Do we want chicken rice at hawker centres, food court or restaurants? 

[Wind30]

26 minutes ago, Vratenza said:

Why developed countries like sweden do not have low birthrate issues? 

Is it because of race? Because of geographical issues like water we drink? 

No. 

It's government policies and how these policies have been focused on growing gdp at the expense of nurturing generations of Singaporean who are pro children and family.  Everything needs a balance but unfortunately our government is only good at quick fix solutions like opening immigration flood gates and FT/PR to grow the gdp but yet worsen Singaporean from wanting bigger families. Do we want chicken rice at hawker centres, food court or restaurants? 

? Why quote Sweden??? Uncle, Sweden quite far away.... aren’t u cherry picking data?

I googled, Korea, Taiwan, hongkong, japan....all similar to Singapore...

 

 

[Wind30]

2 hours ago, yishunite said:

I alrdy got kids. Im not the problem. Problem is our society as a whole cant reproduce itself atm

how many kids u have? I think the problem lies in those family with kids... like mine. I think most Singaporeans want to have kids but not many. I wanted to have only one but end with with 2. Theoretically I think each family needs to have three... cuz there are people who can’t find spouse, gays, cannot have children etc. These people sometimes has no choice in not having kids.

But it’s hard to convince family to have more than 2 I think. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Wind30

[yishunite]

12 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

how many kids u have? I think the problem lies in those family with kids... like mine. I think most Singaporeans want to have kids but not many. I wanted to have only one but end with with 2. Theoretically I think each family needs to have three... cuz there are people who can’t find spouse, gays, cannot have children etc. These people sometimes has no choice in not having kids.

But it’s hard to convince family to have more than 2 I think. 

Ya becoz once have more than 2 your costs shoot up... must buy 7-seater car, pay 3x/4x uni fees (if you got ambitions for them), 5-room HDB is minimum (goodluck with a condo), both spouses die die must work even when more kids need more time, etc etc no amount of money gahmen throw at u will make up for that not to mention the time sink.

So it is rational to stop at 1 or 2.

Yes I have 2. I also come from stop-at-2 generation so I think this is nice number even aside from all the rational reasons

So if need to pick up slack think of all the singles who put career first then by the time they find partner decide family is a drag and not worth doing. Dont look at us who had at least some kids

[Playtime]

31 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

? Why quote Sweden??? Uncle, Sweden quite far away.... aren’t u cherry picking data?

I googled, Korea, Taiwan, hongkong, japan....all similar to Singapore...

 

 

Perhaps they are all similar to Singapore in being rat race.

 

Sweden and some of its neighbor has some very good social safety net and pro family policies. No? That's the difference

[Enye]

i have 3 kids... on a single income 

life is tough indeed i have to admit but my main concern is .... with companies going for ft who already have the skills and experience instead of training and grooming up the young ones, what future would they have under such circumstances?

😓😖

[Playtime]

22 minutes ago, Enye said:

i have 3 kids... on a single income 

life is tough indeed i have to admit but my main concern is .... with companies going for ft who already have the skills and experience instead of training and grooming up the young ones, what future would they have under such circumstances?

😓😖

i salute u. 

really not easy. 🙋‍♂️

[Sosaria]

1 hour ago, yishunite said:

Ya becoz once have more than 2 your costs shoot up... must buy 7-seater car, pay 3x/4x uni fees (if you got ambitions for them), 5-room HDB is minimum (goodluck with a condo), both spouses die die must work even when more kids need more time, etc etc no amount of money gahmen throw at u will make up for that not to mention the time sink.

So it is rational to stop at 1 or 2.

Yes I have 2. I also come from stop-at-2 generation so I think this is nice number even aside from all the rational reasons

So if need to pick up slack think of all the singles who put career first then by the time they find partner decide family is a drag and not worth doing. Dont look at us who had at least some kids

Find table at food court or hawker centre also tough

I have more than the usual number of kids, to be honest, it's do-able, but not something that should be done as a duty, or thinking about economics etc.

Having two is at least already a good thing, because our TFR is abysmal, less than 1.5?

But to have more than two, some things gotta happen.

1) You must meet and marry your spouse early in life, and consequently have children early on. Many people who put off, or don't try to find relationship in schooling days, end up working first, then too busy, ultimately having to rely on dating services or apps at 30+ years ... that's too late in life.

2) If you have (1), then you have the luxury of time to space out your kids, thus the workload and cost is not too overwhelming. Have additional kids as your career grows and you pull in more income. Or one kid graduates and goes to work first, alleviating the cost of the siblings, hopefully, if you  brought them up with the right values.

The trend of putting off marriage and kids, and prioritizing career seems to be an asian thing? I read recently that PRC is also facing shortfall of babies born - about half a million thereabouts reduction? After scrapping the one-child policy, horrors, they found out that nowadays young people actually prefer no children! 

 

[Vratenza]

30 minutes ago, Enye said:

i have 3 kids... on a single income 

life is tough indeed i have to admit but my main concern is .... with companies going for ft who already have the skills and experience instead of training and grooming up the young ones, what future would they have under such circumstances?

😓😖

I don't even want my kid to finish his education here. Will send him off to UK/US for his degree so that he can find jobs outside of Singapore. Fight as FT in other countries. Why come back to fight the losing battle with the FTs on home ground?

[Wind30]

7 hours ago, Vratenza said:

I don't even want my kid to finish his education here. Will send him off to UK/US for his degree so that he can find jobs outside of Singapore. Fight as FT in other countries. Why come back to fight the losing battle with the FTs on home ground?

Why losing battle? Unless the hiring manager is racially biased. I can tell u most companies will want to hire locals. Why would they not with all the policies in place now? I am on the ground hiring and there are a lot of incentives for me to hire locals.... 

but the main problem is our government lump pr as local in some or most of their policies... so maybe the effect is diluted... 

At the end of the day, people have one or zero kids while complaining about increasing number of ft.... it’s kind of ridiculous...

I really think if locals can give birth more, we will have much less ft. Many years ago we have tough policies against singles like hdb ownership but now all changed because people complain....

lky take on it

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/money-wont-solve-low-birth-rate-problem-mr-lee

Edited January 19, 2020 by Wind30

[Victor68]

9 hours ago, Playtime said:

Perhaps they are all similar to Singapore in being rat race.

 

Sweden and some of its neighbor has some very good social safety net and pro family policies. No? That's the difference

More likely because we have been told time and again we got the best leaders who are paid the highest in the world. So Ny country you picked,  we are better lah.

[Gizmore]

On 1/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, Wind30 said:

Exactly! Actually your post supports exactly ccs argument.....

the specific data, the division of new jobs between ft and locals actually does not tell how much the lives locals has improved or gotten worse. As I mentioned multiple times, the relevant data for that is local specific employment, salary data plus cost of living. 
To me, the main thing this specific Set of data does is to fan envy and sway votes like you mention...

 

 

You see it as a political game but I don't. 

The numbers reflects the effects of the policies by Ministers of this country. It may not affected me directly but surely in indirect ways.

I may not be scholar to understand why the numbers needed to considered this way, then it is the duty of the Minister to convince me. Some of the Minister are doing a great job. Some are just piss poor. Pls don't tell me because I won't be able to understand and hence you don't need to know. It is the duty of Ministers to convince each and every Singaporean. 

Singapore does not need elitism culture. If Minister is going to "nah, it's like that one, take it", then we don't need high paying scholar for the job. Any Tom Dick would do. 

[Piyopico]

If by hiring one foreigner a local benefits albeit not at the expense of another then so be it. Benefits can be hdb rental, cheaper food, 24 hours services , unwanted jobs getting done etc...... there are many ways to look at how we benefit. It is not a zero sum game. As long as people cannot accept this fact then ya..... its always a local suffered cos a foreigner was allowed to come in...... 

[Ash2017]

21 hours ago, yishunite said:

I alrdy got kids. Im not the problem. Problem is our society as a whole cant reproduce itself atm

My previous colleague ban chewing gum over night to solve a tiny problem.

 

Why don't we just ban condom?

Any objections?

 

Tianmo's comments no count because his all commando trained.

[Ash2017]

19 hours ago, Wind30 said:

how many kids u have? I think the problem lies in those family with kids... like mine. I think most Singaporeans want to have kids but not many. I wanted to have only one but end with with 2. Theoretically I think each family needs to have three... cuz there are people who can’t find spouse, gays, cannot have children etc. These people sometimes has no choice in not having kids.

But it’s hard to convince family to have more than 2 I think. 

After I witness the oxley road saga I turned myself in for vasectomy.

 

Shockingly I turned around while at the queue I saw Radx Tianmo including staff 69

 

[Ash2017]

17 hours ago, Vratenza said:

I don't even want my kid to finish his education here. Will send him off to UK/US for his degree so that he can find jobs outside of Singapore. Fight as FT in other countries. Why come back to fight the losing battle with the FTs on home ground?

Hi dad

[Ash2017]

10 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Why losing battle? Unless the hiring manager is racially biased. I can tell u most companies will want to hire locals. Why would they not with all the policies in place now? I am on the ground hiring and there are a lot of incentives for me to hire locals.... 

but the main problem is our government lump pr as local in some or most of their policies... so maybe the effect is diluted... 

At the end of the day, people have one or zero kids while complaining about increasing number of ft.... it’s kind of ridiculous...

I really think if locals can give birth more, we will have much less ft. Many years ago we have tough policies against singles like hdb ownership but now all changed because people complain....

lky take on it

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/money-wont-solve-low-birth-rate-problem-mr-lee

To have more in the family 

Means

 

1 night of pleasure 9months of pain

Healthcare cheap or reasonable meh

Fighting for schools needing to volunteer at grassroots at CC

Even middle class cannot afford to have more kids

No work life balance

Working towards at least 500k salary otherwise government see me no up

NS and reservist obligations

Among other things it all started with stop at 2