Jump to content

Sdp pofma case


Wind30
 Share

Recommended Posts

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pofma-challenge-sdp-mom-pmet-agc-judge-verdict-court-12273078
 

I think this specific case require a separate thread as I really think sdp case is strong. This should be a landmark court case that every singaporean who values freedom of speech should follow.

mom is arguing as Long as they can prove one interpretation of your post is false, they can shut you up. I don’t want to live in North Korea. I hope the judge clarifies the law. If the law is so over reaching, I know exactly who to vote for.

 

ps, I not sdp supporter. I think 90% of their suggested policies on their websites are populist destructive policies.

Edited by Wind30
↡ Advertisement
  • Praise 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pofma-challenge-sdp-mom-pmet-agc-judge-verdict-court-12273078
 

I think this specific case require a separate thread as I really think sdp case is strong. This should be a landmark court case that every singaporean who values freedom of speech should follow.

mom is arguing as Long as they can prove one interpretation of your post is false, they can shut you up. I don’t want to live in North Korea. I hope the judge clarifies the law. If the law is so over reaching, I know exactly who to vote for.

 

ps, I not sdp supporter. I think 90% of their suggested policies on their websites are populist destructive policies.

You should recuse yourself from this thread.

 

Pofma can also apply to you as to where is your facts that 90% of their suggested policies are destructive.

 

Singapore currently is heading......

Our neighbors are catching up fast and furious

We have key individuals who are crafting policies who had not worked a day in this private sector that includes me. Have you seen me giving Ron Sim on how to do business. He got so pissed he listed his Singapore company in Hong Kong

Our oversize military spending is it sustainable

Why encourage citizens to seek cheap medical treatment and old folks home in neighboring country. This is gratitude for our forefathers

 

I have invested in a few fishing rods already just in case we turned into a fishing village.

 

Despite all these remember without your constant support my colleague s and I cannot maintain our lifestyle. I will remember you and keep a side a packet of Bryan for you. You want chicken or lamb. Special just for you.

 

 

 

 

  • Praise 2
  • Haha! 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Wind30 said:

mom is arguing as Long as they can prove one interpretation of your post is false, they can shut you up. I don’t want to live in North Korea. I hope the judge clarifies the law. If the law is so over reaching, I know exactly who to vote for.

That interpretation seems to be confirmed in today's ST.. it's basically up to minister to decide what the "interpretation" is.

The number of pap politicians that should be pofmaed but never is,  will make a mockery of our law... the implications are huge. 

 

What was done to our presidency,  will be done to our judicial justice?

 

I waite to see how it will be used in the coming election,  perhaps all opposition really must start with :"we give thanks to our lord and saviour the pap, to whom no fault is present...amen"

Edited by Playtime
Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)
15 minutes ago, Playtime said:

That interpretation seems to be confirmed in today's ST.. it's basically up to minister to decide what the "interpretation" is.

The number of pap politicians that should be pofmaed but never is,  will make a mockery of our law... the implications are huge. 

 

What was done to our presidency,  will be done to our judicial justice?

 

I waite to see how it will be used in the coming election,  perhaps all opposition really must start with :"we give thanks to our lord and saviour the pap, to whom no fault is present...amen"

That is not what I remember Shanmugam said previously. I really hope the judge will rule against mom.

 

1 hour ago, Ash2017 said:

You should recuse yourself from this thread.

 

Pofma can also apply to you as to where is your facts that 90% of their suggested policies are destructive..

 

Pofma does not cover opinion... my statement is obviously an opinion. 

Edited by Wind30
  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

And this particular case have shown us the need for data, not in the form of statistics (which could be manipulated), but hard and cold absolute figures. 

I mentioned this when POFMA was tabled in the parliament that if the party suing someone for providing misinformation, while they themselves are withholding the data needed, then POFMA is simply a political tool to silence the general public and opposition parties.

Remember the TT Durai saga with NKF?!

  • Praise 12
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Carbon82 said:

And this particular case have shown us the need for data, not in the form of statistics (which could be manipulated), but hard and cold absolute figures. 

I mentioned this when POFMA was tabled in the parliament that if the party suing someone for providing false data, while they themselves are withholding the data (be it true of false), then POFMA is simply a political tool to silence the general public and opposition parties.

Remember the TT Durai saga with NKF?!

You don't trust our AG and his team ah?

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/politics/court-hears-sdps-appeal-against-pofma

Deputy Attorney-General Hri Kumar Nair said yesterday that Parliament had promised a "swift procedure" for Pofma challenges in the High Court, but when it comes to the hearing, "it depends on the complexity of the case".

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

Pofma does not cover opinion... my statement is obviously an opinion. 

It's not for you to decide.. minister will tell you when which is which. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

That is not what I remember Shanmugam said previously. I really hope the judge will rule against mom.

 

Pofma does not cover opinion... my statement is obviously an opinion. 

When you gave a quantitaive figure of 90% , in this case, it no longer becomes an opinion because it suggested you analysed from a set of data.

 

This situation is the same as the current POFMAD. you being like in sdp shoes while I am in the ministry shoes

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember once after the Malaysia election, mahathar go and remove fake news law in Malaysia? Think we really need to have 360 degrees change in leadership and hope the new leadership to do the right thing to remove pofma. If there is nothing to hide, just show figures, no need use pofma to silence people. 

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Remember once after the Malaysia election, mahathar go and remove fake news law in Malaysia? Think we really need to have 360 degrees change in leadership and hope the new leadership to do the right thing to remove pofma. If there is nothing to hide, just show figures, no need use pofma to silence people. 

I suspect he also thinking 

1) now he in power, he can deal with it.

2) once he hands over power, or UMNO comes back, he will suffer from it.

 

he probably thinking no 2.

but still good for the people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Remember once after the Malaysia election, mahathar go and remove fake news law in Malaysia? Think we really need to have 360 degrees change in leadership and hope the new leadership to do the right thing to remove pofma. If there is nothing to hide, just show figures, no need use pofma to silence people. 

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2019/12/19/finally-dewan-negara-approves-repeal-of-anti-fake-news-act

Scraped almost 1 month liao

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

can POFMA him or not?

saying that our million dollar civil service is that useless ah? no pap cannot ah.

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/pm-lee-public-service-dinner-civil-political-leadership-12275234

SINGAPORE: Singapore’s success depends on the public service working hand in hand with a first-class political leadership, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said on Friday (Jan 17).

Some people argue that having a capable civil service to keep things working means that Singaporeans do not need to be so stringent in their expectations of the nation's political leaders, he said.

They think that the country can survive a bad election or a bad government, because the civil service is there, Mr Lee said.

"I believe this is totally misguided. Leadership does matter, and political leaders play a specific, vital role in ... our system of government," he said to senior civil servants gathered at the annual public service leadership dinner.

He detailed the important role that ministers play: They have to win the people’s mandate, sense the public mood and set the strategic direction of the country, Mr Lee said. They also need to persuade the public on this direction, and on the policies to get there, including unpopular ones.

Policies always exist within a political context and do not happen in a vacuum, he noted.

"Ministers are responsible for getting the politics right, just as the civil service is primarily responsible for policy," he said at the event held at Shangri-La Hotel.

Mr Lee's speech comes before an impending general election. Singapore is due to hold an election by April 2021 but polls are expected to be called this year.

WITHOUT POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, COUNTRY WILL BE ON “AUTOPILOT”

If the country’s politics is divided and fractious, or if political leaders are well-meaning but mediocre, a competent civil service may be able to keep the country going on autopilot, but only for a time, he said.

"The civil service, under these circumstances, cannot launch major policy initiatives, set new directions, or mobilise the population to mount a national response to major challenges," Mr Lee said.

He gave the example of the United States, where urgent actions that everyone agrees are necessary, like upgrading the country’s ageing infrastructure, cannot be taken because of deep political divisions.

"In Singapore, the public service has been effective precisely because we have the political climate and political leaders who support and enable the public service to operate in a rational, efficient and systematic way,” he said.

Singapore has the luxury of looking beyond the short term, identifying future opportunities and solving longer-term problems like climate change, with the full confidence that it can fund and carry out the plans.

Giving further examples, Mr Lee said that Singapore can sustain organisations like Temasek Holdings and state investment fund GIC, which are insulated from political pressure and bureaucratic interference, because the country has, among other things, “the political will to do things the right way and see things through”.

This has helped Singapore build up its reserves, he said.

"It is an arrangement unique to Singapore; it puzzles others studying us,” he said. "Eventually they may understand how we make it work, but they will have great difficulty doing the same in a different political environment.”

QUALITY OF MINISTERS ENSURES THAT PUBLIC SERVICE FUNCTIONS WELL

While public service leaders must understand the political context, ministers on their part must master their ministries, and the policies they are accountable for, Mr Lee said.

He detailed how they should do so: They must have their hearts in the right place, with a passion to serve and a concern for the welfare of the people.

On top of providing strategic guidance, they are expected to be hands-on, and intimately involved in developing policies.

This applies to not just the specific minister in charge of his own ministry, but the whole Cabinet, when it comes to major policy decisions, he said.

"This is how we have done it, whether it is upgrading train reliability, designing medical services for the elderly, building up digital government and a Smart Nation, or managing sensitive foreign relations,” he said.

Even if ministers are diligent and well-intentioned, if they are not quite up to the mark or unable to play their roles properly, the public service cannot function well, he said.

Decisions will be delayed or fudged, wrong decisions will be taken or officers will be unable to get things done, he said.

He added that maintaining an outstanding public service will itself be in jeopardy, as enterprising and idealistic officers will become frustrated and disillusioned.

"The quality of governance will go down, and it will take years to recover, if that is at all possible."

SINGAPORE MUST "CONTINUE TO GET CAPABLE, COMMITTED PEOPLE INTO POLITICS"

The system has worked "quite well so far", he noted.

"We must continue to get capable, committed people to enter politics, to hold political appointments, to maintain the quality of ministers - the political leadership - to be up to their responsibilities to lead and to work with the public service," he said.

Even as Singapore goes through a transition of political leadership in the next few years, the fundamental alignment, close working relationship, and mutual trust between ministers and civil servants cannot change, Mr Lee said, as he spoke about the 4G leadership.

The 4G leaders will work in a different style, leading younger Singaporeans who want the Government to deliver policies with them, not just for them, he said.

The 4G leaders are working on the SGTogether movement, to create policies with Singaporeans, and the public service is supporting this effort, Mr Lee added.

He is confident that the 4G political leaders and the public service leadership, particularly at senior levels, share the same fundamental values, he said.

These include meritocracy, clean government, multi-racialism, inclusive development and economic growth. They also include the conviction that an outstanding government is a vital differentiator for Singapore and that Singapore has to be exceptional to thrive, he said.

"I hope these values will be endure beyond the next political generation, and continue to be upheld by successive generations of political leaders in Singapore," he said.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1 minute ago, Playtime said:

I suspect he also thinking 

1) now he in power, he can deal with it.

2) once he hands over power, or UMNO comes back, he will suffer from it.

 

he probably thinking no 2.

but still good for the people.

He already super old.. dont think he think in no2. Coz by then he might be 96 years old and above.. with such old age.. live or die really does not matter much already.

I think he knew how much damage the fake law can do.. aka ministers can misuse this fake news law to silence people. This is not a good thing. 

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

 

He already super old.. dont think he think in no2. Coz by then he might be 96 years old and above.. with such old age.. live or die really does not matter much already.

I think he knew how much damage the fake law can do.. aka ministers can misuse this fake news law to silence people. This is not a good thing. 

Perhaps at the end of life... some do realise that you cannot take it to the grave.. come out to play, eventually must return .

  • Haha! 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember all the wayang during the public hearings abt how opinion wont be criminalize only facts are? First case in court and they alrdy throw all that out the window 

  • Praise 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, yishunite said:

Remember all the wayang during the public hearings abt how opinion wont be criminalize only facts are? First case in court and they alrdy throw all that out the window 

Slowly chip ah chip.. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...