2020 Sad to say tampered mileage cars still exist

[Lotr]

2 hours ago, Goldenvodka said:

Few years back I have an interesting encounter.

Vehicle ODO meter was showing about 75k however upon checking around the car I found the latest servicing documents from Kocomo. It shows 120k and it is dated 2 3 years back.

Hence I guess the real millage is about 200k.

Was a lucky man that time. That stage I was about to sign on the papers.

Immediately the dealer appogised and shove me off the showroom.

 

Probably this is why when I view some cars the service records are not available

[Rickster]

That's y I always advocate when want to buy used car, only buy those still under AD warranty AND serviced by them. 

You can easily call the AD and check what is the last mileage done and when was it last serviced (and also the past few services interval). If you want to know more about accident history, there is no way they will reveal it to you due to privacy of customer. Some ADs are a little more flexible, they will tell you if a major repair has been done on the vehicle or not.

If the previous owner/dealer has gotten the number plate changed, you can try it with the chassis no/VIN no.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rickster

[Rickster]

3 hours ago, Goldenvodka said:

Few years back I have an interesting encounter.

Vehicle ODO meter was showing about 75k however upon checking around the car I found the latest servicing documents from Kocomo. It shows 120k and it is dated 2 3 years back.

Hence I guess the real millage is about 200k.

Was a lucky man that time. That stage I was about to sign on the papers.

Immediately the dealer appogised and shove me off the showroom.

 

Never ever believe the odometer of a used car at the dealers. I would have given Komoco a call and validated with them the last few servicing mileage and interval.

Again, best to buy those car still under warranty and services by the AD.

[Vinceng]

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

That's y I always advocate when want to buy used car, only buy those still under AD warranty AND serviced by them. 

You can easily call the AD and check what is the last mileage done and when was it last serviced (and also the past few services interval). If you want to know more about accident history, there is no way they will reveal it to you due to privacy of customer. Some ADs are a little more flexible, they will tell you if a major repair has been done on the vehicle or not.

If the previous owner/dealer has gotten the number plate changed, you can try it with the chassis no/VIN no.

It's of no use to verify the mileage with the AD.

Another trick used by dealers in tempering the mileage.

A 7 yr old car is put up for sale

Serviced for the first 3 yrs at agent, with mileage at 45,000 in 3rd year (average 15,000km/yr).

Gets sold to a 2nd owner who is in sales and drives a lot or even used for Private Hire. By the 7 year, mileage is 200,000km and serviced at outside workshops.

Dealer will adjust mileage to 90,000km and send to agent to service. And declare in the ad that it is agent maintained with "genuine" 90,000km mileage.

I know because my car dealer friend does that and it's an industry norm.

[RogerNg_185295]

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

Never ever believe the odometer of a used car at the dealers. I would have given Komoco a call and validated with them the last few servicing mileage and interval.

Again, best to buy those car still under warranty and services by the AD.

No use one. Why? Seller can pay to a dealer to adjust the mileage before trading in to AD. This industry is not as simple as you think. 

[1fast1]

2 hours ago, Lotr said:

Probably this is why when I view some cars the service records are not available

I sold my AMG GT to a dealer when I was buying my Mac. 

Provided him full service records from Cycle. Painstakingly correction fluid-ed all my personal details out so he can pass it to the next buyer.

Car was sold for less than 20k km at less than 2 years age. 

Car was listed with odo still rolled back. Bet you the service records were "conveniently lost".

[1fast1]

35 minutes ago, Vinceng said:

It's of no use to verify the mileage with the AD.

Another trick used by dealers in tempering the mileage.

A 7 yr old car is put up for sale

Serviced for the first 3 yrs at agent, with mileage at 45,000 in 3rd year (average 15,000km/yr).

Gets sold to a 2nd owner who is in sales and drives a lot or even used for Private Hire. By the 7 year, mileage is 200,000km and serviced at outside workshops.

Dealer will adjust mileage to 90,000km and send to agent to service. And declare in the ad that it is agent maintained with "genuine" 90,000km mileage.

I know because my car dealer friend does that and it's an industry norm.

This sort of thing is not even limited to used car salesmen.

I know a dealer who clocks odos.

He tells me of Ferrari owners who've gone to him between servicings at Ital to roll back their odos to maintain value. Perfect low mileage record at the AD and with an exotic, people will believe it.

So it's not just dealers who're scummy. 

Basically, don't believe the odo in Singapore. It's really that simple. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Turboflat4

[Goldenvodka]

perhaps buy a 1 owner cars from dealers like republic auto or those agent based used division. I don't think they will risk their reputation to adjust the ODO just to make more profit.

If I am not wrong both Audi and VW have their own used car division

[Rickster]

34 minutes ago, Vinceng said:

It's of no use to verify the mileage with the AD.

Another trick used by dealers in tempering the mileage.

A 7 yr old car is put up for sale

Serviced for the first 3 yrs at agent, with mileage at 45,000 in 3rd year (average 15,000km/yr).

Gets sold to a 2nd owner who is in sales and drives a lot or even used for Private Hire. By the 7 year, mileage is 200,000km and serviced at outside workshops.

Dealer will adjust mileage to 90,000km and send to agent to service. And declare in the ad that it is agent maintained with "genuine" 90,000km mileage.

I know because my car dealer friend does that and it's an industry norm. 

Eh bro...read my post carefully leh. I say only buy cars that are under warranty AND serviced at AD. That means cars that are usually less than 3 yr old. Not a 7 year old car..

Firstly, if a car is a 7 year old... it's no longer under warranty. When you call in to check mileage, there is a 3 year gap between servicing, that means servicing interval is skipped. Its a big red flag and a no go.

[1fast1]

3 minutes ago, Goldenvodka said:

perhaps buy a 1 owner cars from dealers like republic auto or those agent based used division. I don't think they will risk their reputation to adjust the ODO just to make more profit.

If I am not wrong both Audi and VW have their own used car division

Many years ago when I bought my Kia brand new from Cycle, it was delivered to me with practically zero km. Definitely less than ten. 

That's not even possible without having had the odo rolled back by the salesman. You know how many km are incurred to do the PDI etc.?

This was at a major AD by a salesman in good standing employed there. You think they'll really police their own used car division? 😂😂😂

Edited January 30, 2020 by Turboflat4

[RogerNg_185295]

6 minutes ago, Turboflat4 said:

This sort of thing is not even limited to used car salesmen.

I know a dealer who clocks odos.

He tells me of Ferrari owners who've gone to him between servicings at Ital to roll back their odos to maintain value. Perfect low mileage record at the AD and with an exotic, people will believe it.

So it's not just dealers who're scummy. 

Basically, don't believe the odo in Singapore. It's really that simple. 

Thats why I say this industry is not so simple.  Even the clever buyers will still be carroted. 

[RogerNg_185295]

24 minutes ago, Rickster said:

Eh bro...read my post carefully leh. I say only buy cars that are under warranty AND serviced at AD. That means cars that are usually less than 3 yr old. Not a 7 year old car..

Firstly, if a car is a 7 year old... it's no longer under warranty. When you call in to check mileage, there is a 3 year gap between servicing, that means servicing interval is skipped. Its a big red flag and a no go.

I think you are a bit lack knowledge 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by RogerNg_185295

[Rickster]

21 minutes ago, RogerNg_185295 said:

No use one. Why? Seller can pay to a dealer to adjust the mileage before trading in to AD. This industry is not as simple as you think. 

Have u ever tried to call into an AD and asked these 3 simple questions?

1) Is the car servicing regular? 

2) What is the last servicing date and mileage?

3) Is the car's warranty still honoured according to your records?

4) Any major repairs done on the car? (this one depending on which AD. Some will tell you, some will not).

By the last service interval, you will be able to tell if the dealer got purposely send the car in for servicing or not (and if he has tweaked the mileage).

[Rickster]

1 minute ago, RogerNg_185295 said:

Thats why I say this industry is not so simple.  Even the clever buyers will still be carroted. 

We all take a certain amount of risks. Smart people will know how to take calculated risks.

[Rickster]

5 minutes ago, RogerNg_185295 said:

I think you are a bit naive . 

 

So mr smart and experienced guy, why? Please enlighten me. No need to resort to personal attacks, I'm sharing information for the benefit of the other forumners.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rickster

[Rickster]

23 minutes ago, Turboflat4 said:

This sort of thing is not even limited to used car salesmen.

I know a dealer who clocks odos.

He tells me of Ferrari owners who've gone to him between servicings at Ital to roll back their odos to maintain value. Perfect low mileage record at the AD and with an exotic, people will believe it.

So it's not just dealers who're scummy.  

Basically, don't believe the odo in Singapore. It's really that simple. 

This makes sense for exotic cars with significant value.

But less so for a typical B&B owner who pays money to roll back the odo in between each servicing and then just so he can trade in to the dealer who still takes it in at paper value + a few K regardless his car is 30K or 60K on the odo. 

Wonder y the Ferrari owner don't buy the equipment and software to do it himself. My car diagnostics equipment and software can also adjust the ODO.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rickster

[RogerNg_185295]

16 minutes ago, Rickster said:

So mr smart and experienced guy, why? Please enlighten me. No need to resort to personal attacks, I'm sharing information for the benefit of the other forumners.

Edited.  Should be lack of knowledge. 

[tarbo]

On 1/22/2020 at 11:19 AM, Roh96 said:

Want to buy used car, be prepared to accept the risk. No choice.

This happened to my family as well. Bought a used Audi, everything looked sui sui, paintwork, interior, low mileage etc..you name. Upon sending in for first servicing, was told by the mechanic that the ODO has been tempered. I don't know how, but he could see from his computer when he plucked in to read the data. What to do? Just have to accept it lah, mostly imptly the car is not giving any major problems consider happy liao.

VW group cars are able to display ECU mileage calculated from speed etc via vagcom. Even if the odo hasn't been tampered, it will still differ by a bit, like 100km difference. But 100,000km is quite a clear cut indication of tampering.