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salary during manpower reduction


Ysc3
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19 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

It must be a give and take. Last time when I am on leave I will travel.  One reason is that if i am in singapore, people will call and ask for this and that 

So if bosses want workers to clear their leave they must also make sure they dont ask the workers to do work when on leave (since they cant go anywhere).

Additionally no employee wants to waste the annual leave when they cannot do anything or go anywhere.  You can call it selfish but one consideration is how was the company towards the worker in better times.  

In one company that I worked before, when I resigned I encashed almost an entire year's worth of annual leave.  In my exit interview I complain I couldn't take leave.  The manager said not true.  You could have taken alternate friday half day off (not the whole day off because of meetings), and you can clear your entitlement quickly.  Then I said half day off, by the time I can go off it's only a little bit.  Then the manager said that's not the point.  The point is you complain you couldn't take leave but you actually could.

Yea I left.

My two cents.

In a way, he is not wrong.  On the other hand, it is also bad resource planning from your direct boss.

When i need to clear leave, it is either Monday or Friday.  I plan this days ahead for my boss to manage workload.

When i become the boss, i start to nag my team to clear leave from July 1st.

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9 minutes ago, Ysc3 said:

Tell me about it... My wife still got SMS from the school Principal at 11:45 pm!! 

yaloh.. now longer working hours.. on call whenever whatever time..

should be rename to SFH.. Slave From Home

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Turbocharged

beginning of this week, companies already asked to submit a trimmed down name list of people working in office.

I don't think you can rotate as that would mean you need to submit double the headcount.

If you think about from the Covid point of view, it is not logical to do rotation. I think they mentioned most of the community cases involves people who are still working which make sense as they have far far more contact.

If you rotate, you exposing twice the number of people to maybe 50% of the risk. It might sound like an even trade but remember once that person Kenna, his/her household is also exposed. And also if a work cluster develops and you are rotating on a short term basis, you can get cross infection across double the people. 

It make sense to just stop rotation and function with the bare minimum. 

 

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Turbocharged
4 hours ago, Ody_2004 said:

they don understand.. when company asked to clear leave they may be foreseeing that the coming months may be tough.. no pay leave maybe next on the card..

With all selfish people holding back/hoarding their leave and when such times come.. company will drag their finance as people will need to clear their leave before no pay leave can kick in on the individual.. any delay will affect cash flow...

 

 

When I was working at corporate, I make it very easy. If I have annual leave balance  which cannot be carried forward (usually quite a lot left), I will just tell HR to forfeit it.

Done on the leaves and let's focus back on the job.

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28 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

beginning of this week, companies already asked to submit a trimmed down name list of people working in office.

I don't think you can rotate as that would mean you need to submit double the headcount.

If you think about from the Covid point of view, it is not logical to do rotation. I think they mentioned most of the community cases involves people who are still working which make sense as they have far far more contact.

If you rotate, you exposing twice the number of people to maybe 50% of the risk. It might sound like an even trade but remember once that person Kenna, his/her household is also exposed. And also if a work cluster develops and you are rotating on a short term basis, you can get cross infection across double the people. 

It make sense to just stop rotation and function with the bare minimum. 

 

Say you have 1600 units of work a day and 20 staff to complete it, each staff's contribution is 80 units per 8-hr day, or 10 units/hr output. 

Now assume MTI has limit this to 10 staff day. If you run operations for 8 hours with 10 staff, you get 800 units, which for 50% output. You increase this to 12 hours per day, you get 1200 units, which is at 75% of daily required output. That's not too bad. Then you find out some processes which efficiencies you can immediately improve (surprisingly many ideas come out during this time), you gain 5-10% more output and get about 80% of the required 100%.

Next, you want to keep everyone on the payroll as a morally correct boss, you let them rotate 12-hr shifts on alternate days. So you go from 5.5 days work week to 7 days work week. This is ok as you meet MOM's weekly average of 44-48 hours limit. 

On the Covid-19 front, there will be policies and many measures in place like Safe Distancing + mask up at work place. Also your Team A will not meet with Team B. In the event of an infection,  BCP is activated. You sanitize the workplace and continue with the other Team (with output dropping further). Good thing is, the company continue to run and everyone is still the payroll...then JSS comes in to support.

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Turbocharged

Trust me, I know it’s a huge problem deciding who stays and who go home.

there is a big problem with your alternate rotation scheme.

lets say u Super on, your team a never see team b. But I assume your team don’t work in isolation. They have vendors, customers, or whoever they deal with regularly. I call that team c. 
if one guy in team c get the virus, he is going to spread to both team a and b. 
how much can you ring fence your teams? It’s impossible to me to isolate your team completely. asking twice the number of people to leave their home to work on alternate days just does not make sense to me in terms of fighting the spread. 
I am pretty sure it is illegal in the eyes of the government now as they are asking for bare minimum headcount with names to be submitted. 
a much safer arrangement is alternate two weeks work, two weeks stay at home. Not sure if government will agree or not...

Edited by Wind30
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33 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

Trust me, I know it’s a huge problem deciding who stays and who go home.

there is a big problem with your alternate rotation scheme.

lets say u Super on, your team a never see team b. But I assume your team don’t work in isolation. They have vendors, customers, or whoever they deal with regularly. I call that team c. 
if one guy in team c get the virus, he is going to spread to both team a and b. 
how much can you ring fence your teams? It’s impossible to me to isolate your team completely. asking twice the number of people to leave their home to work on alternate days just does not make sense to me in terms of fighting the spread. 
I am pretty sure it is illegal in the eyes of the government now as they are asking for bare minimum headcount with names to be submitted. 
a much safer arrangement is alternate two weeks work, two weeks stay at home. Not sure if government will agree or not...

No vendors, customers allowed on site. Say a driver make deliveries to Location A and make contact with an infected person, this staff and his entire Team is then place on 14-day LOA. You sanitize the workplace, you continue with the other Team.

How is the weekly exposure count of rotating alternate days be more than sending 20 staff daily to work for 6 (>5.5) days? Current exposure count is 120 (20 staff x 6). Rotating alternate days, you have exposure count of 70 (10 staff x 7). The number of days they are spending at home is a lot more now.

Prior to ECB = 1 day at home per week for all 20 Ops staff

ECB, Team X = 3 days at home per week for 10 Ops staff

ECB, Team Y = 4 days at home per week for 10 Ops staff

FYI, we are granted 10% of total company headcount to operate on and off premise (customers' site) after ECB. The rest WFH.

 

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Turbocharged
44 minutes ago, Naimed said:

No vendors, customers allowed on site. Say a driver make deliveries to Location A and make contact with an infected person, this staff and his entire Team is then place on 14-day LOA. You sanitize the workplace, you continue with the other Team.

How is the weekly exposure count of rotating alternate days be more than sending 20 staff daily to work for 6 (>5.5) days? Current exposure count is 120 (20 staff x 6). Rotating alternate days, you have exposure count of 70 (10 staff x 7). The number of days they are spending at home is a lot more now.

Prior to ECB = 1 day at home per week for all 20 Ops staff

ECB, Team X = 3 days at home per week for 10 Ops staff

ECB, Team Y = 4 days at home per week for 10 Ops staff

FYI, we are granted 10% of total company headcount to operate on and off premise (customers' site) after ECB. The rest WFH.

 

.... you are assuming u know that guy is infected immediately... in real life, if u alternate daily, both team x and team y will have made deliveries to that location a and have contact with infected before u even know there is contact. U have to shut down both teams.

if u can function with 10 staff daily, it is good to keep the same staff daily and only swap infrequently, probably longer than 2 weeks per cycle. Even if u swap infrequently, depending on when the case is discovered, you might also need to shut both teams.
 

honestly, best is follow government guidelines and live with the bare minimum. Don’t try to Be creative. Sone permanently stay at home. If unlucky your team Kenna, u still have a clean backup team.

 

Edited by Wind30
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Supercharged

Anyway back to salary portion. If govt find out that staff on unpaid leave for this period or reduced pay or sacked. Theres a likehood the jss might be reduced or cut.

 

Take note.

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Turbocharged
17 minutes ago, Spurman said:

Anyway back to salary portion. If govt find out that staff on unpaid leave for this period or reduced pay or sacked. Theres a likehood the jss might be reduced or cut.

 

Take note.


If the staff has higher pay than 4600, jss might not help. One month companies can absorb, two months most companies will implement some cost control if the workers cannot work from home and their pay is high.

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Turbocharged

I find it more practical to let everyone wfh and come to office only when need to. Say 2-3 hr chop chop do what you need, then go home. Majority of the time, stay home. This reduces exposure risk a lot.

Mine not in essential work employer but some thing still need go office and do, cannot cart it back home. Now all these work push till ccb ends

Edited by Sosaria
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3 hours ago, Spurman said:

Anyway back to salary portion. If govt find out that staff on unpaid leave for this period or reduced pay or sacked. Theres a likehood the jss might be reduced or cut.

 

Take note.

I think gov will just pay 75% of whatever salary the company is paying for the month, so if they get 10days unpaid leave, they will only be reimburse 75% of the paid 20days. 

Unless company want to play punk and pay full salary and take pay cut from other non reimburse month. But in this case, employee can easily grab HR by the balls when they threaten to complain to MOM since that's cheating gov. 

Anyway, end of the day, it's up to each company's discretion to manage the employees' task and salary during CB times. The gov only can entice employers to continue paying them if possible, they can't force them to retain the employees. 

Edited by GLZT
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9 hours ago, GLZT said:

I think gov will just pay 75% of whatever salary the company is paying for the month, so if they get 10days unpaid leave, they will only be reimburse 75% of the paid 20days. 

Unless company want to play punk and pay full salary and take pay cut from other non reimburse month. But in this case, employee can easily grab HR by the balls when they threaten to complain to MOM since that's cheating gov. 

Anyway, end of the day, it's up to each company's discretion to manage the employees' task and salary during CB times. The gov only can entice employers to continue paying them if possible, they can't force them to retain the employees. 

JSS payout in April is based on wages lodged in Oct-Dec 2019 (Employee A still on current payroll). When company decides to put Employee A on NPL for Apr and May, company might not get any JSS in the July payout. Some info available on IRAS website.

Advised by the ministries, company should only have pay cut, NPL, retrenchments as last resort. Some companies are already not financially strong prior to Covid-19 and when this pandemic hits them, it just exacerbated the woes they facing. If there is no sales/output/π during this period, it basically means the companies are forking out money from their cash reserves to fund the salary payouts, property rentals, running costs...etc. If company is in the red from 201x-2019, they will probably sink very soon.

JSS is a lifeline measure to keep most employees on the payroll, especially for SME. I know a 8-man team (including boss) company not exempted and cannot operate during CB/ECB. The staff are counting down their time to receive bad news. With JSS, I think the company can last another 4-6 months without generating profits. 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Ody_2004 said:

they don understand.. when company asked to clear leave they may be foreseeing that the coming months may be tough.. no pay leave maybe next on the card..

With all selfish people holding back/hoarding their leave and when such times come.. company will drag their finance as people will need to clear their leave before no pay leave can kick in on the individual.. any delay will affect cash flow...

 

can't really say employees are selfish. because majority of employers are as well. so it is a working relationship that needs balancing. afterall, everyone put self-interest before others. 

 

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14 hours ago, Wind30 said:

.... you are assuming u know that guy is infected immediately... in real life, if u alternate daily, both team x and team y will have made deliveries to that location a and have contact with infected before u even know there is contact. U have to shut down both teams.

if u can function with 10 staff daily, it is good to keep the same staff daily and only swap infrequently, probably longer than 2 weeks per cycle. Even if u swap infrequently, depending on when the case is discovered, you might also need to shut both teams.
 

honestly, best is follow government guidelines and live with the bare minimum. Don’t try to Be creative. Sone permanently stay at home. If unlucky your team Kenna, u still have a clean backup team.

 

Hmmm i am wondering....

Can they not use your Silicon Valley Office preventive methods and measures and everything will be fine? 

😁

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17 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Trust me, I know it’s a huge problem deciding who stays and who go home.

there is a big problem with your alternate rotation scheme.

lets say u Super on, your team a never see team b. But I assume your team don’t work in isolation. They have vendors, customers, or whoever they deal with regularly. I call that team c. 
if one guy in team c get the virus, he is going to spread to both team a and b. 
how much can you ring fence your teams? It’s impossible to me to isolate your team completely. asking twice the number of people to leave their home to work on alternate days just does not make sense to me in terms of fighting the spread. 
I am pretty sure it is illegal in the eyes of the government now as they are asking for bare minimum headcount with names to be submitted. 
a much safer arrangement is alternate two weeks work, two weeks stay at home. Not sure if government will agree or not...

divide your customers into Teams A and B as well ?

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Supercharged

Anyway, as bosses, owners of the business. Take the chance to have a pay-cut if you have been drawing good salaries, at least for these 2 months bah.

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