Question About Hybrid Cars

[pi3142]

For Toyota hybrids, the hybrid battery starts the engine. For the car to be ready for starting, the lead acid battery is used to power up the electronics. Once the car is powered up, the hybrid battery charges the lead acid battery.  Air-con is powered by the hybrid battery. After cooling for some time, the hybrid battery would be low. The engine is started to charge the low hybrid battery.

When a moving Toyota hybrid car is slowed down,  the braking charges the hybrid battery (around a third of the energy is recovered). In a normal car, this braking energy is lost as the brake pads are used.

Most lifts in SG are also on regen. The slowing down of the lift as it reaches its destination level, charges the battery beside the lift motor.

Edited May 4, 2020 by pi3142

[Toeknee_33]

44 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

If your occupation require you to be a mileage clocker, like insurance agent, property agent. . . Everyday will have more than 2-3 appt around Singapore, then I think it is feasible.

• The advantage is you can have substantial saving for your fuel cost.
• lesser petrol refuel
• and in a sense, you are going green.

Actually I find the value proposition for hybrid car is still not strong to own one in SG.

 

This is my value proposition, just for sharing.

I do about 28000 to 30000 km per year.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Toeknee_33

[Jeffreybry]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of hybrid cars?

[Sdf4786k]

On 5/4/2020 at 4:34 PM, kobayashiGT said:

If your occupation require you to be a mileage clocker, like insurance agent, property agent. . . Everyday will have more than 2-3 appt around Singapore, then I think it is feasible.

• The advantage is you can have substantial saving for your fuel cost.
• lesser petrol refuel
• and in a sense, you are going green.

Actually I find the value proposition for hybrid car is still not strong to own one in SG.

 

Cost more than a hot hatch n yet none of the driving enjoyment. Have to pay premium for battery replacement on average every 7 years.

have to stick to the eco tires model that came with the car to get the FC . 
 

unless those Prius are at a similar level as a Tesla 100, it’s going to be a while before the take up rate is there. 
 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Sdf4786k

[kobayashiGT]

24 minutes ago, Jeffreybry said:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of hybrid cars?

We have stated some of the advantages inside this thread. For disadvantages what I can think of will be

• lesser space compared to ICE cars. You have to consider in the battery.
• The battery will be spoilt too. then you have to factor in the repair cost
• Fire hazard? Battery doesn't really like heat. Singapore especially. (but I seldom came across hybird car explode or what lah. haha.
• Expensive. the cost you factor in, will you get back in term of the value?

 

[Philipkee]

On 5/4/2020 at 5:18 PM, Toeknee_33 said:

This is my value proposition, just for sharing.

I do about 28000 to 30000 km per year.

 

 

 

Going by your figures, for hybrid you save 100L a month. 

For ease of calculation, 1L of petrol =$2 after all discounts.

So in savings

1 month = $200

1 year = $2400

5 years = $12000

10 years = $24000

Actual figures will probably be more than $24000 cos petrol after discount might be more than $2/ L (OTOH I use Ron 92 for my manual accent so it's closer to $1.80/L after discount).

So for a hybrid to be worth it, assuming u drive it for 10 years, the hybrid cannot cost more than $24000 for an equivalent ICE car, correct?  Is that how you calculate if it's worth it?  

Just curious since you have that chart.

[Brass]

19 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

We have stated some of the advantages inside this thread. For disadvantages what I can think of will be

• lesser space compared to ICE cars. You have to consider in the battery.
• The battery will be spoilt too. then you have to factor in the repair cost
• Fire hazard? Battery doesn't really like heat. Singapore especially. (but I seldom came across hybird car explode or what lah. haha.
• Expensive. the cost you factor in, will you get back in term of the value?

 

But ... I rented a Tribecar Prius C of 2014 heritage, and it has like 312 000 km on its odometer. When I drove it around under standard conditions, it still gave me an fc of 20 kmpl (discounted rate ), which suggests that the battery has not gone under.

Given that they buy used near paper, and therefore rates are low, they have no reason to replace battery when they can scrap theirs and buy new at lower loss?

So i think reliability is a moot point since it can last that long. I dont think anyone is going to reach there in 10 years , isnt it?

 

[Volvobrick]

On 5/4/2020 at 6:56 AM, Philipkee said:

If that's the case, shouldn't the battery and a cable be standard emergency equipment for a car?  Pai sei I a but noob but u said small 35AH battery I kind of figured it should be less than the size of a car battery, which wont take up much space in a boot.  

Cos I have heard of people going round with a cable asking drivers to help jump start their cars and I wondered if it would be easier if they had the battery with them also.  Esp for older cars...  

Both the max cranking amp of the battery and the size of the cables play a part.  If want to standby charging cables, then buy the thickest one. The skinny ones may even not jump start 2.0 engine. 

Best is still to get the lithium jump start battery. Small, portable and very powerful! V8 also no issue (2000 A peak currrent type).

[Philipkee]

4 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Both the max cranking amp of the battery and the size of the cables play a part.  If want to standby charging cables, then buy the thickest one. The skinny ones may even not jump start 2.0 engine. 

Best is still to get the lithium jump start battery. Small, portable and very powerful! V8 also no issue (2000 A peak currrent type).

Oh.  I dunno why but I always thought the cables were standard size.......   😅

[Kb27]

39 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

We have stated some of the advantages inside this thread. For disadvantages what I can think of will be

• lesser space compared to ICE cars. You have to consider in the battery.
• The battery will be spoilt too. then you have to factor in the repair cost
• Fire hazard? Battery doesn't really like heat. Singapore especially. (but I seldom came across hybird car explode or what lah. haha.
• Expensive. the cost you factor in, will you get back in term of the value?

 

The Axio hybrid I rent, in 3+ years, (it has gone thru the 1st inspection) I've put 300k km on it, since i'm a phv driver.

Recently, the ignition coils and battery has to be replaced, it's quite reliable, if you see it's only wear and tear items replaced...and that's 300k km !

It also has a fan and filter for the hybrid battery, to keep it cool.

The hybrid battery will last how long ? We'll have to wait and see.

For fuel saving, you have to drive slow, once you accelerate, the engine kicks in and fuel saving is gone. If I drive normally, not too slow, at 80~90km/h on expressway, I can average 20km/L.

There's a EV mode, which can be turned on, but conditions limited to slow acceleration, under 60km/h and a fully charged hybrid battery. In this mode, can hit 25km/L or more. The engine doesn't run at all, until the hybrid battery is nearly discharged, then the engine kicks in.

 

But if you'll not putting in 50k km per year, then it's probably not a wise choice to buy hybrid.

[Kb27]

22 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Oh.  I dunno why but I always thought the cables were standard size.......   😅

Cables can be very cheap (small diameter copper) to very costly. 

Example, small gauge cable 18~24 AWG (US standards, the smaller the number, the thicker the wire) are used for lighter loads like radio, lights.

For starting engine, where the battery is connected to the starter motor, you're looking at, at least 8 AWG.

For jump start cables, 4 AWG and thicker is better suited, bcuz you're running a long length of cable. As I mentioned earlier, the higher the load required, the thicker the cable you should use.

To jump start a diesel lorry, I would need 2 AWG or 0 AWG, super heavy cable that costs $100+

[Achtung]

On 5/3/2020 at 8:17 PM, Kb27 said:

The next question would be, you're driving a hybrid car.

Somebody (driving a normal car) come and ask you for help to jump start his car.

Can you do it ? How ?

same lor. I did it before for my cars. One MPV and a hybrid Toyota which most of u hate.

[Achtung]

21 minutes ago, Kb27 said:

The Axio hybrid I rent, in 3+ years, (it has gone thru the 1st inspection) I've put 300k km on it, since i'm a phv driver.

Recently, the ignition coils and battery has to be replaced, it's quite reliable, if you see it's only wear and tear items replaced...and that's 300k km !

It also has a fan and filter for the hybrid battery, to keep it cool.

The hybrid battery will last how long ? We'll have to wait and see.

For fuel saving, you have to drive slow, once you accelerate, the engine kicks in and fuel saving is gone. If I drive normally, not too slow, at 80~90km/h on expressway, I can average 20km/L.

There's a EV mode, which can be turned on, but conditions limited to slow acceleration, under 60km/h and a fully charged hybrid battery. In this mode, can hit 25km/L or more. The engine doesn't run at all, until the hybrid battery is nearly discharged, then the engine kicks in.

 

But if you'll not putting in 50k km per year, then it's probably not a wise choice to buy hybrid.

Mine's a 2.5L, can average 900 kms on a full tank of 50L. Not too bad lar.

[Achtung]

42 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Oh.  I dunno why but I always thought the cables were standard size.......   😅

Nowadays, I just buy those starter battery pack. Even XiaoMi has it.

[Kb27]

43 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Oh.  I dunno why but I always thought the cables were standard size.......   😅

And by the way, BMW have the battery located in the boot. It runs a very thick cable, probably 0 or 2 AWG from the battery to the front where the starter motor is.

If you scrap a BMW, that cable is like a gold mine. 

[Contipro]

18 minutes ago, Kb27 said:

Cables can be very cheap (small diameter copper) to very costly. 

Example, small gauge cable 18~24 AWG (US standards, the smaller the number, the thicker the wire) are used for lighter loads like radio, lights.

For starting engine, where the battery is connected to the starter motor, you're looking at, at least 8 AWG.

For jump start cables, 4 AWG and thicker is better suited, bcuz you're running a long length of cable. As I mentioned earlier, the higher the load required, the thicker the cable you should use.

To jump start a diesel lorry, I would need 2 AWG or 0 AWG, super heavy cable that costs $100+

yup, thicker the cable core the more current it allow to pass thru.

small cable core less current pass thru and generate heat quickly as waste.

just think of the fuse in our house electrical plug, thicker cable inside the fuse means higher the Amp rating.

[Yewheng]

On 5/3/2020 at 7:24 PM, ER-3682 said:

I got a Friend,got a big Factory in Tuas,He Bought the Top of Tesla,built a Super Charger in the Factory with 400V,very fast charging & very cheap....

Wa.. When got money.. Building super charger is not of a problem.. People like us common folks.. Well electronic cars? 1st thing we have to think of is where to charge? Haha

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Wa.. When got money.. Building super charger is not of a problem.. People like us common folks.. Well electronic cars? 1st thing we have to think of is where to charge? Haha

My home is 5 mins away from the nearest DC charging station.