The operation was successful but the patient died.. how ah?

[BenTong]

There’s a saying .. the operation was successful but the patient died..

 The economy kaput vs test like Seow numbers up and up..

 

your thoughts?

[Angcheek]

Its not flooding .... its ponding . 😄🍻🍻🍻

CCB CCB everywhere 🤣

[Kb27]

Next patient please.

Don't worry, our operation is very successful.

[yishunite]

Mask may or may not be effective but dont wear it until we tell u to wear it then if u dont FINE

[Ct3833]

3 hours ago, BenTong said:

There’s a saying .. the operation was successful but the patient died..

 The economy kaput vs test like Seow numbers up and up..

 

your thoughts?

Where where ?

[Carbon82]

Let me share my view, from a layman perspective.

Looking at overseas, fatality rate started to rocket when medical facilities become overloaded. Lock down / movement control / circuit breaker has proven to be an effective approach in preventing medical facilities from overloading (by limiting community spread - including those at workplace).

While that kills businesses in short term, not doing anything now and allowing it to snowball, consequences maybe much worst when things get out of control at later stage (more businesses will be affected and an even longer road to recovery).

1 or 2 patient died, let learn from experience and prevent more from dying. By saying that, I am referring to a holistic review of business operations, town planning, accommodation, travel / transportation, reliance on foreign workers and such. I have to emphasize that my view has NOTHING to do with politics, before things started to get out of context.

[Lala81]

11 hours ago, BenTong said:

There’s a saying .. the operation was successful but the patient died..

 The economy kaput vs test like Seow numbers up and up..

 

your thoughts?

I quote Cuomo "Dead is dead, it's final" 

Close to dying is better than dead.

[Atrecord]

2 hours ago, Lala81 said:

I quote Cuomo "Dead is dead, it's final" 

Close to dying is better than dead.

i love that exchange. kept the reporter quiet.

but the problem is the damned americans are so self-centred. They dun care if the weak/elderly will die. they want to restart the economy so they themselves can earn a living - and enjoy themselves....

[Lala81]

1 minute ago, Atrecord said:

i love that exchange. kept the reporter quiet.

but the problem is the damned americans are so self-centred. They dun care if the weak/elderly will die. they want to restart the economy so they themselves can earn a living - and enjoy themselves....

The reporter was stupid, cos she is trying to compare mass unemployment (and the associated problems) with a risk of a worsening pandemic.

I think in general most americans support a shutdown, but unfortunately, this is almost very likely the ones who can still afford to be shutdown. Business owners are of course kan cheong to get restarted, but likely the poor/lower class workers (especially the undocumented immigrants) are the ones who want to go back to work ASAP.

I don't think they are selfish per say. This is not Singapore. They don't have HDBs to stay in. Despite their govt stimulus, 20 million americans have lost their jobs.  For many of them, they would rather risk getting covid then stop working, cos it means they will be homeless and getting food from soup kitchens. 

If u literally have no money to feed your kids, i think u would risk getting covid ... Just be very thankful that the govt measures here are more comprehensive and try to address some of these issues better. And the money is able to be easily deposited into our bank accounts. And there's much lower risk of homelessness as HDB is not going to throw people out on the streets and create more social problems.

 

[Sosaria]

15 minutes ago, Lala81 said:

I think in general most americans support a shutdown, but unfortunately, this is almost very likely the ones who can still afford to be shutdown. Business owners are of course kan cheong to get restarted, but likely the poor/lower class workers (especially the undocumented immigrants) are the ones who want to go back to work ASAP.

I don't think they are selfish per say. This is not Singapore. They don't have HDBs to stay in. Despite their govt stimulus, 20 million americans have lost their jobs.  For many of them, they would rather risk getting covid then stop working, cos it means they will be homeless and getting food from soup kitchens.

 

Correct. Especially in this forum, looks like most members have no great worry about losing employment or livelihood totally. Just an inconvenience. So are more supportive of longer lockdown if necessary. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Sosaria

[Sosaria]

13 hours ago, Kb27 said:

Next patient please.

Don't worry, our operation is very successful.

Yes, by our highly paid surgeons, always adamant it's successful  

[Jusnel]

28 minutes ago, Lala81 said:

The reporter was stupid, cos she is trying to compare mass unemployment (and the associated problems) with a risk of a worsening pandemic.

I think in general most americans support a shutdown, but unfortunately, this is almost very likely the ones who can still afford to be shutdown. Business owners are of course kan cheong to get restarted, but likely the poor/lower class workers (especially the undocumented immigrants) are the ones who want to go back to work ASAP.

I don't think they are selfish per say. This is not Singapore. They don't have HDBs to stay in. Despite their govt stimulus, 20 million americans have lost their jobs.  For many of them, they would rather risk getting covid then stop working, cos it means they will be homeless and getting food from soup kitchens. 

If u literally have no money to feed your kids, i think u would risk getting covid ... Just be very thankful that the govt measures here are more comprehensive and try to address some of these issues better. And the money is able to be easily deposited into our bank accounts. And there's much lower risk of homelessness as HDB is not going to throw people out on the streets and create more social problems.

 

Agree.

Those who complain, better come and do a better job lah.  If u can sit in front of the national camera and tell the world about your progress and what you have done, u do. 

 

 

[Lala81]

I'm not sure the Swedish strategy will be accepted here. Very surprising that a first world country adopted something that only the 3rd world/emerging markets is accepting reluctantly. Even India is not a pure herd immunity policy.

3040 deaths and counting. In a country that is way less dense than Singapore and with only double our population.
Also many of their youngsters (20-30s) stay alone in apartments in the cities (as part of their usual social structure). But it's accepted in their social compact (doubt the muslim immigrants had much of a say though...)

In a way, we are forced to use herd immunity for the FW. Not cos we want to, but it's forced upon us, cos there's no way we can fix up so much accomodation for the FW given the short time frame.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Lala81

[Angcheek]

12 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

Where where ?

Recent news abt a malay woman in sg 

[Spring]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:36 PM, Lala81 said:

I'm not sure the Swedish strategy will be accepted here. Very surprising that a first world country adopted something that only the 3rd world/emerging markets is accepting reluctantly. Even India is not a pure herd immunity policy.

3040 deaths and counting. In a country that is way less dense than Singapore and with only double our population.
Also many of their youngsters (20-30s) stay alone in apartments in the cities (as part of their usual social structure). But it's accepted in their social compact (doubt the muslim immigrants had much of a say though...)

In a way, we are forced to use herd immunity for the FW. Not cos we want to, but it's forced upon us, cos there's no way we can fix up so much accomodation for the FW given the short time frame.

 

Just read in today ST about the Swedish model.

To a layman like me, it sounds almost similar to what Finian Tan suggested, well at least some parts of it. It’s definitely controversial and like u, I also doubt this will be accepted here. In fact, I don’t think it will be accepted in most countries where 1 extra death is considered 1 death too many. I suppose Sweden is perhaps the only country in the World that dares to do this. Afterall, their liberal views on many aspects of life including family, sex etc makes them a prime candidate to adopt unorthodox methods. Time will tell if their method turns out to be correct or at least a better choice.........

[Wind30]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:46 AM, Carbon82 said:

Let me share my view, from a layman perspective.

Looking at overseas, fatality rate started to rocket when medical facilities become overloaded. Lock down / movement control / circuit breaker has proven to be an effective approach in preventing medical facilities from overloading (by limiting community spread - including those at workplace).

While that kills businesses in short term, not doing anything now and allowing it to snowball, consequences maybe much worst when things get out of control at later stage (more businesses will be affected and an even longer road to recovery).

1 or 2 patient died, let learn from experience and prevent more from dying. By saying that, I am referring to a holistic review of business operations, town planning, accommodation, travel / transportation, reliance on foreign workers and such. I have to emphasize that my view has NOTHING to do with politics, before things started to get out of context.

Everybody agrees with keeping the epidemic under control but One cannot be given carte blanche based on it. 
My main beef is that whenever there are discussion on this, inevitably the lives argument comes up, and it triumphs everything.

saving the economy does not mean not doing anything For covid spread. It’s never black and white but just where to draw the line, more like different shades of gray. I think the government is trying to do both.

example on hindsight, do we even look at what the extended lockdown for MAY is buying us? Are we saving lives? Or are we standing still? Can we release non fw business earlier?

There are also lots of facts about covid that is weird to me. Why aren’t our icu cases spiking due to the fw cases? Are they almost all mild cases due to the fact they are extremely fit due to their nature of work? If this is the case, there might be other alternatives...

I think the government is Using this fact with regards to how to survive long term, post cb. they are trying harder to ring fence vulnerable sections of the society like nursing homes.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Wind30

[Mcscot]

2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Everybody agrees with keeping the epidemic under control but One cannot be given carte blanche based on it. 
My main beef is that whenever there are discussion on this, inevitably the lives argument comes up, and it triumphs everything.

saving the economy does not mean not doing anything For covid spread. It’s never black and white but just where to draw the line, more like different shades of gray. I think the government is trying to do both.

example on hindsight, do we even look at what the extended lockdown for MAY is buying us? Are we saving lives? Or are we standing still? Can we release non fw business earlier?

There are also lots of facts about covid that is weird to me. Why aren’t our icu cases spiking due to the fw cases? Are they almost all mild cases due to the fact they are extremely fit due to their nature of work? If this is the case, there might be other alternatives...

I think the government is Using this fact with regards to how to survive long term, post cb. they are trying harder to ring fence vulnerable sections of the society like nursing homes.

Dear All - short term pain for long term gain. Let us look forward and not look back. It is always good to have 20/20 hindsight. The Govt should have done this or the Govt should have done that. 

Dudes there is no precedence for this situation. They made a decision based on best guess scenario. They made decisions based on what happened in China / Europe / USA. Please look at the death toll and the mortality in these places are on seismic proportions. You have patients' bodies lying on the floor in Nursing Homes cos undertakers cannot clear them quick enough. 

I am thankful for the ICU numbers being low (touchwood!) but to be honest, from what I have gathered we have been planning for the spike in ICU numbers for the last 3 months. I am still hoping that the ICU numbers don't spike and they are low for a variety of reasons e.g. fitter patients, different strain of COVID-19, better mitigation/containment plans etc etc.

I think this situation allows them carte blanche for the steps taken.

PS - I am bound to be flamed for these views but seriously, I think we need to take a step back and really look at the situation. We need to give credit where credit is due. IMHO.

 

[Strat]

1 hour ago, Mcscot said:

Dear All - short term pain for long term gain. Let us look forward and not look back. It is always good to have 20/20 hindsight. The Govt should have done this or the Govt should have done that. 

Dudes there is no precedence for this situation. They made a decision based on best guess scenario. They made decisions based on what happened in China / Europe / USA. Please look at the death toll and the mortality in these places are on seismic proportions. You have patients' bodies lying on the floor in Nursing Homes cos undertakers cannot clear them quick enough. 

I am thankful for the ICU numbers being low (touchwood!) but to be honest, from what I have gathered we have been planning for the spike in ICU numbers for the last 3 months. I am still hoping that the ICU numbers don't spike and they are low for a variety of reasons e.g. fitter patients, different strain of COVID-19, better mitigation/containment plans etc etc.

I think this situation allows them carte blanche for the steps taken.

PS - I am bound to be flamed for these views but seriously, I think we need to take a step back and really look at the situation. We need to give credit where credit is due. IMHO.

 

 

erm don;t think we pay million dollar salary to make decisions based on best guess scenario 

Compare to Vietnam, sad to say we have fallen short of the standard of a million dollar result..