Dealer who sold car with tampered odometer wins case

[inlinesix]

5 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

i consider myself super low usage also clock close to 20k a year

I am lower than that.  What would that be?

😂

[inlinesix]

Just now, Philipkee said:

Nope. You can only prove it was tampered.   But you cannot prove who did it. Later it is twisted to say the buyer got a friend to tamper with the odo to try to cheat the honest dealer.

Now u have the buyer in court trying to prove a negative - prove he did not tamper with the odometer before going to Mazda for checks.  And proving a negative is much harder than proving a positive.

It is easier to prove someone did something (proving a positive) than to prove someone did not do something  (proving a negative).

Read the case.  It is a case of car dealer misrepresent the mileage of the car.

In this case, the judge already clearly stated that you need technical personnel from AD to sumpah in court.

[Throttle2]

Cant the case be adjourned while the correct witness if so required be called to court.  I didnt read the full story but if the case was just thrown out like that, it makes me wonder what the blindfold on lady justice represent? So many cheats go scot free.

 

 

 

[Meanmachine]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

The case is about misrepresentation.

If Mazda technician appears in court and sumpah, the dealer will be found guilty of misrepresentation.

If dealar has misrepresented, dealer can sue the previous owner.

     True, the case can be spiralled to the previous owner, many parties will be involved, not too sure if the case happened if your have predicted correct, the court has to re-open the case I reckon it will open another can of worm . . . wonder how it will turn up ?

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, Throttle2 said:

Cant the case be adjourned while the correct witness if so required be called to court.  I didnt read the full story but if the case was just thrown out like that, it makes me wonder what the blindfold on lady justice represent? So many cheats go scot free.

In a civil proceeding, can the plaintiff make a witness appear in court?

[Throttle2]

4 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

In a civil proceeding, can the plaintiff make a witness appear in court?

So the plaintiff was fu(ked right from the start? 

I dont know this shit. But i know if we want to get to the bottom of things, then we must get to the bottom of things.  

 

[Vinceng]

A 20,000km annual mileage car that does mostly highway driving has less wear than a 10,000km one with many cold starts and short trips within the city.

[Meanmachine]

5 hours ago, Rickster said:

Actually, even if the Mazda technician appears in court and sumpah that the odo has been tempered, it may not help with the case much. It only proves that the car's mileage has been tampered with and does not offer concrete proof who actually did it.

Perhaps, the lawyer already knew this and is betting on using circumstantial evidence to nail the dealer, but failed.

     Allow me to share, at times we have to see who is the lawyer representing the defendant or victim, the tough nut lawyer has years of experiences in fighting such cases know how to ask Qs based on Victim's weakness. Lawyer plays a crucial role in winning case whereby thy bounds to lose, thy appeal and buy time to make it fight, how deep is one pocket ? for this scenario, tweaking of odometer isn't justify to car 's breakdown and local law do not justify a car technician to be subpoenaed in such situation unless it a murder case, ( I think )

[Soya]

32 minutes ago, Vinceng said:

50,000 km in 3 yrs - that's averaging 16,000km a year. Not high at all.

Exactly. Plus, my car was accident free, maintained by agent, overall tip top. Shld be easy for any used car dealer to sell by itself.

But because of 'industry practice', they just couldn't help themselves....

 

[Wt_know]

30 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

I am lower than that.  What would that be?

😂

you should pass me the key so that i can do melaka breakfast and back (500km to and fro) every weekend ... 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Wt_know

[Adrianli]

43 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

I am lower than that.  What would that be?

😂

Same same. Struggling to even clock 10k km per year.

[Philipkee]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

Read the case.  It is a case of car dealer misrepresent the mileage of the car.

In this case, the judge already clearly stated that you need technical personnel from AD to sumpah in court.

Disagree.  It was a case of a car dealer accused of misrepresenting.  Nothing was proven in court.  Even though you know I know.   

Secondly, the technical personnel from AD can only sumpah the odo was tampered.  He can't sumpah who did it (unless he witnessed it himself ).  Even if it can be proven that he sent the car directly from second hand dealer to the AD and there are documents proving it, it can always be the previous owner who tampered with the odo before selling to the dealer.

55 minutes ago, Meanmachine said:

     True, the case can be spiralled to the previous owner, many parties will be involved, not too sure if the case happened if your have predicted correct, the court has to re-open the case I reckon it will open another can of worm . . . wonder how it will turn up ?

Actually I was thinking of the case going to the CURRENT owner.  Cos how can you prove that the current car owner did not buy the car with correct odo reading and then changed it to trick the car dealer? Unless the odo reading is written in the receipt...  when I got my new car i just visually checked the odo before driving off.  There was no odo reading in  the invoice.  Never bought second hand car before....

Edit.  It is possible the odo is in the advert but when i went to look for second hand cars years ago I did not rely on the advert but just went to turf city to look at all the cars.  So some may be doing that.  That was 2013.  Not sure about now.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Philipkee

[inlinesix]

41 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

you should pass me the key so that i can do melaka breakfast and back (500km to and fro) every weekend ... 

Need to wait 2021 

[inlinesix]

 

8 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Disagree.  It was a case of a car dealer accused of misrepresenting.  Nothing was proven in court.  Even though you know I know.   

Secondly, the technical personnel from AD can only sumpah the odo was tampered.  He can't sumpah who did it (unless he witnessed it himself ).  Even if it can be proven that he sent the car directly from second hand dealer to the AD and there are documents proving it, it can always be the previous owner who tampered with the odo before selling to the dealer.

Regardless who did it, any misrepresentation in a S&P contract, seller needs to compensate buyer.  That's misrepresentation.

The problem with this case is that there is NO technical person stand in court stating that odo is substantially misrepresented.

[Philipkee]

10 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

 

Regardless who did it, any misrepresentation in a S&P contract, seller needs to compensate buyer.  That's misrepresentation.

The problem with this case is that there is NO technical person stand in court stating that odo is substantially misrepresented.

First paragraph, I get it. 

Second paragraph, I foresee a problem in the future (if not now) cos i do not know how likely would technical people want to be on the stand.  If I understand correctly, the technician who signs off the document on odo tampering has to be the one on the stand and not a random Mazda car technician.  Especially if this is rampant.   It would make the technician very busy and yet not being productive (earning money) for the workshop. 

[Jamesc]

To prove the case need the person or company that sold the car to the dealer to testify they sold a car with the higher mileage and customer to prove he bought the car with the lower mileage.

My MIL say one and she is an expert in everything.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Jamesc

[1fast1]

6 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Read the case.  It is a case of car dealer misrepresent the mileage of the car.

In this case, the judge already clearly stated that you need technical personnel from AD to sumpah in court.

And if you call and they don't come? Can court subpoena? 

No point saying need this and that to make your case if you don't make sure that you take every effort in your power to make sure key witnesses appear. Who has the power to compel people to appear in court? Plaintiff - who can at most offer money? Or the court that can (I believe) subpoena witnesses? 

[inlinesix]

1 minute ago, Turboflat4 said:

And if you call and they don't come? Can court subpoena? 

No point saying need this and that to make your case if you don't make sure that you take every effort in your power to make sure key witnesses appear. Who has the power to compel people to appear in court? Plaintiff - who can at most offer money? Or the court that can (I believe) subpoena witnesses? 

I am not sure whether subpoena works in Singapore.

Watch a lot of it in drama.

Unlikely AD will sent any technical person to testify unless its court order.