COVID-19: Retrenchments

[Wind30]

9 hours ago, Voodooman said:

SG is not closed to talents, is it?  Despite all the new measures, we remain very open to FT, relative to many other countries.

Why should we allow DP holders (that includes spouse, mother, father, etc) to automatically be eligible for a local job when the same quota can be given to even more talented immigrant that is vetted through existing processes?  If boosting GDP indiscriminately via imports is the objective, then don’t need to debate so much. 

Jo is just closing a buy 1 get 1 free (or 2) loophole that has been abused by many. 

If the DP holders are really talented, i am sure they can get a job. What has changed? 

The only issue i see is talented DP holders who only wants to work part time as their full time job is to be a stay home parent / tai tai. They can no longer meet the min $ criteria. 

 

I don't think I have ever said I am against this new change. I think it is good. I also think my Engineer's DP wife should be able to get a proper employment pass. She works full time in a tech startup. 

 

 

[Wt_know]

8 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

not sure if you are even reading this thread. You see so many people in this thread dissing Engineering, asking their kids not to join engineering. 

it's chicken and egg la ... 

like i said ... engineer is paid peanut and work their ass off ... roll up sleeves and get dirty

but when you see FB, IG, even boring Sunday Times ... the young and handsum drive BMW and weark rolex making $20K a pop definitely not from Engineering field

who want to study engineering? lol

even study engineering ... got chance chop chop jump to sales, consultant, project management, etc - who want to remain in the dirty work and excel their skill?  

Edited March 10, 2021 by Wt_know

[Wind30]

9 hours ago, Albeniz said:

The one with exceptionally high IQ and takes very beautiful pictures?

At the end, you guys think it is a joke. 

But if you are in the industry you know it is a serious problem. There are not just me who is singaporean and is engineering. I do see a lot of good 40+ year olds in engineering. People my generation who did well in studies are still willing to join a career in engineering.

Now you have Singaporean on one hand asking their kids NOT to join engineering, and other Singaporeans on the other hand asking us not to hire overseas engineers...

???? 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Wind30

[Victor68]

28 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

At the end, you guys think it is a joke. 

But if you are in the industry you know it is a serious problem. There are not just me who is singaporean and is engineering. I do see a lot of good 40+ year olds in engineering. People my generation who did well in studies are still willing to join a career in engineering.

Now you have Singaporean on one hand asking their kids NOT to join engineering, and other Singaporeans on the other hand asking us not to hire overseas engineers...

???? 

Do you know why engineering courses are not preferred in our local uni? Of course there are still students for such courses otherwise why the 2 major uni still conduct classes?

Unlike medical and law, their profession is not 'protected' and we are therefore flooded with 'FT Engineers '. I am sure our engineers will be very willing to go the US or Germany to be engineers and many aspire engineers will study in our local uni in engineering given the same opportunity. Employers given options,  they would like the cheapest source for bigger profit margin. I am not even talking about CECA but engineering has less of this issue. 

[Enye]

on hindsight, i am just glad that the smart elite one went on to become a rich successful ic design engineering manager in his time and maybe a director in future

and not a psc scholar crafting govt policies for lesser mortals like me in the past 20 years or more

life is already hard as it is now with psc being filled up with such scholars through the years

😬😅

[Icedbs]

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

not sure if you are even reading this thread. You see so many people in this thread dissing Engineering, asking their kids not to join engineering. 

Sigh, I am not saying Singaporeans are not smart. We have the smart ones too. In fact I feel Singapore has more smart people by percentage than AngMo countries like USA. But they don't join engineering.

Nanyang Technological University (NTU) has the top 4 engineering school in the world.  In Asia, it rank 1st.

By engineering subject, its Materials Science expertise is the 1st in the world by the latest QS World Universities ranking.

I do not think that NTU would reach such standing if no locals are sending their kids to the engineering school there.  As of 2020, there are 10648 undergraduates in the college of engineering alone.

The Universities here are producing some of the brightest engineering graduates in the world.  

Granted, SV has Stanford (rank #2 in engineering), but NTU is not that far. 

Perhaps you did not search for the locals hard enough?

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Icedbs

[Mkl22]

11 hours ago, Vegas said:

ok, i geddit. you smart. fellow singaporeans not smart enuf. even source regionally not many pple as smart as u to hold a conference with SV pple.

So think about how come u so smart. gu ni hoon good? or mensa trained? there must be a WHY u so smart mah

then replicate... enuf times, will have smart ones again depending on hit rate lor

people GEP ley....😁

[Wind30]

53 minutes ago, Icedbs said:

Nanyang Technological University (NTU) has the top 4 engineering school in the world.  In Asia, it rank 1st.

By engineering subject, its Materials Science expertise is the 1st in the world by the latest QS World Universities ranking.

I do not think that NTU would reach such standing if no locals are sending their kids to the engineering school there.  As of 2020, there are 10648 undergraduates in the college of engineering alone.

The Universities here are producing some of the brightest engineering graduates in the world.  

Granted, SV has Stanford (rank #2 in engineering), but NTU is not that far. 

Perhaps you did not search for the locals hard enough?

 

 

I can be wrong. that is why one of the things we wanted EDB to show us is how the intake in local uni engineering is like now. Why we never had any resume from anyone from RJC or HCJC?? not a single one. zero. Maybe they never apply my company. But EDB should have such data. They need to look at the data and come up with the right conclusions. Is what I am seeing true, ie good students no longer join Engineering in local uni? Or they still do but prefer another specialization or company? Without actually knowing the current situation, it is hard to solve the problem.

Personally, I have heard NUS engin professor lamenting that engine has become "the dumping ground"... whatever that means...

Rankings, you need to know what they are ranked based upon. research? If it is research, you do know that almost all research students in engine is not local...

Edited March 10, 2021 by Wind30

[ToyotaShuttle]

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

not sure if you are even reading this thread. You see so many people in this thread dissing Engineering, asking their kids not to join engineering. 

Sigh, I am not saying Singaporeans are not smart. We have the smart ones too. In fact I feel Singapore has more smart people by percentage than AngMo countries like USA. But they don't join engineering.

Intelligence, IQ, is something that can be measured. It is like height, weight, strength. Sure you can hire me who can barely lift 10kg to do construction but is that wise???

 

I'm not sure if you are trying to understand the issue. Why are our engineers paid so poorly? Your FT so smart but he's here in SG making peanuts instead of going to SV?

If you pay sgreans so poorly, then of course the smart ones aren't going to study engineering la.

[ToyotaShuttle]

 

59 minutes ago, Icedbs said:

Nanyang Technological University (NTU) has the top 4 engineering school in the world.  In Asia, it rank 1st.

By engineering subject, its Materials Science expertise is the 1st in the world by the latest QS World Universities ranking.

I do not think that NTU would reach such standing if no locals are sending their kids to the engineering school there. 

The Universities here are producing some of the brightest engineering graduates in the world.  

Granted, SV has Stanford (rank #2 in engineering), but NTU is not that far. 

Perhaps you did not search for the locals hard enough?

 

 

You know uni ranking isn't based on how good the students are or how good the profs are at teaching right?

[CremornePt]

5 minutes ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

You know uni ranking isn't based on how good the students are or how good the profs are at teaching right?

https://www.ricemedia.co/current-affairs-university-rankings-basically-horoscopes-needy-adults-craving-validation/

NTU Engineering the best in Asia?! That's plain absurd.

[Wind30]

6 minutes ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

I'm not sure if you are trying to understand the issue. Why are our engineers paid so poorly? Your FT so smart but he's here in SG making peanuts instead of going to SV?

If you pay sgreans so poorly, then of course the smart ones aren't going to study engineering la.

Engineering is a very broad field and there are many specializations. Due to the fact that, some engineers like harddisk, wafer fab, had a tough time in the past, it is hard to attract new students to do engineering.

There are good jobs in engineering else why government is trying to encourage it? I don't think my field pays badly but I am lucky in the sense that IC design is still growing in Singapore.

Nothing is really like black and white, ie all engineers are paid badly, or all local students are lousy. There are good local students but how do I convince an 18 year old to do electronics???

I got engineers who use my team as a stepping stone to Silicon Valley. I already lost a few of them. 

[Victor68]

48 minutes ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

I'm not sure if you are trying to understand the issue. Why are our engineers paid so poorly? Your FT so smart but he's here in SG making peanuts instead of going to SV?

If you pay sgreans so poorly, then of course the smart ones aren't going to study engineering la.

If Engineers are paid like doctors and lawyers, see if our people will rush for the courses or not? 

[Wt_know]

3 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

If Engineers are paid like doctors and lawyers, see if our people will rush for the courses or not? 

u mean the Engineer poster that i saw in MRT carriage?  

during my ah pa time ... if you go CNY visit and say you are 工程师 ... all kowtow liao

now ... they thought you supervise ah neh ... 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Wt_know

[Wt_know]

which of these can make $20K a pop?  

may be i can convince my nephew to give up Youtuber, Instagrammer, Influencer or TikToker ...  

Edited March 10, 2021 by Wt_know

[JanM]

38 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

Engineering is a very broad field and there are many specializations. Due to the fact that, some engineers like harddisk, wafer fab, had a tough time in the past, it is hard to attract new students to do engineering.

There are good jobs in engineering else why government is trying to encourage it? I don't think my field pays badly but I am lucky in the sense that IC design is still growing in Singapore.

Nothing is really like black and white, ie all engineers are paid badly, or all local students are lousy. There are good local students but how do I convince an 18 year old to do electronics???

I got engineers who use my team as a stepping stone to Silicon Valley. I already lost a few of them. 

Maybe the government should embrace the rigour of a manpower budget.  The Bell Curve also apply to us and there are only so many students who are good at engineering.  However, the world has collectively decided that engineering jobs are not worth that much.  It thus makes sense for those who think they can do better to pursue other more lucrative fields.   For the remaining who choose their passion for engineering over financial rewards (kudos to them!), there are probably more positions available than they are candidates.  Thus in view of this, high engineering niches such as chip design may not be a viable field for Singapore to be in given its limited manpower pool.

[Albeniz]

16 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

If Engineers are paid like doctors and lawyers, see if our people will rush for the courses or not? 

In  1993 when I was a budding engineering undergraduate in NUS, my prof told me those  who can't make it to Engineering, end up doing law and medicine.

ok.  I agree he was just joking.

[Porker]

55 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

Engineering is a very broad field and there are many specializations. Due to the fact that, some engineers like harddisk, wafer fab, had a tough time in the past, it is hard to attract new students to do engineering.

There are good jobs in engineering else why government is trying to encourage it? I don't think my field pays badly but I am lucky in the sense that IC design is still growing in Singapore.

Nothing is really like black and white, ie all engineers are paid badly, or all local students are lousy. There are good local students but how do I convince an 18 year old to do electronics???

I got engineers who use my team as a stepping stone to Silicon Valley. I already lost a few of them. 

Well maybe it's because they couldn't stand you.