COVID-19: Retrenchments

[Throttle2]

48 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

While I support the JSS to save jobs. I am worried many companies out there are taking advantages of this scheme at the expense of tax payers. If a company is providing a contract to another company at a fixed contract fee and receiving this JSS, how is the subsidies being passed to the company paying for this service since there is no losses to the company providing the service? Who is tracking to ensure this? 

I am thinking no one, looking at the times we the taxpayers hv been fu(ked by fraudsters over and over again

[Voodooman]

47 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

While I support the JSS to save jobs. I am worried many companies out there are taking advantages of this scheme at the expense of tax payers. If a company is providing a contract to another company at a fixed contract fee and receiving this JSS, how is the subsidies being passed to the company paying for this service since there is no losses to the company providing the service? Who is tracking to ensure this? 

Don't think it is possible to administer a helicopter money scheme selectively.  There are some essential business like supply of stapled food, operators of supermarkets, supply of electricity, etc, they are probably making more money now with some cost being paid by G and their landlords.  But what G gives, they will take back some lah via taxes, levies, etc.  

To track and verify everything may just cost more money for G given the beneficiaries are a small part of the economy. 

 

[Scion]

so far, the major companies in Singapore laying off staff are HP, AirBnb, IBM, Expedia, Deliveroo, Rolls Royce, Uber, GE, airline companies....

[Icedbs]

1 hour ago, Victor68 said:

While I support the JSS to save jobs. I am worried many companies out there are taking advantages of this scheme at the expense of tax payers. If a company is providing a contract to another company at a fixed contract fee and receiving this JSS, how is the subsidies being passed to the company paying for this service since there is no losses to the company providing the service? Who is tracking to ensure this? 

In the above situation, I think the client can initiate a proposal to have the wage subsidies pass back to them. This can be in a form of a discount from the contract fee from each of the local manpower provided to the client.

The manpower supplier should be able to accede to this request as a win-win for mutual business sustainability and relationship going forward.

*I have done the above business model before on both side of the fences; as a client and also as a manpower provider.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Icedbs

[Yeobt]

I think some employees are looking forward for retrenchment benefits. My neighbour juz got his golden hen shake, the first thing he says to me was 'yeah, I'm going to get 2 rolexes with the money'. Laughing all the way to the bank. 😁

[Throttle2]

2 hours ago, Yeobt said:

I think some employees are looking forward for retrenchment benefits. My neighbour juz got his golden hen shake, the first thing he says to me was 'yeah, I'm going to get 2 rolexes with the money'. Laughing all the way to the bank. 😁

Gai siau leh. I hv Rolex to sell. These few months no sales, eat grass.  Help a bit leh

[Voodooman]

4 hours ago, Icedbs said:

In the above situation, I think the client can initiate a proposal to have the wage subsidies pass back to them. This can be in a form of a discount from the contract fee from each of the local manpower provided to the client.

The manpower supplier should be able to accede to this request as a win-win for mutual business sustainability and relationship going forward.

*I have done the above business model before on both side of the fences; as a client and also as a manpower provider.

A law can be passed to make sure the saving is passed on.  Many condo have signed fixed fee contracts with estate management company, with cleaning companies, with gardening companies... 

But it is a mess coz few will voluntarily cut their fees and such adjustment are seldom in the contracts. So the state must step in.

[Victor68]

5 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

A law can be passed to make sure the saving is passed on.  Many condo have signed fixed fee contracts with estate management company, with cleaning companies, with gardening companies... 

But it is a mess coz few will voluntarily cut their fees and such adjustment are seldom in the contracts. So the state must step in.

I am sure your MA qualify for JSS but did they pass the benefits to you? Their fee would include staff on site and HQ. It is complicated but JSS is not to create more revenue for them right? Someone should look into this and once caught impose heavy fine and jail term.

[Voodooman]

27 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

I am sure your MA qualify for JSS but did they pass the benefits to you? Their fee would include staff on site and HQ. It is complicated but JSS is not to create more revenue for them right? Someone should look into this and once caught impose heavy fine and jail term.

Nope. No reduction.

How to fine and jail when the payment is fixed and contractual?  Need to pass laws like what G did for property tax rebates. Won't happen lah.

 

[Victor68]

2 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Nope. No reduction.

How to fine and jail when the payment is fixed and contractual?  Need to pass laws like what G did for property tax rebates. Won't happen lah.

 

Yes just like the property tax law, you need to pass whatever you get to the party subscribing your service. Not easy, even the tax has 60 pages variations formula. 

[Atonchia]

13 hours ago, Jman888 said:

join the minority got pay, I think more like volunteer kaypoh

 

No lah join the majority and hopefully get job.....

Got friend use to run SME, business was good for years but then failed after not able to catch up on tech. 

Very active in grass roots. Eventually join in the party. 

Got referred to job, so now gainfully employed. 

 

[Atonchia]

12 hours ago, Scion said:

so far, the major companies in Singapore laying off staff are HP, AirBnb, IBM, Expedia, Deliveroo, Rolls Royce, Uber, GE, airline companies....

Still cannot understand why Deliveroo need to downsize. 

Unless killed off by food panda and grab. 

Thought April they just gotten 1000 more delivery personnel. 

Thought their forte mainly in food deliveries?? 

Unlike Grab mainly was transport for commuters. 

 

[Sdf4786k]

On 5/27/2020 at 8:49 AM, Victor68 said:

While I support the JSS to save jobs. I am worried many companies out there are taking advantages of this scheme at the expense of tax payers. If a company is providing a contract to another company at a fixed contract fee and receiving this JSS, how is the subsidies being passed to the company paying for this service since there is no losses to the company providing the service? Who is tracking to ensure this? 

It’s a rinse cycle from the past of subprime days. 
 

so now many banks with multi tier of Contractors are also stuck.

imagine a bank who is so smart outsource to a consulting IT solution.

the IT solution took a cut from the bank n further outsource to another recruiter to avoid loading the capex n do an opex instead to make the books look good. 
 

and in the end the Recuriter Contractors are the one that like a snake head in the older days of slavery.. 😂..

it’s important to save jobs n there’s no legal fraud here. Just that the plan is not crystal clear where the employees are taken care of . 

[Windwaver]

It was announced in yesterday's news that only 4% of the total workforce suffered a pay cut.

Out of these 4%, some suffered up to 25% cut.

4% only but the news never report how many are out of job in the first place.

 

[Windwaver]

On 5/27/2020 at 9:39 AM, Throttle2 said:

I am thinking no one, looking at the times we the taxpayers hv been fu(ked by fraudsters over and over again

Most likely.

Couple of days ago I was just catching up with a dentist friend who is running his own clinic.

He told me the landlord didn't do anything until the law was mandated to pass down the savings.

I can imagine this will also be the same for Job Support Scheme (JSS) or some other schemes we're not aware of.

We can't blame people for saying they only got $600 after hundreds of billions of $$ spent.

 

[Voodooman]

1 hour ago, Windwaver said:

It was announced in yesterday's news that only 4% of the total workforce suffered a pay cut.

Out of these 4%, some suffered up to 25% cut.

4% only but the news never report how many are out of job in the first place.

 

If G is paying 75% of wages and you cut the pay of your local workers by 25%, can?  

If you take JSS, any obligations not to fire workers?

[Windwaver]

18 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

If G is paying 75% of wages and you cut the pay of your local workers by 25%, can?  

If you take JSS, any obligations not to fire workers?

That's the grey area?

I'm assuming a reduction in salary also means government subsidy will be less (based on the reduced salary).

Of course employers can choose to let go of employees depending on situation (truthful or not another story).

 

[Icedbs]

1 hour ago, Windwaver said:

Most likely.

Couple of days ago I was just catching up with a dentist friend who is running his own clinic.

He told me the landlord didn't do anything until the law was mandated to pass down the savings.

I can imagine this will also be the same for Job Support Scheme (JSS) or some other schemes we're not aware of.

We can't blame people for saying they only got $600 after hundreds of billions of $$ spent.

 

For JSS, the wage subsidies goes direct to the employer.. The employee not likely to see it except knowing that he still has a job.