Time banking

[Ysc3]

'Pay now, work later': Is it legal to ask staff to 'return' work hours after Covid-19 reopening?

Her friends had their salaries cut or were laid off amid the Covid-19 outbreak.

So manicurist Mary (not her real name) was relieved - even grateful - when her employer told her that she would be receiving her full basic pay of $2,100 last month and this month.

Soon, though, she was disappointed after her boss told staff they would have to "return the working hours" by putting in 50 hours of overtime when business resumed after the end of the circuit breaker. Her 14 days of annual leave entitlement would also be reduced to seven days.

[Othello]

consult MOM lor. Since bulk of salary in these 2 months should come from JSS

14 minutes ago, Ysc3 said:

'Pay now, work later': Is it legal to ask staff to 'return' work hours after Covid-19 reopening?

Her friends had their salaries cut or were laid off amid the Covid-19 outbreak.

So manicurist Mary (not her real name) was relieved - even grateful - when her employer told her that she would be receiving her full basic pay of $2,100 last month and this month.

Soon, though, she was disappointed after her boss told staff they would have to "return the working hours" by putting in 50 hours of overtime when business resumed after the end of the circuit breaker. Her 14 days of annual leave entitlement would also be reduced to seven days.

fair mah ... how can be ungrateful one ? 

"As Mary is a Malaysian work permit holder, her employer would not have received any Jobs Support Scheme payout and only the foreign worker levy rebate of $750 each month, while her basic salary is much higher at $2,100."

[kobayashiGT]

I think some of the employers misinterpret the idea of paying their staffs.

A bit unfair for the scenario mention above. Shouldn't measure productivity by man-hour. should measure by customer satisfaction for the manicure case.

If I am a staff there and every customer I work with all will do the most expensive package after the covid 19, I have alrd increase the opportunity cost for the company liao.

I not too well-versed in nails. but if it is a hair salon, if everyone comes in and just cut hair and earn $10, like that must take how long to earn back the lost opportunity? I rather they do promotion, or during the covid-19 period retrain the staff for better customer interaction, then when reopen, can get the customer to do treatment, rebonding, colouring and all.

[Ysc3]

6 minutes ago, Othello said:

consult MOM lor. Since bulk of salary in these 2 months should come from JSS

fair mah ... how can be ungrateful one ? 

"As Mary is a Malaysian work permit holder, her employer would not have received any Jobs Support Scheme payout and only the foreign worker levy rebate of $750 each month, while her basic salary is much higher at $2,100."

Alternatively, she can make a lot of trouble for the employer and then force the employer to close down... And lose her job.

[Mkl22]

too much of an entitled mentality.

paid holiday for her if she thinks she doesn't need to "pay back" for the time spent at home. 

[Vid]

Getting gov support doesn't mean businesses are not bleeding when they are not opened. Employees do not understand that.

[Beregond]

8 minutes ago, Vid said:

Getting gov support doesn't mean businesses are not bleeding when they are not opened. Employees do not understand that.

Alot of eating place small rest is losing 5 digit every mth.

Grab food tax 30%income. Income from delievery  cannot even cover wages. 

Engineering side is fully operational. But.at 20-30%  workforce. Got order got work. But cannot do.

Only bosses and engineers can work. The worker all quarrentine or struck oversea malaysia for example

 This is happening to 90%  of the company and my neighbours that i know of.

[StreetFight3r]

37 minutes ago, Othello said:

consult MOM lor. Since bulk of salary in these 2 months should come from JSS

fair mah ... how can be ungrateful one ? 

"As Mary is a Malaysian work permit holder, her employer would not have received any Jobs Support Scheme payout and only the foreign worker levy rebate of $750 each month, while her basic salary is much higher at $2,100."

MOM already replied say its fair. i also think fair enough.... nail salon biz... two months no open means she is being paid to stay home do nth since theres no way she can WFH... paid 2.1k to pa bang at home each month... why complain somemore? convert to RM thats x 3 le. if shes not happy she can go back msia.. will she be paid rm6.3k to do nails in msia each month???

Edited June 16, 2020 by StreetFight3r

[StreetFight3r]

34 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

I think some of the employers misinterpret the idea of paying their staffs.

A bit unfair for the scenario mention above. Shouldn't measure productivity by man-hour. should measure by customer satisfaction for the manicure case.

If I am a staff there and every customer I work with all will do the most expensive package after the covid 19, I have alrd increase the opportunity cost for the company liao.

I not too well-versed in nails. but if it is a hair salon, if everyone comes in and just cut hair and earn $10, like that must take how long to earn back the lost opportunity? I rather they do promotion, or during the covid-19 period retrain the staff for better customer interaction, then when reopen, can get the customer to do treatment, rebonding, colouring and all.

i think is fair for this manicurist case.. unless we are talking about employees who been working from home since april.. but for this case she has not been workin since cb start.. zero revenue for the employer but full basic salary paid to employee. employee could have just pok her... im sure can easily hire bk a manicurist at lower cost.. question to this entitled manicurist is u want to complain or u want to continue working? many msians will be keen to take ur place

[Kangadrool]

At most slowly slowly do lor. 😂

Actually, some services slowly slowly do will increase customer satisfaction, like massage. 😁

[kobayashiGT]

8 minutes ago, StreetFight3r said:

i think is fair for this manicurist case.. unless we are talking about employees who been working from home since april.. but for this case she has not been workin since cb start.. zero revenue for the employer but full basic salary paid to employee. employee could have just pok her... im sure can easily hire bk a manicurist at lower cost.. question to this entitled manicurist is u want to complain or u want to continue working? many msians will be keen to take ur place

Yeah. I understand that. I didn't read the full story. Initially I tot is a Singaporean who have JSS.

But then again, in Singapore if you are willing, you won't starve to death one. Just need to adjust your means.

[ToyotaShuttle]

53 minutes ago, Ysc3 said:

'Pay now, work later': Is it legal to ask staff to 'return' work hours after Covid-19 reopening?

Her friends had their salaries cut or were laid off amid the Covid-19 outbreak.

So manicurist Mary (not her real name) was relieved - even grateful - when her employer told her that she would be receiving her full basic pay of $2,100 last month and this month.

Soon, though, she was disappointed after her boss told staff they would have to "return the working hours" by putting in 50 hours of overtime when business resumed after the end of the circuit breaker. Her 14 days of annual leave entitlement would also be reduced to seven days.

I think employer can reduce annual leave anytime they want (modifying the employment contract) but mandatory UNPAID overtime is against employment act for low wage workers.

34 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

I think some of the employers misinterpret the idea of paying their staffs.

A bit unfair for the scenario mention above. Shouldn't measure productivity by man-hour. should measure by customer satisfaction for the manicure case.

If I am a staff there and every customer I work with all will do the most expensive package after the covid 19, I have alrd increase the opportunity cost for the company liao.

I not too well-versed in nails. but if it is a hair salon, if everyone comes in and just cut hair and earn $10, like that must take how long to earn back the lost opportunity? I rather they do promotion, or during the covid-19 period retrain the staff for better customer interaction, then when reopen, can get the customer to do treatment, rebonding, colouring and all.

Then maybe they should be commission based? But I doubt shopkeepers want that as they want to make all the money during good times.

2 minutes ago, StreetFight3r said:

MOM already replied say its fair. i also think fair enough.... nail salon biz... two months no open means she is being paid to stay home do nth since theres no way she can WFH... paid 2.1k to pa bang at home each month... why complain somemore? convert to RM thats x 3 le. if shes not happy she can go back msia.. will she be paid 6.3k to do nails in msia each month???

Where was the reply from MOM?

[StreetFight3r]

1 minute ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

I think employer can reduce annual leave anytime they want (modifying the employment contract) but mandatory UNPAID overtime is against employment act for low wage workers.

Then maybe they should be commission based? But I doubt shopkeepers want that as they want to make all the money during good times.

Where was the reply from MOM?

its in the article if u bother to read

When told of Mary's situation, an MOM spokesman said her employer was not "unreasonable".

The spokesman explained that the employer had borrowed the concept of time-banking, which allows employees to be paid now for work to be done later.

"Overall, it appears that Mary would be paid her full basic salary for three months, while the employer has only asked her to consume part of her annual leave entitlement and time-banked less than two weeks of unworked hours," she said.

"As Mary is a Malaysian work permit holder, her employer would not have received any Jobs Support Scheme payout and only the foreign worker levy rebate of $750 each month, while her basic salary is much higher at $2,100."

[ToyotaShuttle]

3 minutes ago, StreetFight3r said:

its in the article if u bother to read

When told of Mary's situation, an MOM spokesman said her employer was not "unreasonable".

The spokesman explained that the employer had borrowed the concept of time-banking, which allows employees to be paid now for work to be done later.

"Overall, it appears that Mary would be paid her full basic salary for three months, while the employer has only asked her to consume part of her annual leave entitlement and time-banked less than two weeks of unworked hours," she said.

"As Mary is a Malaysian work permit holder, her employer would not have received any Jobs Support Scheme payout and only the foreign worker levy rebate of $750 each month, while her basic salary is much higher at $2,100."

I did not bother to read 😂

Since govt said so, then she has to suck thumb or quit from the job. 

[Ysc3]

45 minutes ago, StreetFight3r said:

MOM already replied say its fair. i also think fair enough.... nail salon biz... two months no open means she is being paid to stay home do nth since theres no way she can WFH... paid 2.1k to pa bang at home each month... why complain somemore? convert to RM thats x 3 le. if shes not happy she can go back msia.. will she be paid rm6.3k to do nails in msia each month???

Personally,  I think there has to be give and take between employer and employee.  When times are hard,  boss continue to pay you... Never say anything, so when things improving,  just work a bit more to reciprocate lah. 

Last time when I got overtime pay,  we had to fill up the OT requisition form ...but I never did.  I just told my manager,  I'll just told him pay me if you think I deserve it. And I always got paid. 

[kobayashiGT]

1 hour ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

I think employer can reduce annual leave anytime they want (modifying the employment contract) but mandatory UNPAID overtime is against employment act for low wage workers.

Then maybe they should be commission based? But I doubt shopkeepers want that as they want to make all the money during good times.

Where was the reply from MOM?

Alot of the salon I know are all commission based for premium service one. to push the staff to work harder.

And if her basic is $2,100. Don't qualify as low wage lah. according to SG ministar. haahaha.

[ToyotaShuttle]

46 minutes ago, kobayashiGT said:

Alot of the salon I know are all commission based for premium service one. to push the staff to work harder.

And if her basic is $2,100. Don't qualify as low wage lah. according to SG ministar. haahaha.

This is what I am referring to.

[ToyotaShuttle]