Xi's Gorbachev obsession put China on a Soviet path

[Voodooman]

12 hours ago, inlinesix said:

That's why Taiwan is strategically important to PRC for its nuclear submarine.

Japan?

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Japan?

Currently, PRC submarine can’t sail into Pacific Ocean without being detected.

Submarine are based in Hainan

[Volvobrick]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Currently, PRC submarine can’t sail into Pacific Ocean without being detected.

Submarine are based in Hainan

20 km of cable with microphone from Changi to Batam will detect everything.

[Vinyl]

22 hours ago, Playtime said:

when we talk about china vs us, lets take a historical view.

using a singapore centric assessment.

 

Lets take what happened 80 years ago.

Singapore exist... most of SEA exist .. as we know today because of the defeat of Japan in WW2. The defeat of japan was a US effort... , lets be honest, no other allied countries had the naval and industrial power to even stand up to the Japanese Navy then. After defeating japan, it was US that ensured a peaceful  rise of Japan, that in itself benefited the AsiaPac greatly.The Korean war  soon after WW2 was a UN effort, but again, without US forces ... and LIVES.. South Korea would not exist, and with it, the implications for Japan is dire too. 

 Taken together, the peaceful rise of both Korea and Japan was.. and still is.. a great achievement. And make no mistake.. its the US umbrella thats keeping them both from going nuclear.

 If thats not enough, people can KPKB about US in Vietnam war... but ask ... without the US, what happens to the thai peninsula? Can Thailand, Malaysia survive the communist insurgency? Would the Philippines even exist as it is now? Would we exist??

 And through it all, its the US that ensured AsiaPac stability, but largely through a consultative and win win process. It could have pursued a predatory "belt and road" of its own but it didnt. They left Philippines when asked... lets see if china leaves sri lanka and return the port or not.

 Throughout the 70 years after WW2, what did china contribute? other than supporting communist dead ends? and threatening Taiwan?

  

And, in the last ten years... china has been stirring shit all over the place... and im not talking about their internal stuff... did the the US ever draw 9 dash lines?

i will take the US 80 years track record anytime. Its has been less than exemplary at times, but always idealistic and malleable through its political checks and balances. Try... just try that with the former USSR... and the current PRC.

Since you mentioned history and China "shit-stirring", I'll have to remind you that US has only 16 years of peace in their entire history.

China? Last war in 1979.

 

The South China Sea is a disputed area. Do you know what's disputed and how many countries are involved?

 

US has never drawn any 9 dash lines because they have never respected any international laws unless it's in their favour to do so. They have threatened the judges that want to trial them for their war crimes. They have also withdrawn from Paris Agreement, WHO etc.

 

What did China contribute? Look at your home! They make things affordable for you, they make things accessible to you.

Look at our shopping streets? They spend money as tourists to keep our economy up, to provide jobs for Singaporeans.

Then again, the idea of China contributions is not focused on you. It's on them. Look at the progress they have made learning from Singapore.

 

Since 1978, China have lifted 850 millions out of poverty (World Bank Stats) and currently with 400 million middle-class. I have seen farmers driving Lexus and buying properties with cash. Farmers! Property paid in full, in cash!

US? Look at the income gap right now. Go drive around LA and have a look at homeless sleeping on sidewalks. If you are feeling adventurous, go to Mississippi.

 

You can take US history anytime since you don't know what shame is.  US entire history is build on human rights abuses, slavery and imperialism. Do you know that??

 

US spent trillions on wars AND LOST. Millions killed and displaced worldwide, their own soldiers died for their politicians, not for freedom or liberty.

Look at Middle East now, is it better than before?

China spent on infrastructure and it's there for the benefits of their people.

 

Since you like history so much, I'll urge you to look deeper and read wider.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Vinyl

[Yewheng]

7 minutes ago, Vinyl said:

Since you mentioned history and China "shit-stirring", I'll have to remind you that US has only 16 years of peace in their entire history.

China? Last war in 1979.

 

The South China Sea is a disputed area. Do you know what's disputed and how many countries are involved?

 

US has never drawn any 9 dash lines because they have never respected any international laws unless it's in their favour to do so. They have threatened the judges that want to trial them for their war crimes. They have also withdrawn from Paris Agreement, WHO etc.

 

What did China contribute? Look at your home! They make things affordable for you, they make things accessible to you.

Look at our shopping streets? They spend money as tourists to keep our economy up, to provide jobs for Singaporeans.

Then again, the idea of China contributions is not focused on you. It's on them. Look at the progress they have made learning from Singapore.

 

Since 1978, China have lifted 850 millions out of poverty (World Bank Stats) and currently with 400 million middle-class. I have seen farmers driving Lexus and buying properties with cash. Farmers! Property paid in full, in cash!

US? Look at the income gap right now. Go drive around LA and have a look at homeless sleeping on sidewalks. If you are feeling adventurous, go to Mississippi.

 

You can take US history anytime since you don't know what shame is.  US entire history is build on human rights abuses, slavery and imperialism. Do you know that??

 

US spent trillions on wars AND LOST. Millions killed and displaced worldwide, their own soldiers died for their politicians, not for freedom or liberty.

Look at Middle East now, is it better than before?

China spent on infrastructure and it's there for the benefits of their people.

 

Since you like history so much, I'll urge you to look deeper and read wider.

 

The problem with America is, they chap chip kar too much on other countries. What other countries do is their own business, please don't step in and make things worst. Go solve their own problem 1st, they can't even solve their own problem and yet still want to chap chip kar on other countries? 

[Vinyl]

7 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

The problem with America is, they chap chip kar too much on other countries. What other countries do is their own business, please don't step in and make things worst. Go solve their own problem 1st, they can't even solve their own problem and yet still want to chap chip kar on other countries? 

You see, some people love America for their values. Liberty and freedom while waging wars across the world.

 

People only see China's actions as a threat. Not as a defensive reaction to threat.

 

The Coming War on China: Pilger says US is real threat in the Pacific, not China

[Yewheng]

7 minutes ago, Vinyl said:

You see, some people love America for their values. Liberty and freedom while waging wars across the world.

 

People only see China's actions as a threat. Not as a defensive reaction to threat.

 

The Coming War on China: Pilger says US is real threat in the Pacific, not China

In fact America is already on war with china.. Just that it is not a physical war itself.. Look at America impost stanchions on China, look at America suka suka say ban this China app suddenly.. Like tick tock say security concern. So it's a kind of different war. 

 

[Playtime]

14 minutes ago, Vinyl said:

Since you mentioned history and China "shit-stirring", I'll have to remind you that US has only 16 years of peace in their entire history.

China? Last war in 1979.

 

The South China Sea is a disputed area. Do you know what's disputed and how many countries are involved?

 

US has never drawn any 9 dash lines because they have never respected any international laws unless it's in their favour to do so. They have threatened the judges that want to trial them for their war crimes. They have also withdrawn from Paris Agreement, WHO etc.

 

What did China contribute? Look at your home! They make things affordable for you, they make things accessible to you.

Look at our shopping streets? They spend money as tourists to keep our economy up, to provide jobs for Singaporeans.

Then again, the idea of China contributions is not focused on you. It's on them. Look at the progress they have made learning from Singapore.

 

Since 1978, China have lifted 850 millions out of poverty (World Bank Stats) and currently with 400 million middle-class. I have seen farmers driving Lexus and buying properties with cash. Farmers! Property paid in full, in cash!

US? Look at the income gap right now. Go drive around LA and have a look at homeless sleeping on sidewalks. If you are feeling adventurous, go to Mississippi.

 

You can take US history anytime since you don't know what shame is.  US entire history is build on human rights abuses, slavery and imperialism. Do you know that??

 

US spent trillions on wars AND LOST. Millions killed and displaced worldwide, their own soldiers died for their politicians, not for freedom or liberty.

Look at Middle East now, is it better than before?

China spent on infrastructure and it's there for the benefits of their people.

 

Since you like history so much, I'll urge you to look deeper and read wider.

 

I said take a Singapore centric assessment. 

Again.. look at the 80yr track record of the US here in apec. it's been OVERWHELMINGLY good for Singapore and the apec region.  Good for China too. And responsible for chinas rise.

Is China a good influence now?? Ask Philippine,  Malaysia,  Indonesia,  Vietnam etc. 

Look at the 10yrs track record of China's "coming out party".

 

You are making personal attacks and allot of conclusions that are wide open .. might want to chill a bit. You are really adopting a  very familiar stereotypical 五毛 style of argument that appears everytime people discuss China. 

[inlinesix]

Rem Terrex?

Quote

Xi’s call to Singapore: a subtle ‘reminder’ about the South China Sea?

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3093313/xis-call-singapore-subtle-reminder-about-south-china-sea

[Playtime]

1 hour ago, Volvobrick said:

20 km of cable with microphone from Changi to Batam will detect everything.

Pretty sure already something there.. from all the major players. 

[Playtime]

3 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Rem Terrex?

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3093313/xis-call-singapore-subtle-reminder-about-south-china-sea

Subtle reminder. 

They apparently don't think it's anything out of the ordinary. 

[Vinyl]

1 minute ago, Playtime said:

I said take a Singapore centric assessment. 

Again.. look at the 80yr track record of the US here in apec. it's been OVERWHELMINGLY good for Singapore and the apec region.  Good for China too. And responsible for chinas rise.

Is China a good influence now?? Ask Philippine,  Malaysia,  Indonesia,  Vietnam etc. 

 Look at the 10yrs track record of China's "coming out party".

  

You are making personal attacks and allot of conclusions that are wide open .. might want to chill a bit. You are really adopting a  very familiar stereotypical 五毛 style of argument that appears everytime people discuss China. 

Oops, sorry if I hurt your feelings. It's very easy to label opposing views as wumao. I can call you a CIA shill for propagating US foreign policies too, but I didn't.

Those are not conclusions. You are free to debate those points unless you have no facts to present.

 

You are looking at 10 years time frame right?

How many wars are China in? How many wars are US in?

Which country is Singapore's largest trading partner?

 

For China's influence, if you need to ask then you have not been reading the news. Philippines under Duterte is China-friendly, likewise for the rest of those nations. You check those countries' largest trading partner and you will get the answer.

Do they like China's being assertive in the region? I guess not. When China is being surrounded by US military bases, it is only logical that they want to take strategic steps to counter. 

 

Can you imagine China building military bases surrounding US?

[Beregond]

8 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

In fact America is already on war with china.. Just that it is not a physical war itself.. Look at America impost stanchions on China, look at America suka suka say ban this China app suddenly.. Like tick tock say security concern. So it's a kind of different war. 

 

US ban china apps is normal. like china ban FB also. any country will ban anything they see as a threat to them, its all within their rights.

the main thing is dun say US  or western system good. or china system good. 

some ppl love amdk, u got to respect that and give it to them , but there are alot other who love atbcb , fair enough .

the main thing is respect 1 another system and way of life. like sg for example. alot of ppl say we are a country that is make up of rules and fine. 

but whats wrong with that, that is the way our ppl choose to live, other just have to respect that, i wont like it if some AMDK or atbcb come interfer with our system also. 

[Vinyl]

8 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Rem Terrex?

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/3093313/xis-call-singapore-subtle-reminder-about-south-china-sea

Do you know that it's normal for leaders to call each other? Like how our own Prime Minister called Dr. Mahathir and subsequently Muyiddhin to congratulate them?

 

Not sure why you like to post opinion pieces. Opinion pieces are not facts.

[Vinyl]

3 minutes ago, Beregond said:

US ban china apps is normal. like china ban FB also. any country will ban anything they see as a threat to them, its all within their rights.

the main thing is dun say US  or western system good. or china system good. 

some ppl love amdk, u got to respect that and give it to them , but there are alot other who love atbcb , fair enough .

the main thing is respect 1 another system and way of life. like sg for example. alot of ppl say we are a country that is make up of rules and fine. 

but whats wrong with that, that is the way our ppl choose to live, other just have to respect that, i wont like it if some AMDK or atbcb come interfer with our system also. 

When did China ban apps like Facebook, Whatsapp? 2009.

What happened in 2009? People don't ask those questions. They think China is being authoritarian when doing a quick search will give them an answer.

 

You see US government doing the same these days. Wanting to ban Tik Tok and WeChat.

It's almost like building a firewall like China. The irony....

[inlinesix]

12 minutes ago, Vinyl said:

Do you know that it's normal for leaders to call each other? Like how our own Prime Minister called Dr. Mahathir and subsequently Muyiddhin to congratulate them?

Not sure why you like to post opinion pieces. Opinion pieces are not facts.

What about Terrex?
 

[Vinyl]

2 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

What about Terrex?
 

I see it as China hinting Singapore in adjusting our foreign policy and not be too US-centric as well as be too supportive of Taiwan.

[Yewheng]

41 minutes ago, Beregond said:

US ban china apps is normal. like china ban FB also. any country will ban anything they see as a threat to them, its all within their rights.

the main thing is dun say US  or western system good. or china system good. 

some ppl love amdk, u got to respect that and give it to them , but there are alot other who love atbcb , fair enough .

the main thing is respect 1 another system and way of life. like sg for example. alot of ppl say we are a country that is make up of rules and fine. 

but whats wrong with that, that is the way our ppl choose to live, other just have to respect that, i wont like it if some AMDK or atbcb come interfer with our system also. 

Yes.. Let each individual counties run their own. Don't step in and make things worst for that country.