MOM takes action against 47 firms & investigating 240 others for possibly favouring foreign job applicants over S'poreans

[Kangadrool]

4 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

haha ... in sinkieland nothing COE cannot resolve

to hire a FT PMET must bid for certificate of eligibility!

but cost will be passed on to end user ... LLST ... lol

At least the numbers are controlled.

[Angcheek]

7 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

haha ... in sinkieland nothing COE cannot resolve

to hire a FT PMET must bid for certificate of eligibility!

but cost will be passed on to end user ... LLST ... lol

I help MOM ... just out a bidding system , who bid highest for the headcount win . When cost become high , tbey will employ local .

Now they got no excuse to say this is a cost centre 

 

1 stone kill 3 stone 😆

Edited August 6, 2020 by Angcheek

[Wt_know]

1 minute ago, Angcheek said:

I help MOM ... just out a bidding system , who bid highest for the headcount win . When cost become high , tbey will employ local .

 

1 stone kill 3 stone 😆

to hire Ramesh must bid Cat B ... no $100K a pop no talk ... lol

[Volvobrick]

1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

So how do u fix the middle age job crisis issue?? Cutting back on ft?

i have some ideas what we should do but I am wondering what do u think we should do?

tear up the CECA? I already said many times, tearing up the ceca has implications on all the other agreements we have done with other countries. To tired to explain again.

If it turns out to be a one side bad deal negotiated by incompetent people from our side, why should the rest of us suffer perpetually for their incompetence? 

Most agreements have exit clauses. Just activate the notice to terminate.  Sillypoor's investments in India mostly lose money till pants drop anyway. There's no incentive for us to continue. 

[Angcheek]

1 minute ago, Wt_know said:

to hire Ramesh must bid Cat B ... no $100K a pop no talk ... lol

tie the categories to the salary range . 

Cat A to Cat Z .... anything under the sun or under the bed also can ✌✌✌🍻🍻🍻

@BanCoe will be under the table 😂

Edited August 6, 2020 by Angcheek

[Voodooman]

17 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

So how do u fix the middle age job crisis issue?? Cutting back on ft?

i have some ideas what we should do but I am wondering what do u think we should do?

tear up the CECA? I already said many times, tearing up the ceca has implications on all the other agreements we have done with other countries. To tired to explain again.

Ideas? Promote village culture? Haha...

You obviously have some good ideas, quick, tell us and maybe I will vote for you to be YCK MP next. 

Err.... We are already in breach of CECA. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/south-asia/india-spore-pact-review-put-on-hold

[Wind30]

33 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Ideas? Promote village culture? Haha...

You obviously have some good ideas, quick, tell us and maybe I will vote for you to be YCK MP next. 

Err.... We are already in breach of CECA. 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/south-asia/india-spore-pact-review-put-on-hold

we already concluded that review in 2018.... if you have read the article, you should realise it is not so easy to "tear" up the CECA....

If I am the government, I would first see who are the people getting retrenched in 40/50 and why. First define the problem, then you can have a solution.

I am from tech industry, the people who get retrenched are those whose industry is no longer competitive in Singapore and close shop, example hard disk companies years ago and now wafer fab industry. 

The way to fix this is not to reduce FT and encourage more companies to close shop, it is to make sure that companies in Singapore stay competitive for as long as possible. That is not easy. Why is TSMC thriving in Taiwan?? They are like the best wafer fab by far and if our chartered semi cond can achieve such a level, there will be no retrenhment and displaced workers...

Solution, get better leaders, chartered CEO was crappy, some stupid guy called Chia who now deputy CEO of Temasek... If you want accountability, I am always amazed how can the guy who led chartered semi into its coffin now do so well in Temasek...

https://m.facebook.com/TAVSingapore/photos/a.360220640705941/478225565572114/?type=3

bottomline, u need to spend lots of Time understanding the problem before working on the solution. but whatever the solution is, it is not hiring less FT...

To me, we have a FAR bigger problem in recycling incompetent leaders in our government linked companies... look at his chia guy, he doing very well, but only in government linked companies... why don't these supposedly talented people get jobs in the private sector??? and why do we keep using these people in extremely important positions?

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wind30

[inlinesix]

8 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

we already concluded that review in 2018.... if you have read the article, you should realise it is not so easy to "tear" up the CECA....

If I am the government, I would first see who are the people getting retrenched in 40/50 and why. First define the problem, then you can have a solution.

I am from tech industry, the people who get retrenched are those whose industry is no longer competitive in Singapore and close shop, example hard disk companies years ago and now wafer fab industry. 

The way to fix this is not to reduce FT and encourage more companies to close shop, it is to make sure that companies in Singapore stay competitive for as long as possible. That is not easy. Why is TSMC thriving in Taiwan?? They are like the best wafer fab by far and if our chartered semi cond can achieve such a level, there will be no retrenhment and displaced workers...

Solution, get better leaders, chartered CEO was crappy, some stupid guy called Chia who now deputy CEO of Temasek... If you want accountability, I am always amazed how can the guy who led chartered semi into its coffin now do so well in Temasek...

https://m.facebook.com/TAVSingapore/photos/a.360220640705941/478225565572114/?type=3

bottomline, u need to spend lots of Time understanding the problem before working on the solution. but whatever the solution is, it is not hiring less FT...

What do TSMC do so good that they thrive?

While our Chartered fail big time.

NOL former CEO also went to another GLC after sold off NOL.  Nothing new.

 

[Ct3833]

10 hours ago, Wind30 said:

honestly, I am not sure if I should be bothered to try to convince you...

You think Singapore is big shot? If those big companies move out what happens? It is not just about jobs, those expats spend their money living in Singapore, from Childcare, rental, F&B. They pay their similar income taxes but receive far less benefits than citizens.

I really feel this anti-FT sentiment will drive singapore to the ground... It is a bit like UK leaving EU. UK is far bigger than singapore so maybe they have a chance. 

I am pretty sure Singapore won't stand a chance if the people are not smart enough to realise we need FT, and not just a few...

So it is true that MOM allows some companies to have a  higher hiring quota ? Instead of  saying  yes they are serious about hiring quota therefore they have this thing called watch list ?

Next, who is anti FTs ? I work with a lot of FTs, they are good,  I dont anti FTs. But many of us here are , or maybe just me, is saying there has to be a right mix, istead of giving unlimited hiring quota to the companies and next start to publicize  on the press to give people an impression that there is this control called watch list. 

Don't bother to convince me because I have seen enough. It is up to PAP to convinced me so that they will get my vote.

As I  have said in an earlier post,  a senior minister commented this issue before. In case anyone miss this. Let me borrow one of  MCF famous quote, ownself pawn ownself ? Cannot be right ? 

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/south-asia/wrong-to-have-total-free-flow-of-people-tharman

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Ct3833

[Kopites]

2 hours ago, Angcheek said:

If they can control COE and cars ... they can manage recruitment.  It is just a matter of they wan or not. 😁 

 

Pro-active or re-active?

The manner they dragged ah Heng to save east coast already show they are the latter. Always opt for a quick fix solution.

 

[Kopites]

2 hours ago, Volvobrick said:

If it turns out to be a one side bad deal negotiated by incompetent people from our side, why should the rest of us suffer perpetually for their incompetence? 

Most agreements have exit clauses. Just activate the notice to terminate.  Sillypoor's investments in India mostly lose money till pants drop anyway. There's no incentive for us to continue. 

How did the Malaysia drag on the RTL construction? No need to tear  up the agreement. Just do likewise Malaysia.

There is no Mr nice guy when come to managing any international deals.  It all boil down to fox versus pussycat. LKY is no pussycat for sure but LHL? I have my reservation.

[Angcheek]

21 minutes ago, Kopites said:

Pro-active or re-active?

The manner they dragged ah Heng to save east coast already show they are the latter. Always opt for a quick fix solution.

 

 

If I look at the whole situation and guess about their initial plan ... what they did was doing a business exchange with the neighbour countries. CECA is one of them . SG take in the FT , in return SG get to do business in those countries.  SG lag manpower in the past , so it was a Win deal for SG . So they thought.

 They failed to manage the situation and worst of all .. failed to see the long term consequences. Business was good ... more companies came ... more demand for people ... so open door big big and welcome all with open arms n legs n give big ang pao. At the same time still can improve GDP and improve votes ... waaaa their plan was 1stone kill 10 ostrich.  Dont play play . All happily celebrating AND earning big bonuses.  Until shit happened and they released many locals  became taxi driver. Funny thing was longlong still got the cheek to to say "we must steal other people's job to survive " 😂  my denture (my 2 front tooth ... Xmas song 😆) almost flew out when i first heard that. 

 

To be fair to our elite , they did try ways to support local employment.  But to my view , Not Enough. Imagine if there was no Grab no Uber .... On the other hand , they also cant cut off the FT drastically.  The impact to domestic will be devastating.  (Many mcfers with multi properties will kpkb and pui chow nua 😄 )   进退两难 . Another interesting point to note is in this GE ... they finally 'give in' to oppo . Knowing their vote is not 'growing' and why not 😆

proactive or reactive ... depends on the idea/plan/policy made.  One plan can't fix all problems . It has to be multiple front . I wont bet on ah heng ... he has no plan 🤐  not even for east coast 😆 

 

 

[Yewheng]

3 hours ago, Angcheek said:

 

If I look at the whole situation and guess about their initial plan ... what they did was doing a business exchange with the neighbour countries. CECA is one of them . SG take in the FT , in return SG get to do business in those countries.  SG lag manpower in the past , so it was a Win deal for SG . So they thought.

 They failed to manage the situation and worst of all .. failed to see the long term consequences. Business was good ... more companies came ... more demand for people ... so open door big big and welcome all with open arms n legs n give big ang pao. At the same time still can improve GDP and improve votes ... waaaa their plan was 1stone kill 10 ostrich.  Dont play play . All happily celebrating AND earning big bonuses.  Until shit happened and they released many locals  became taxi driver. Funny thing was longlong still got the cheek to to say "we must steal other people's job to survive " 😂  my denture (my 2 front tooth ... Xmas song 😆) almost flew out when i first heard that. 

 

To be fair to our elite , they did try ways to support local employment.  But to my view , Not Enough. Imagine if there was no Grab no Uber .... On the other hand , they also cant cut off the FT drastically.  The impact to domestic will be devastating.  (Many mcfers with multi properties will kpkb and pui chow nua 😄 )   进退两难 . Another interesting point to note is in this GE ... they finally 'give in' to oppo . Knowing their vote is not 'growing' and why not 😆

proactive or reactive ... depends on the idea/plan/policy made.  One plan can't fix all problems . It has to be multiple front . I wont bet on ah heng ... he has no plan 🤐  not even for east coast 😆 

 

 

There are many things government do good.. However there are few instances government really miscalculated and unexpected such negative consequences to happen. This is one of them. So now like I said instead of touch ceca.. It seems like government go by another way round to touch on company employment race demographic. Btw just don't know why they never thought of that way before? That is quite puzzled. 

[Lightbringer]

15 hours ago, Wind30 said:

honestly, I am not sure if I should be bothered to try to convince you...

You think Singapore is big shot? If those big companies move out what happens? It is not just about jobs, those expats spend their money living in Singapore, from Childcare, rental, F&B. They pay their similar income taxes but receive far less benefits than citizens.

I really feel this anti-FT sentiment will drive singapore to the ground... It is a bit like UK leaving EU. UK is far bigger than singapore so maybe they have a chance. 

I am pretty sure Singapore won't stand a chance if the people are not smart enough to realise we need FT, and not just a few...

Looks like you have totally missed the point of the FT and expat policies in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

The entire intention of importing foreign know-how and "talents" was to fast-track the development of local industries and technology and to upskill the local workforce and population at large. This is the classical incubation period for new fledging economies to allow them the space, time and technology catch up with their more developed peers. The FT policy was never meant to replace or significantly supplement the local workforce or to boost local spending as you've claimed. However over the decades, the Govt has largely failed at growing and sustaining sufficient local enterprises (most probably because of the GLC structure and brain drain from the private sector to the public sector), and become increasingly reliant on aggressively expanding the incubation phase in order to sustain the all-important GDP growth rate and other related KPIs. 

A parallel example which had more success in the 80s and 90s is China, whereby they invited many foreign firms in and actively "learnt" (or stole/copied) their technology which was then rapidly channelled into both state-owned and private enterprises within 2 short decades. Solar, automobiles, IT, construction, chemicals, biomedical.. you name it, China has very strong locally-grown enterprises across major sectors which are not just globally competitive but are also global leaders in some cases.

Maybe it's time you open your blinkered eyes and take a more global view and develop a deeper understanding of economics, before launching into condescending statements which belittle the capabilities of your own countrymen by implicitly suggesting that the majority of Singaporeans are unable to do what FTs can do (except for a elite few like yourself). 

[Lightbringer]

12 hours ago, Wind30 said:

sigh.... just read the posts below.... 

I ask you what is enough?? Nothing is ever enough. People want great jobs for all the locals and everyone will get good pay, prefably with less FT so we don't have to share MRT with them. How are you going to generate the jobs? if not attracting MNCs? What people should be asking is what are the alternatives? Is the other path really better?

-------------------------------------------

"This problem has been there for years, MOM has been keeping companies in watch list but does nothing about it except continue watching. Every year they report thousands of companies are added into  their watch list, but what have they done about it other then watching? If they are serious about it, we wouldn't have been in the situation today  , including the GE results.  

https://mothership.sg/2020/08/mom-investigate-employers-pre-selecting-foreigners/"

 

"Don't forget that a WIN for Singapore is not just about being economically relevant globally, but it must also be a societal WIN for Singapore. At what cost is that to your society here in Singapore? Is that even healthy and sustainable, to a prosperous Singapore in the long run?

In your own words, you thought the govt will have *thought of ways to encourage to local hiring. They didn't, thus the damage control we are seeing these few days after GE. You  have the sense to observe the furore from some of the general public over this, and this is already the tip of the iceberg in terms of unhappiness within the society. This is the society cost which you didn't even consider in your arguments. 

Asking the people to be objective when the govt's objective isn't on helping it's own is a big oxymoron. "

 

  

 

BTW going through this forum, I realise your posts are super whiny in nature. You keep on "sigh" here and there, and dropping lame remarks like "i'm tired of explaining" or "i don't know why you don't get it" like a guniang. Can you man up a little and stop being such a whiny little prick? It's really annoying.

The reality is you are a poor communicator with a flimsy grasp of complex issues and lacking crucial perspective because you lack depth of knowledge. You are also constantly harping on your limited anecdotal experiences as if you are some CEO with a history of making executive decisions (FYI sitting in on interviews doesn't means you are involved in hiring decisions ok?) and then applying these as if they were accurate representations of the reality at hand. 

If you find that nobody seems to agree with your "views" and "common sense" that you keep harping on, maybe the problem is with your message and communications, not with your audience. 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lightbringer

[Lightbringer]

14 hours ago, Fcw75 said:

The HR manager should never be a foreigner. 

It's like asking someone to be the gatekeeper but that someone is from the same village that he is suppose to prevent from coming in. 

Agreed. It's time the HR profession itself should be regulated - it's too much of a Wild Wild West right now. Many HR depts even in large MNCs lack professionalism and accountability. There should be a professional board for certified HR practitioners coupled with a Code of Conduct together with proper accountability.

[Lightbringer]

8 hours ago, Wind30 said:

So how do u fix the middle age job crisis issue?? Cutting back on ft?

i have some ideas what we should do but I am wondering what do u think we should do?

tear up the CECA? I already said many times, tearing up the ceca has implications on all the other agreements we have done with other countries. To tired to explain again.

You do realise that renegotiations of agreements is like one of the major reasons why diplomats exists, right?

And such renegotiations happen all the time - you just don't hear about them. 

If the CECA becomes a clear reason why the electorate are abandoning PAP in droves, you can be sure a council will be set up to take a full review of the CECA and whether it is still aligned with our national interests and after an appropriate amount of time, MFA will tear up the agreement quietly. Only the naive would believe that Singapore is held hostage by this agreement to the point where it is a national sacred cow.

And thanks for being "to tired to explain again" because you are really doing a horrid job of it. Please stay "to tired" on this issue and spare us your naivete. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lightbringer

[Lethalstrike]

2 hours ago, Lightbringer said:

You do realise that renegotiations of agreements is like one of the major reasons why diplomats exists, right?

And such renegotiations happen all the time - you just don't hear about them. 

If the CECA becomes a clear reason why the electorate are abandoning PAP in droves, you can be sure a council will be set up to take a full review of the CECA and whether it is still aligned with our national interests and after an appropriate amount of time, MFA will tear up the agreement quietly. Only the naive would believe that Singapore is held hostage by this agreement to the point where it is a national sacred cow.

And thanks for being "to tired to explain again" because you are really doing a horrid job of it. Please stay "to tired" on this issue and spare us your naivete. 

Couldn't had phrased it better myself.

It's obvious when one couldn't substantiate his reasonings enough over a complex issue and took the moral high horse to say enough was done explaining, while insisting it's the only way forward when it's already proven the blatant influx of FTs will do us in over the long run. We just need to see it's impact on our "progress" since the gates were opened wide.

You raised the good point about why FTs are encouraged here at the first place. That is to raise the level of local expertise and not to replace them wholesale. Somewhere down the line, this was mismanaged and I would say even an unwillingness to correct course fully, due to the short term economic benefits it brought. We can't keep relying on easier fix such steroids or drugs for long term growth. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Lethalstrike