MOM takes action against 47 firms & investigating 240 others for possibly favouring foreign job applicants over S'poreans

[Wt_know]

1 hour ago, Lethalstrike said:

Couldn't had phrased it better myself.

You raised the good point about why FTs are encouraged here at the first place. That is to raise the level of local expertise and not to replace them wholesale. Somewhere down the line, this was mismanaged and I would say even an unwillingness to correct course fully, due to the short term economic benefits it brought. We can't keep relying on easier fix such steroids or drugs for long term growth. 

it is what it is ....  

1. the initial idea is good. the intention is right which is to supplement and raise local expertise. but because of mismanagement it has become quoting "Charles Yeo ...."

2. short term economic benefits (boost) has caused long term pain and now it's difficult to recourse 

3. it was never acknowledged as a chronic problem and yet news and social media reported otherwise ... again and again

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Wt_know

[Fcw75]

Locals already very dulan with CECA long time ago but that CB Ramesh probably broke the camel’s back with his arrogant attitude.

 

[Victor68]

12 hours ago, Wind30 said:

If your stand is government could have done better, then what should they have done instead? 
The most common sentiment I see is government should do better, but how? Nobody knows. 
I don’t work in hr, I don’t know how many ft... we want to hire local for sure... biased towards local

I thought we have assembled the best paid and most qualified team that cost tax payers multi million a month, have they said they run out of solutions?

For every problem,  first you need to acknowledge. If you don't think it is a problem,  then there is nothing to resolve. This first step comes from a cheapo citizen and is free. 

[Wind30]

4 hours ago, Lightbringer said:

You do realise that renegotiations of agreements is like one of the major reasons why diplomats exists, right?

And such renegotiations happen all the time - you just don't hear about them. 

If the CECA becomes a clear reason why the electorate are abandoning PAP in droves, you can be sure a council will be set up to take a full review of the CECA and whether it is still aligned with our national interests and after an appropriate amount of time, MFA will tear up the agreement quietly. Only the naive would believe that Singapore is held hostage by this agreement to the point where it is a national sacred cow.

And thanks for being "to tired to explain again" because you are really doing a horrid job of it. Please stay "to tired" on this issue and spare us your naivete. 

The post I was refering to is asking to "tear up the CECA". Which i assume is doing it unilaterally. you are not even reading it right. 

If it is about renegotiating, I am perfectly fine with it. I think you never follow MCF for a long time. Then let me link you to the previous discussions since you missed previous discussion. People here were complaining why CCS say we need to offer something to India to renegotiate CECA...

BTW, how do you tear up the CECA quietly??? Can Malaysia tear up the water agreement quietly once they feel it is not worth their while?

Apologies for the tone though. I do think it was unwarranted as I can't expect everyone to have read all my posts... It must have sounded very whiny. I should just give up or explain again if I want to post. 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Wind30

[Scion]

Singapore is in the mid-life crisis stage

during its younger days, its stamina built up very fast, could cheong and cheong

then it slowed down

and it started to take some drugs to boost and maintain its stamina

however the drug got side effects, and now it tries to quit... but it's tough and painful

[Weez911]

13 minutes ago, Scion said:

Singapore is in the mid-life crisis stage

during its younger days, its stamina built up very fast, could cheong and cheong

then it slowed down

and it started to take some drugs to boost and maintain its stamina

however the drug got side effects, and now it tries to quit... but it's tough and painful

It is not Singapore that is mid-life crisis - it is PAP.

Singapore is not PAP.

[Voodooman]

12 hours ago, Wind30 said:

we already concluded that review in 2018.... if you have read the article, you should realise it is not so easy to "tear" up the CECA....

If I am the government, I would first see who are the people getting retrenched in 40/50 and why. First define the problem, then you can have a solution.

I am from tech industry, the people who get retrenched are those whose industry is no longer competitive in Singapore and close shop, example hard disk companies years ago and now wafer fab industry. 

The way to fix this is not to reduce FT and encourage more companies to close shop, it is to make sure that companies in Singapore stay competitive for as long as possible. That is not easy. Why is TSMC thriving in Taiwan?? They are like the best wafer fab by far and if our chartered semi cond can achieve such a level, there will be no retrenhment and displaced workers...

Solution, get better leaders, chartered CEO was crappy, some stupid guy called Chia who now deputy CEO of Temasek... If you want accountability, I am always amazed how can the guy who led chartered semi into its coffin now do so well in Temasek...

https://m.facebook.com/TAVSingapore/photos/a.360220640705941/478225565572114/?type=3

bottomline, u need to spend lots of Time understanding the problem before working on the solution.

Thanks for sharing.

But we are still in breach of CECA, otherwise we would have been flooded by now. It is just maths.

Agree our business needs to be more competitive but the scenario you drew out is happening in many thriving industries too.  The issue is complex but it really boils down to demand and supply.  

Don't use the stupid PMET unemployment rate as a guide to manage supply, with so many underemployed and "retired" locals (many have given up), it is a joke. Fact is there are no quota for EP, so supply is always more than demand.

Retraining, incentives, quotas,.... Start by setting an example with G hiring older workers. 

[Windwaver]

16 hours ago, Voodooman said:

10-12 years ago, I was really annoyed with PAP's open leg policy.  They have however tried very hard to manage the FT issue after GE2011.  I agree with you we need some FT to grow the pie.  

The FT are however here to supplement us and perhaps push us to move up the value chains, not to replace us.  We need good jobs (not Grab drivers and property agents please), not more handouts. 

I think they should tear up CECA coz the maths just can't work for us (1% of 1.4b people is 14m, lots more can qualify for EP). 

G needs to fix the middle age job crisis issue, otherwise the FT issue is going to continue to haunt them.  As you can see, many PMET in their 40s and 50s here are vehemently against FT, the pain and fear are real. 

Have we achieve a balance? 

You're quite correct on the timeline. It's basically about 2 generations of Singaporeans that have been screwed over, by now their primes are over (those which you rightfully pointed out 40s/50s, maybe some even late 30s).

So now, the much of the fire fighting is the strong push for re-training/re-skilling by SSG and WSG. The problem however is not so simple,

1) Companies are used to low wages
2) Many like to hire their own village (from top to bottom)
3) Over a period of 10~20 years, distrust in our society has been rooted
4) Over the same period of time, insufficient knowledge and leadership/skills has not benefited Singaporeans
5) Hiring middle age blue/white collar Singaporeans that have been retrained is an extremely uphill battle as organizations just want younger people

Point number 3 to me is a very serious problem as it relates to the stability of the core of a country.

Just talk to people around you, how many really trust the person working with him/her? Do you trust your neighbors as much compared to 20 years ago?

Even worse is if some of the younger hiring managers are willing to hire middle age workers, will they consider a short course of re-training reasonable? Even if they are hired, many are also segregated from the younger teammates.

See how bad the 'dis-trust' issue is on the ground?

 

[Yewheng]

1 hour ago, Wt_know said:

it is what it is ....  

1. the initial idea is good. the intention is right which is to supplement and raise local expertise. but because of mismanagement it has become quoting "Charles Yeo ...."

2. short term economic benefits (boost) has caused long term pain and now it's difficult to recourse 

3. it was never acknowledged as a chronic problem and yet news and social media reported otherwise ... again and again

 

Ya.. I think the thinking is of coz for good for singapore. Just that maybe our government maybe really did not forsee such negative impact on the outcome. They thought that everything is under control, all these negative voices are just minority where they look at gdp and jobs created to locals are there. So should be able to managed. 

 

But who knows.. Another aspect is quite interesting.. Like yesterday article that those companies on the watchlist for discriminate hiring cited reason that they do not know how to tap into local workforce, they thought local workforce do not have the Skillset and etc. This led me to thinking, maybe government should look into how to make it even easier from companies to put up advertisement on our local job search portal and etc. Maybe even give the link to them on where they can put up in job search portal when they shift or expend their businesses here to Singapore. Maybe also to talk about the process of going through that local job portal. This is so that it is idoit proof, no need Google search or anything at all and is given the link and process(although they mightbe giving excuse, but then these excuse might have some valid point actually). 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Yewheng

[inlinesix]

1 minute ago, Yewheng said:

Ya.. I think the thinking is of coz for good for singapore. Just that maybe our government maybe really did not forsee such negative impact on the outcome. They thought that everything is under control, all these negative voices are just minority where they look at gdp and jobs created to locals are there. So should be able to managed. 

 

But who knows.. Another aspect is quite interesting.. Like yesterday article that those companies on the watchlist for discriminate hiring cited reason that they do not know how to tap into local workforce, they thought local workforce do not have the Skillset and etc. This led me to thinking, maybe government should look into how to make it even easier from companies to put up advertisement on our local job search portal and etc. Maybe even give the link to them on where they can put up in job search portal when they shift or expend their businesses here to Singapore. (although they mightbe giving excuse, but then these excuse might have some valid point actually). 

This kind of BS you also believe 

🤦‍♀️

[Weez911]

All it takes is a Sengkang 2020?

============================

https://www.onlinecitizenasia.com/2020/08/06/netizens-question-mom-why-now-only-realise-for-the-high-concentration-of-pmets-from-single-nationalities-as-all-the-employment-passes-are-issued-and-approved-by-mom/

Netizens wonder why MOM only take action now as the issue of higher number of foreign PMETs is not a new thing in Singapore

A bunch of critical comments were emerged on the social media after the MOM made such announcements. Penning their thoughts on the Facebook page of The Straits Times and Channel News Asia, the netizens wondered why MOM only realised this issue presently, given that the issue of unfair hiring practices have been happening for a long time.

They also pointed out that all the EP and work passes are issued and approved by MOM, questioning whether MOM have chose to “sweep the issue under carpet” or did all these just for "a drama and a wayang”.

A handful of netizens also called out the MOM to take immediate actions instead of just placing the errant employers on the watchlist.

A couple of netizens also criticised MOM for “double standard” on setting the quota and levy for work permit but not for EP.

 

[Wt_know]

8 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

This kind of BS you also believe 

🤦‍♀️

like ERP is the magic pill to solve traffic congestion ....   

just look at all expressway during morning and evening peak and where got jam ...   

Edited August 7, 2020 by Wt_know

[inlinesix]

Just now, Wt_know said:

like ERP is the magic pill to solve traffic congestion ....  

just look at all expressway during morning and evening peak and where got jam ...  

If they follow my prescription, confirm magic pill.

[Yewheng]

7 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

This kind of BS you also believe 

🤦‍♀️

That's why I say although it's an excuse.. However these excuse actually do have valid point.. Maybe say out of 100 companies.. Say this 1 company really don't know anything at all? We need to have idiot proof process to let them know.. So that these companies will not be able to give that excuse and at the same time no need for them to time waste to find out local job hiring process.. Everything is given. 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Yewheng

[Fcw75]

2 minutes ago, Weez911 said:

All it takes is a Sengkang 2020?

============================

https://www.onlinecitizenasia.com/2020/08/06/netizens-question-mom-why-now-only-realise-for-the-high-concentration-of-pmets-from-single-nationalities-as-all-the-employment-passes-are-issued-and-approved-by-mom/

Netizens wonder why MOM only take action now as the issue of higher number of foreign PMETs is not a new thing in Singapore

A bunch of critical comments were emerged on the social media after the MOM made such announcements. Penning their thoughts on the Facebook page of The Straits Times and Channel News Asia, the netizens wondered why MOM only realised this issue presently, given that the issue of unfair hiring practices have been happening for a long time.

They also pointed out that all the EP and work passes are issued and approved by MOM, questioning whether MOM have chose to “sweep the issue under carpet” or did all these just for "a drama and a wayang”.

A handful of netizens also called out the MOM to take immediate actions instead of just placing the errant employers on the watchlist.

A couple of netizens also criticised MOM for “double standard” on setting the quota and levy for work permit but not for EP.

 

I think we need more. 

West Coast 2025, East Coast 2025...

[Sdf4786k]

4 minutes ago, Weez911 said:

All it takes is a Sengkang 2020?

============================

https://www.onlinecitizenasia.com/2020/08/06/netizens-question-mom-why-now-only-realise-for-the-high-concentration-of-pmets-from-single-nationalities-as-all-the-employment-passes-are-issued-and-approved-by-mom/

Netizens wonder why MOM only take action now as the issue of higher number of foreign PMETs is not a new thing in Singapore

A bunch of critical comments were emerged on the social media after the MOM made such announcements. Penning their thoughts on the Facebook page of The Straits Times and Channel News Asia, the netizens wondered why MOM only realised this issue presently, given that the issue of unfair hiring practices have been happening for a long time.

They also pointed out that all the EP and work passes are issued and approved by MOM, questioning whether MOM have chose to “sweep the issue under carpet” or did all these just for "a drama and a wayang”.

A handful of netizens also called out the MOM to take immediate actions instead of just placing the errant employers on the watchlist.

A couple of netizens also criticised MOM for “double standard” on setting the quota and levy for work permit but not for EP.

 

I suppose someone need to do an audit on the process of rubber stamping the EP passes.

Many families and livelihood has been destroyed and making meritocracy a joke.

[Volvobrick]

10 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

 

But who knows.. Another aspect is quite interesting.. Like yesterday article that those companies on the watchlist for discriminate hiring cited reason that they do not know how to tap into local workforce, they thought local workforce do not have the Skillset and etc. This led me to thinking, maybe government should look into how to make it even easier from companies to put up advertisement on our local job search portal and etc. Maybe even give the link to them on where they can put up in job search portal when they shift or expend their businesses here to Singapore. (although they mightbe giving excuse, but then these excuse might have some valid point actually). 

You actually believe the excuse they don't know how? 

Next excuse would be they don't know there's such a thing as Singaporean PMETs.... 

[inlinesix]

1 minute ago, Yewheng said:

That's why I say although it's an excuse.. However these excuse actually do have valid point.. Maybe say out of 100 companies.. Say this 1 company really don't know anything at all? We need to have idiot proof process to let them know.. So that these companies will not be able to give that excuse and at the same time no need for them to time waste to find out local job hiring process.. Everything is given. 

If HR professional needs idiot proof process, they should be fired.

It can be as simple as writing to MOM to find the resources.