MOM takes action against 47 firms & investigating 240 others for possibly favouring foreign job applicants over S'poreans

[Windwaver]

14 hours ago, Fcw75 said:

Nowadays take a rock and throw also will hit a degree holder.

Learn some skills better. 

Bro, you too nice, I throw my pi sai will also hit a degree holder

So where is that 'no need degree' to survive in Singapore thingy?

And every school is a good school? 

 

[Playtime]

14 hours ago, Fcw75 said:

Nowadays take a rock and throw also will hit a degree holder.

Learn some skills better. 

Degree holder... but not Singaporean ? 🤣

[Fcw75]

7 hours ago, Picnic06-Biante15 said:

You the regular customer there ......  

Sure lar..... upstair 75% occupants are lawyer offices. After a day in court, go spa for a massage.  

Was with one for few years. 😬

Edited August 8, 2020 by Fcw75

[SuPerBoRed]

19 hours ago, Wt_know said:

it is what it is ... say no more 

I can very safely say there is no such Bank in sgp with such a trading floor

[13177]

16 hours ago, Victor68 said:

Singapore is not ready for this yet. With scholars and generals running the show, focus is always on academics, theories. Even the selection of MP are academic based. The mindset change will take a long time. We did want to try the german education system in the early 70 but top people are from the traditional source. How to accept that technical skill are equivalent leh?

Maybe degree is useful if you want to become MP or work in govt sector. For private companies, many of them would not care if you have a degree or not. Esp if your degree is not from local uni or overseas top uni.

Mostly would only look at your work experience, skills, knowledge and performance. If you are good, even you do not have a degree can also climb to the top in the company.

[Sdf4786k]

On 8/7/2020 at 9:15 AM, inlinesix said:

If HR professional needs idiot proof process, they should be fired.

It can be as simple as writing to MOM to find the resources.

You do know that they use workday - enterprise software to puck out the job applicants from the job placement to bypass the accountability of why singaporean are not hired right. ?

jobsbank and WSG will advise you that it’s because SEO on your resume rule out a match. 
 

and that my friends is how a bypass of the job banks is done. 
 

and is this going to be WSG fault? Of course not . The govtect and the vendor engage to create the WSG portal rule out that it’s just a system fault . Vendor name starts with A.

so the question than is, whose at fault and can anyone be sued? The answer is NO. And hence , if you threaten to publish, there is going to be class action lawsuit from PDPA all the way to showing proof where the accountability and fault lies in.

We in a different world now than the usual singaporean context of complain for the sake of complaining with no outcome.

so far , no one (Even MOM) has asked that all affected applicants to come forward and sue the company. all 1247 company should have a class action lawsuit against them to show that our nation belief of a colorblind nation of hiring is what singaporean stands for. Regardless of race language or religion.

If the labour union does that , I am very sure 5 years down the road he will be re elected

At least that’s my expectations of redeeming the sins of the shoddy management created in families and life life affected as well as economic well being.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Sdf4786k

[Spurman]

Wan2 hear juicy stories on mycareerfuture leh

 

[Lightbringer]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:29 AM, Wind30 said:

The post I was refering to is asking to "tear up the CECA". Which i assume is doing it unilaterally. you are not even reading it right. 

If it is about renegotiating, I am perfectly fine with it. I think you never follow MCF for a long time. Then let me link you to the previous discussions since you missed previous discussion. People here were complaining why CCS say we need to offer something to India to renegotiate CECA...

 BTW, how do you tear up the CECA quietly??? Can Malaysia tear up the water agreement quietly once they feel it is not worth their while?

Apologies for the tone though. I do think it was unwarranted as I can't expect everyone to have read all my posts... It must have sounded very whiny. I should just give up or explain again if I want to post. 

  

 

 

You can't be comparing the water agreement with a trade deal. There are many degrees of international agreements that have different types of consequences and recognition. 

For example, the water agreement is a national sacred cow which the SG govt has drawn the red line multiple times that if it is voided or infringed on in any ways, it would be taken as an act of military aggression. Other similar international agreements are the Warsaw Pact and the NATO agreement, the Nuclear Non-profileration treat, etc which have similar consequences if infringed or broken.

The CECA on the other hand is a trade deal which if infringed or voided, the consequences would be arbitration by WTO since both SG and India are WTO signatories. This is also why USA under Trump was able to force Canada and Mexico to the negotiating table and cede concessions because they knew USA would just tear up NAFTA without major consequences (beyond the economic losses arising from the withdrawal of the free trade pact), and keeping the NAFTA with concessions was better off than them compared to no NAFTA at all. As in trade deals, might makes right, and the parties with the most to lose can and often do walk away from the agreement completely while leaving the other parties with the costs and effort of chasing after the deal or seeking "compensation" - a process that often comes to naught.

Same goes for Singapore - it is all a matter of trade-offs and costs. Right now the powers-that-be do not feel the pain from CECA because they are not losing votes or power despite the huge unpopularity of the trade pact. And the trade pact itself allows SG companies to enter the protected Indian market, hence to the PAP it is a worthwhile trade-offs. For the common folks, we see none of the benefits of improved entry to the Indian market and yet we bear the full brunt of the consequences - both short-term and long-term -  hence its unpopularity amongst most people (except for businesses which had benefited from easier access to the Indian market obviously). If PAP starts feeling the pain when widespread anger over the CECA agreement starts threatening its supermajority or even better its simply majority, you can be sure they would take their chances in the toothless WTO arbitration panels instead of facing severe electoral losses at the ballot boxes. They know India isn't going to send bombers or warships to SG for this pathetic agreement when they are facing nuclear-tipped missiles from Pakistan and Chinese commandos up in the heights of the Himalayas. The Indians have better and more important priorities to focus on and any fresh diplomat worth his salt can see and would exploit that easily. End of the day , it's all about incentives and what is in their best interest. Simple human logic.

In short, the context matters. Drawing analogies between CECA and the water agreement is absurd because of the different scale and consequences involved. Renegotiation and breaking of trade pacts happens all the time, typically as a package deal between both countries (you can study how SG and MY renegotiated the RTS link and high-speed rail timeline and compensation issue as a case study). 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Lightbringer

[Victor68]

On 8/7/2020 at 3:43 PM, 13177 said:

I agree dont go for degree, esp if your degree is not from local uni. Better study ITE good enough liao, since having a degree doesnt mean high salary. 

Singapore is not ready for this yet. With scholars and generals running the show, focus is always on academics, theories. Even the selection of MP are academic based. The mindset change will take a long time. We did want to try the german education system in the early 70 but top people are from the traditional source. How to accept that technical skill are equivalent leh?

[Windwaver]

2 hours ago, Spurman said:

Wan2 hear juicy stories on mycareerfuture mycareerNofuture leh

 

Got, future only for those until late 30s , after that is word in bold.

 

[Ender]

On 8/7/2020 at 4:18 PM, Carbon82 said:

Spoiler

 

The first steps to correcting the issues should be:

• revisit the criteria for quota system (WP, S-Pass, etc.)
• re-evaluate the needs for quota system for Employment Pass
• reconsider the needs for establishing min. wages for various positions

Someone mentioned here that companies have to adhere to workers quota pre-determined by MOM when hiring foreigners, and let me share my view why it don't works most of the time.

First, the law does not spell out explicitly the component for Singaporean and SPR. They can be from the ground level (e.g. cleaner, production operator, technician, etc.) to supervisory and management level (which usually cost more than foreigner). So technically, a company can hire 10 local for lower position, e.g. production operator, admin assistance at a cost not significantly higher than FW (basic salary + levy), and then use the quota on a foreign section leader / supervisor under the S-Pass scheme. So Singaporean ended up with low salaried job, while supervisory role landed with foreigners.

That is not the biggest loopholes though. Next level up (for position earning $3,900 p.m. and above), the management role, there is NO quota or levy for hiring foreigner!! Source: Key facts on Employment Pass. Look at the List of standard occupations for Employment Pass, basically all roles are there, and this is the very reason why we are seeing so many foreign managers in HR, finance, production, quality, engineering, IT department, etc.

If you bother to check out https://www.mycareersfuture.sg/, you can still find employer offering not more than $4,000 p.m. for manager role, which they can't even get a foreigner to fill because of salary requirement (under Employment Pass). BTW, I have many stories to share about My Careers Future portal, which I share keep it for another day.

And before I conclude the post, lumping SPR into the local resident pool is another area that needed to be reviewed urgently. For those with foreign colleagues, check out with them how "difficult" it is to apply for PR,

 

and how the HR goes the extra miles to submit supporting documents willingly to ICA and the relevant authorities...

Reminds me of the "on behest" MP from AMK GRC..

[Fcw75]

From Facebook:

[Yewheng]

 

Jia lat.. Hope we do not pass down anti discriminate law. If this law gets passed down, = gg for us.. Coz once anti discriminate law get passed down, many small businesses will want to hire less of it due to scared of legal cost.. Legal cost is the one that will put off hiring not discrimination.. 

[Wind30]

10 hours ago, Lightbringer said:

You can't be comparing the water agreement with a trade deal. There are many degrees of international agreements that have different types of consequences and recognition. 

For example, the water agreement is a national sacred cow which the SG govt has drawn the red line multiple times that if it is voided or infringed on in any ways, it would be taken as an act of military aggression. Other similar international agreements are the Warsaw Pact and the NATO agreement, the Nuclear Non-profileration treat, etc which have similar consequences if infringed or broken.

The CECA on the other hand is a trade deal which if infringed or voided, the consequences would be arbitration by WTO since both SG and India are WTO signatories. This is also why USA under Trump was able to force Canada and Mexico to the negotiating table and cede concessions because they knew USA would just tear up NAFTA without major consequences (beyond the economic losses arising from the withdrawal of the free trade pact), and keeping the NAFTA with concessions was better off than them compared to no NAFTA at all. As in trade deals, might makes right, and the parties with the most to lose can and often do walk away from the agreement completely while leaving the other parties with the costs and effort of chasing after the deal or seeking "compensation" - a process that often comes to naught.

Same goes for Singapore - it is all a matter of trade-offs and costs. Right now the powers-that-be do not feel the pain from CECA because they are not losing votes or power despite the huge unpopularity of the trade pact. And the trade pact itself allows SG companies to enter the protected Indian market, hence to the PAP it is a worthwhile trade-offs. For the common folks, we see none of the benefits of improved entry to the Indian market and yet we bear the full brunt of the consequences - both short-term and long-term -  hence its unpopularity amongst most people (except for businesses which had benefited from easier access to the Indian market obviously). If PAP starts feeling the pain when widespread anger over the CECA agreement starts threatening its supermajority or even better its simply majority, you can be sure they would take their chances in the toothless WTO arbitration panels instead of facing severe electoral losses at the ballot boxes. They know India isn't going to send bombers or warships to SG for this pathetic agreement when they are facing nuclear-tipped missiles from Pakistan and Chinese commandos up in the heights of the Himalayas. The Indians have better and more important priorities to focus on and any fresh diplomat worth his salt can see and would exploit that easily. End of the day , it's all about incentives and what is in their best interest. Simple human logic.

In short, the context matters. Drawing analogies between CECA and the water agreement is absurd because of the different scale and consequences involved. Renegotiation and breaking of trade pacts happens all the time, typically as a package deal between both countries (you can study how SG and MY renegotiated the RTS link and high-speed rail timeline and compensation issue as a case study). 

 

The "national scared cow" is a rhetoric that singapore uses ... do you see Malaysia treat the water agreement in similar terms? USA is talking about withdrawing from Nato actually.

I use the Water agreement because the consequences is extremely severe if Malaysia back out of it unilaterally but fundamentally, there is no difference as it is a contract signed by two countries. However much Singapore tries to hype it. 

If you want to view trade agreements context only which I think is reasonable, then ask yourself, do Singapore need free trade agreements.? If you say no, our discussion ends here I guess. We have a TOTAL of 18 FTA agreements with various countries. It is not about the impact of breaking one agreement but rather the value of our word in international negotiations. I think LKY has repeatedly said that Singapore is small but punch above its weight internationally, because people trust us. When we say something, we do it. We negotiate in good faith and we stick to it. When any of you start talking about breaking of CECA unilaterally, you should think about how much that "word" is of value, because once you do it, nobody trusts you.

You said renegotiating and breaking of trade packs happens all the time. The RTS between SG and MY is about renegotiating. MY is paying us for cost and damages. Even Malaysia does not break out of a signed contract unilaterally and ask us to chase compensation in court/WTO...They follow the terms and discuss damages. Do you people know what are the damages for breaking of CECA??? or are we still talking about tearing up the CECA unilaterally and let India chase compensation. If that is the case, nobody will want to negotiate with Singapore on future trade deals or they will do the same to us. 

Please don't lump both of them together again. Have you have any examples of countries "with the most to lose can and often do walk away from the agreement completely while leaving the other parties with the costs and effort of chasing after the deal or seeking "compensation"? Other than USA because we are not USA... 

My question to you is simple, is it ok for Singapore to break of CECA unilaterally like what some MCFers are asking for?

I am going to repeat myself AGAIN. It is not about renegotiating the CECA. We have renegotiated the CECA with India twice already. you keep mixing them up (bringing up RTS renegotiation) even though I have said it in my previous post I am ok with renegotiation. 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Wind30

[Yewheng]

Like it or not.. From what I see our government seems like will not touch ceca at all even if there is huge public outcry. There is however one exception, it is when our government exhausted all of their thinkings and action to tackle it from another angle but failed and the situation get worsen. Then yes, they would have no choice but to touch on ceca. 

 

So for now, mom is putting these firms on watchlist that hires a large percentage of the workforce that is of the same nationality. They think this action might work, so let's not touch ceca 1st. Coz if this work, then okay what, the agreement is intact and yet able to solve these companies hiring a large percentage of the workforce that is of the same nationality.

 

Will it work or will it not? This one need time.. So yeah.. The result will not be 1 Yr later.. It mightbe 2 or 3 yrs or even 4 to 5 yrs for the result to be seen. So let's see how it goes.. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Yewheng

[Weez911]

7 hours ago, Fcw75 said:

From Facebook:

The voters have been "speaking out loud" since 2011 (2015 was an anomaly due to milking of a dead man). The pap will continue to face enormous pressure every election when news or reports of "whole workplace is filled of a certain nationality" emerge. It will only get worse for them if nothing is done to fix this. 

I hope they continue to open the floodgate though, simply because I want them to lose in 2025.

[Wind30]

I can't wait for MOM to release the names of those companies who hire one nationality. That I feel is just unacceptable. 

We keep hearing about these companies but no one seem to work in any of these companies 🙂 at least in MCF.

If MOM releases the names, I think people can talk more freely in forums like this. They won't be the one saboing their own companies...

Edited August 9, 2020 by Wind30

[Freeder]

34 minutes ago, Weez911 said:

The voters have been "speaking out loud" since 2011 (2015 was an anomaly due to milking of a dead man). The pap will continue to face enormous pressure every election when news or reports of "whole workplace is filled of a certain nationality" emerge. It will only get worse for them if nothing is done to fix this. 

I hope they continue to open the floodgate though, simply because I want them to lose in 2025.

First hand sexperience working with all these shit... Literally, full of shit...

Really needs lotsa patience of a Pastor to deal with all these shit coz that’s in their DNA ...

Really waste of time and energy dealing with all these shameless scums...

U will be mentally drained after a 1 hr meeting session with them.. I soompar🙇‍♀️

Sometimes, I’m wondering whether am I working or in a drama workshop ....

Dun know why our Gov luv them so much?

Really Flummoxed & Speechless ...

Edited August 9, 2020 by Freeder