2020 United States Presidential Election

[Beregond]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/us-president-election-debate-rules-commission-change-trump-13170454

The first presidential debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden was a disaster. The next one needs to have stronger safeguards against Trump’s fraudulent claims attacking the integrity of the election, say Steven R Okun and Thurgood Marshall Jr..

they still want to do another round??🤣

if i am biden i confirm reject

[ToyotaShuttle]

if you reject you look weak and scared.

[Vinyl]

9 hours ago, Turboflat4 said:

I don't see what the relevance of the date of my last trip to the US is. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what inference you're leading me toward - what great insight, what earth-shattering epiphany - could you possibly expect one to fathom from a short trip to a single area in a vast and heterogeneous country? Pray tell.

Of course, I don't expect a meaningful answer from you, because that was just a debating potshot, wasn't it? And not a very good one.

No one can expect to learn much by way of systematic knowledge about a properly sized country (and that doesn't include Singapore, FYI) by merely visiting it briefly. One can certainly learn more of value from the reams of information available in the public domain. So to suggest that factual information that one might gather from reputable sources from the Internet is somehow less revealing than actually going to a country is just ridiculous.

And in fact, you have used statistics (albeit cherry-picked ones) from the same online wellspring to bolster your arguments. Why all these faceless, flavour-free charts? Why no colourful personal anecdotes since your insinuation is that you've seen far more of the country in a far more meaningful way than I have? I mean, you're making it sound as if you've lived there upward of a decade, and not just in one place - you make it sound like you've been some kind of philosopher hobo roving the countryside by Greyhound and chumming with all strata of American society .

And if that actually isn't the case, I suggest you stop making spurious attacks attempting to impugn the travel experiences of others and stick to the point.

As for the rest of it, I am aware of many of the problems America has faced and braved. Both external and internal. I could suggest a whole litany of other unsavoury titbits you could add to your collection, some of which I dare say you are unaware of. But the point is: the US actually has a real, long and tumultuous history behind it, even since its founding as a Nation. Singapore's own history, while certainly interesting, is simply neither as long or complex, nor as studied and dissected as the US's own has been. The reason for the latter is that more people are simply more interested in US history than in Singapore's. This is a simple and undeniable fact. A basic world catalogue search for print books (excluding ebooks, journal articles, dissertations and other bric-a-brac) showed over 200,000 results for "US history" but merely 20,000+ for the same search with "Singapore history" as the keywords. Oh, and irony-of-ironies, even a Singapore NLB website search showed more results for "US history" than for "Singapore history". Imagine that!

There is no question at all in any reasonably sane person's mind that the US has a far, far more prominent place in both world history and the current world stage than Singapore has ever had. So your attempt to even compare the two countries as if we were somehow even close to being on an equal footing (let alone more important than the US) is beyond laughable.

You mentioned "tech" - clearly it's hardly the only thing the US's greatness is built on, but even that computer or phone or tablet you're going to be furiously composing your outraged reply to me on is based on transistor technology conceived of and built entirely by American genius.

You mentioned gun laws and school shootings. That's just a symptom of one of the many freedoms conferred on US citizenry by its Constitution. Whether it's  foolhardy is another question - but the point is that the citizens there have real rights and freedoms that Singaporeans can scarce dream of. And I still maintain that the comparative lack of violent crime in Singapore is less because we're somehow more civilised or "socially engineered" better by our governmental nurturing or whatever - it's largely because we don't have legal access to the same tools of expression that the Americans take for granted. Apropos of the First Amendment, they have free speech, but ours is severely curtailed; yet even despite all the sedition laws our government has seen fit to throw at us, we see horribly racist comments being exchanged frequently on social media. It's even worse on forums hosted on overseas servers, where Singaporeans can really let loose and expose the true blackness of their hearts. So it's not that we're made or raised better than the Americans, it's just that we're massively repressed (and yet the malice nevertheless finds a way to rear its ugly head). Now, if we relaxed our gun ownership laws even to a fraction of what the Americans enjoy, I bet you there'll be far more bloodshed here than what the US sees in most of its cities. Constant repression is no way to maintain the health of a nation. The reason everyone knows about the problems with America is that everyone is allowed to, and even encouraged to, talk about them. In contrast, many systemic problems and societal issues are simply buried under the rug in Singapore. Woe (and defamation/POFMA) betide the ones who dare to challenge the powers-that-be here!

With regard to poor people - there is a real homelessness problem in the US, but they've never once sought to hide it or gloss over it.  Even if politicians try to spin-doctor this kind of thing from time to time, truth will out, simply because of the sanctity of free speech and the free press there. In contrast, our own destitute population is often hidden away like a national embarrassment. We have politicians with the temerity to talk about elderly indigents collecting cardboard "for exercise"! And no-one can really go hard at gainsaying our ruling party politicians, what with all the laws they've put in place (and further bolstered by chilling new laws like the POFMA).

I won't even bother mentioning the geographical richness of the country as it's just gilding the lily at this point.

Oh, and by way of winding up (in more than one sense of the word), you seem to have been especially piqued when someone mentioned "papayas" - I take it you're a supporter of the ruling party and that triggered your immense incense and unfathomable umbrage, prompting you to start this ridiculous comparison between the US and Singapore? Let me therefore end with an anecdote featuring our late "founding father" LKY.

During the legal proceedings against Teo Soh Lung, LKY insinuated (on court record) that the University of Singapore was  a less than reputable institute of higher learning. The fact that he was deriding his own country's pride and joy never stopped him - that speaks volumes about his own petty malice (in his own way, he was every bit as vindictive as Trump is now, albeit far more articulate). Nevertheless, it is revealing that even our own "founding father" thinks that we our premier institute of higher learning did not measure up to the crown jewels of education of the Western Hemisphere.

The bottom line is that while we can make endless pettifogging and cherry-picked statistical and demographic comparisons purporting to show how Singapore is faring better than the US, it's simply laughable to compare our history, and our standing as a Nation, to the US.

Apart from that, I have little else to say on the matter. And since I doubt I can persuade someone who's actually insanely zealous enough to think the US is inferior to us as a nation, I am not going to attempt the futile.

Your commitment to this debate must be praised considering the amount of text you have contributed although the value of your contribution is subjective.

Not sure why you are so defensive about not travelling to US to see things in your own eyes. As if I'm accusing you of being a frog in a well even though you are very keen to tell me the amount of history and literature available at NLB. For you to defend US and put Singapore down is as admirable as the patriotism shown by those MAGA flag-waving redneck hillbillies.

Reality is in your own eyes, if you can't even travel to US and see the living conditions of the sub-urban and still insistence on the great projection of power shown to you by the great media and your memories of things, then I think your views on things are pure fantasy. 

 

Considering all your negative comments on our government, perhaps you should look in the mirror and check if you are commenting from a privileged position. 

As for whether I support or voted for PAP? Perhaps you are some kind of parrot-reliant fortune teller to be able to assume so much from so little?

 

You must be pretty thick-skinned to even compare US with Singapore when COVID-19 deaths in US exceeded 210,000. When civil riots are ongoing. When unemployment rate is at 8%. When they are still at war defending their own freedom and liberties beyond their own borders. 

How on earth do you write off school shootings as just a symptom of freedom? This is a vomit-inducing view.

 

I get it, you think that the Singapore government is authoritarian, oppressive and you prefer the kind of freedom that makes US a super-power. That's fine for me, except that for you to live in Singapore must be kind of depressing right?

 

One thing I must make clear, I didn't say that Singapore is a super-power, but I disagree that US is a super-power. They were a super-power in the 80s and 90s, but there's no way you can compare US to Singapore now.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Vinyl

[t0y0ta]

9 hours ago, Turboflat4 said:

I

 The bottom line is that while we can make endless pettifogging and cherry-picked statistical and demographic comparisons purporting to show how Singapore is faring better than the US, it's simply laughable to compare our history, and our standing as a Nation, to the US.



 

I agree on the various points.

USA is like a chaos land to us, but it shows the strength of their institutions and empowerment of individuals that they can have jokers in political leadership and the country is still producing the world's best armaments, the most innovative tech and 3rd world refugees are still preferring to go USA than anywhere else.

SG is just a good city to live in. Honestly if you live in San Francisco or Santa Clara, the lifestyle may not be inferior.

[Nolicense]

47 minutes ago, Mockngbrd said:

  Hide contents

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/trump-aide-hope-hicks-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

Huat ah! 

Huat seo!

[Tkseah]

38 minutes ago, Beregond said:

i didnt finish the whole video. . Chris Wallace totally lost control of the whole thing. 

trump had 0 intention of having a proper debate, if u watch abit u will know .

trump simply dun play by the rules, at world stage or home ground. same same..

'Mr. Wallace conceded that he had been slow to recognize that the president was not going to cease flouting the debate’s rules.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/30/business/media/chris-wallace-debate-moderator.html

Next debate just switch off the other fellas mic when it is not their turn.. 

[Fcw75]

So when’s Trump turn to kenna?

[Jman888]

17 minutes ago, Tkseah said:

Next debate just switch off the other fellas mic when it is not their turn.. 

Trump is unstoppable 

[Jamesc]

12 hours ago, Nolicense said:

So far Trump has not brought the "dirty" rich to task. might be the opposite in fact. he cut taxes against the advice from people like Warren buffet.

He himself has been getting away with the tax loop holes actually for many years.

The plutocracy which the US has become has made many feel disenfranchised and vote Trump as a result. It doesn't matter who the people vote. It may be too late once a plutocracy is in place.

 

My BFF told me the secret to US politics is pretend to drain the swamp.

And when elected cut their taxes of the rich and give the big jobs to the dirty.

Winning formula but can be used only ONCE.

[Beregond]

39 minutes ago, Tkseah said:

Next debate just switch off the other fellas mic when it is not their turn.. 

if trump persists with this type of behaviour in next debate , there is no winning for biden.

how to say it??

its like wrestling with a guy cover with shit and mud . u get nothing other then getting ownself cover with shit and mud in the end.   

[Jamesc]

10 minutes ago, Jamesc said:

My BFF told me the secret to US politics is pretend to drain the swamp.

And when elected cut their taxes of the rich and give the big jobs to the dirty.

Winning formula but can be used only ONCE.

This is also China's Xi winning strategy.

Claim to wipe out corruption.

And Xi has done exactly this.

Xi has wiped out all the corrupt politician

that is NOT on his side.

He only wiped out his corrupt competitors

but not the corrupt that is on HIS side.

[Jamesc]

Trump White House 'worried' about election chances and 'in shock' after chaotic debate

Donald Trump’s White House was so shocked over the president’s so-called debate with Joe Biden this week that his administration was said to be “worried” about his election chances.

Sources close to the situation told NBC News on Wednesday that the US president’s closest aides and campaign team woke-up feeling "worried," "quiet" and "in shock," following Tuesday night’s televised debate with Mr Biden.

Jack Tapper, appeared to speak for many Americans when he described Tuesday’s spectacle as “a hot mess inside a dumpster fire inside a train wreck”, and “the worst debate I have ever seen”.

[1fast1]

40 minutes ago, Vinyl said:

Your commitment to this debate must be praised considering the amount of text you have contributed although the value of your contribution is subjective.

Not sure why you are so defensive about not travelling to US to see things in your own eyes. As if I'm accusing you of being a frog in a well even though you are very keen to tell me the amount of history and literature available at NLB. For you to defend US and put Singapore down is as admirable as the patriotism shown by those MAGA flag-waving redneck hillbillies.

Reality is in your own eyes, if you can't even travel to US and see the living conditions of the sub-urban and still insistence on the great projection of power shown to you by the great media and your memories of things, then I think your views on things are pure fantasy. 

 

Considering all your negative comments on our government, perhaps you should look in the mirror and check if you are commenting from a privileged position. 

As for whether I support or voted for PAP? Perhaps you are some kind of parrot-reliant fortune teller to be able to assume so much from so little?

 

You must be pretty thick-skinned to even compare US with Singapore when COVID-19 deaths in US exceeded 210,000. When civil riots are ongoing. When unemployment rate is at 8%. When they are still at war defending their own freedom and liberties beyond their own borders. 

How on earth do you write off school shootings as just a symptom of freedom? This is a vomit-inducing view.

 

I get it, you think that the Singapore government is authoritarian, oppressive and you prefer the kind of freedom that makes US a super-power. That's fine for me, except that for you to live in Singapore must be kind of depressing right?

 

One thing I must make clear, I didn't say that Singapore is a super-power, but I disagree that US is a super-power. They were a super-power in the 80s and 90s, but there's no way you can compare US to Singapore now.

I'm going to keep this short, but perhaps not so sweet.

Apropos my travel to the US, of course I've been. I just think it's none of your business, since it doesn't impinge on the matter at hand, as I've already elucidated.

Apropos the handling of the COVID-19 crisis and also the current civil strife and its poor management, I lay blame squarely on the current admin, which I've never supported. Trump is actively degrading America from its former status, in practically every meaningful metric. I have always maintained this. Your bringing this up is a pure strawman argument, and not worth debating, since your rather muddled thesis seemed to be that America hasn't been a great nation for a long time, even prior to the current incumbent.

Apropos the school shooting thing, it may be "vomit-inducing" for you, but it's a fact that malcontents, even violent ones, exist in every society. Even in Singapore, we've had a case (5 years back) of a group of youths who set out to assault foreign workers based simply on racist and xenophobic sentiment. If they had had trivially easy and legal access to guns, do you think they wouldn't have hesitated to use them? That was my point - easy access to guns (which is a right America affords its citizens) simply makes the expression of violence much worse, but the hateful sentiments simmer here in Singapore (possibly even worse than in the US because of long-repression).

Apropos your presumed support for the ruling party, fine, it doesn't matter - it's not germane to the argument either way. You just came across that way in your response to that member's post on "papayas". If it's an untrue inference, I am happy to retract it and stand corrected. Doesn't change anything else, really.

Finally, if you think the US is not a superpower right now, then your opinion is in strong disagreement with pretty much every reputable political, military and economic thinktank in the world. I will say (as I always have) that Trump has definitely denigrated their status as one, but it remains a global superpower. And it was a much stronger one before he assumed leadership. Singapore is not even in the same ballpark as a nation, even if you can find metrics where we perform better.

I'm pretty much done with this at this point. Believe what you like, it doesn't change what is. Cheers.

[Yewheng]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/trump-covid-19-quarantine-hope-hicks-coronavirus-us-13177958?cid=FBcna

 

He kanna quarrentine.. Haha

[Jamesc]

If you want to get to the silly Xi supporter.

Just post a pic of Xi.

This one is my favorite.

[Vinyl]

26 minutes ago, Turboflat4 said:

I'm going to keep this short, but perhaps not so sweet.

Apropos my travel to the US, of course I've been. I just think it's none of your business, since it doesn't impinge on the matter at hand, as I've already elucidated.

Apropos the handling of the COVID-19 crisis and also the current civil strife and its poor management, I lay blame squarely on the current admin, which I've never supported. Trump is actively degrading America from its former status, in practically every meaningful metric. I have always maintained this. Your bringing this up is a pure strawman argument, and not worth debating, since your rather muddled thesis seemed to be that America hasn't been a great nation for a long time, even prior to the current incumbent.

Apropos the school shooting thing, it may be "vomit-inducing" for you, but it's a fact that malcontents, even violent ones, exist in every society. Even in Singapore, we've had a case (5 years back) of a group of youths who set out to assault foreign workers based simply on racist and xenophobic sentiment. If they had had trivially easy and legal access to guns, do you think they wouldn't have hesitated to use them? That was my point - easy access to guns (which is a right America affords its citizens) simply makes the expression of violence much worse, but the hateful sentiments simmer here in Singapore (possibly even worse than in the US because of long-repression).

Apropos your presumed support for the ruling party, fine, it doesn't matter - it's not germane to the argument either way. You just came across that way in your response to that member's post on "papayas". If it's an untrue inference, I am happy to retract it and stand corrected. Doesn't change anything else, really.

Finally, if you think the US is not a superpower right now, then your opinion is in strong disagreement with pretty much every reputable political, military and economic thinktank in the world. I will say (as I always have) that Trump has definitely denigrated their status as one, but it remains a global superpower. And it was a much stronger one before he assumed leadership. Singapore is not even in the same ballpark as a nation, even if you can find metrics where we perform better.

I'm pretty much done with this at this point. Believe what you like, it doesn't change what is. Cheers.

Our government is not perfect but it is good enough to not give you the same amount of problems American citizens are facing. Then again, I didn't vote for PAP at any time.

You have said your point, I have said mine. Doesn't change anything.

US being a super power or not is just an opinion, there's no right or wrong even if any reputable thinktank says anything about that. Many thinktanks in the world are funded by US arms makers anyway, so their views are irrelevant to me.

 

Like I said before, facts matter, reality matter, opinions don't (a member here couldn't take this comment and blocked me 😂). 

Empires fall and whether US is crumbling, time will tell.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Vinyl

[Volvobrick]

1 hour ago, t0y0ta said:

 

I agree on the various points.

USA is like a chaos land to us, but it shows the strength of their institutions and empowerment of individuals that they can have jokers in political leadership and the country is still producing the world's best armaments, the most innovative tech and 3rd world refugees are still preferring to go USA than anywhere else.

SG is just a good city to live in. Honestly if you live in San Francisco or Santa Clara, the lifestyle may not be inferior.

We can't have jokers in charge as our institutions are not strong.  No checks, no balance. Just look at the recent Covid FW handling....

 

[Jman888]

19 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/trump-covid-19-quarantine-hope-hicks-coronavirus-us-13177958?cid=FBcna

 

He kanna quarrentine.. Haha

i think he has vaccine hiding in his sleeves