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Progressive wage or minimum wage? Detailed study needed


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Forum: Progressive wage or minimum wage? Detailed study needed

source: https://www.straitstimes.com/forum/forum-progressive-wage-or-minimum-wage-detailed-study-needed

Members of Parliament had a robust debate on the efficacy of a universal minimum wage policy to lift the wages of lower-wage workers, while minimising the cost to society (House sees spirited debate on issue of minimum wage, Sept 4).

However, as Straits Times senior political correspondent Grace Ho pointed out, the debate generated "more heat than light" (A spirited debate on minimum wage, but where are the details?, Sept 4).

It is time for an extensive study on the effectiveness of a universal minimum wage model in Singapore.

This study should highlight the impact of universal minimum wage policies implemented around the world.

It should also consider a report on what has been achieved since the introduction of the Progressive Wage Model (PWM) since 2012.

These should be done via a parliamentary committee.

Based on the study, the parliamentary committee should provide recommendations on whether the PWM or a universal minimum wage model would suit the unique context of Singapore.

This study will hopefully strengthen the quality of arguments surrounding the PWM versus a universal minimum wage model in future debates.

 

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I think there isn't a one size fits all model for wages structure. Afterall, we are a country that is build based on meritocracy. However, I also feel that there are certain group of people in the community deserve to be paid at least at a minimum wage.

For e.g. the elderly who still decided to work even if they can "retire", I would like to see that the govt implement a minimum wages for this group of people who is contributing to the society.

 

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I am truly baffled by 'progressive wages'. So do they have a base or everyone is different and why is it different if that base already too little? Do we know what is the lowest base or still guessing? My understanding is all employees have to receive CPF contribution if you work beyond certain number of days per month? Don't we know the answer if anyone indeed earns below $1k per month for that single job whether it is progressive or min wages? 

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As long as my salary goes up

I don't mind if they call it Progressive or Minimum.

It all sounds good to me.

:grin:

Btw Progressive or Minimum is higher?

We think we should just take the higher one.

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10 hours ago, Victor68 said:

I am truly baffled by 'progressive wages'. So do they have a base or everyone is different and why is it different if that base already too little? Do we know what is the lowest base or still guessing? My understanding is all employees have to receive CPF contribution if you work beyond certain number of days per month? Don't we know the answer if anyone indeed earns below $1k per month for that single job whether it is progressive or min wages? 

I don't know, got this feeling because of we all voters pressure, so have to come out with something. Government knew minimum wage is a no go, so have to come to compromise and come out with pwm. 

 

At least pwm is still not that bad as compared to mimimum wage as it is targeted and also have possibilities of upskill workers hopping that they could perform higher value job to justify for higher salaries. 

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8 hours ago, Yewheng said:

I don't know, got this feeling because of we all voters pressure, so have to come out with something. Government knew minimum wage is a no go, so have to come to compromise and come out with pwm. 

 

At least pwm is still not that bad as compared to mimimum wage as it is targeted and also have possibilities of upskill workers hopping that they could perform higher value job to justify for higher salaries. 

2 problems.

Only if the training is free and the workers wants to be train

only if the company allow the workers to be train during office hours and give incentivise for upskill and not just same pay for 10 years.

Even in today's context, those applicant that join SMRT as train driver can flunk the course. I wonder the quality of instructor sometimes.

Edited by Sdf4786k
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10 hours ago, Kangadrool said:

If only short-sighted, take minimum wage. If presybopia, take progressive.

Then if scared of working in the hot sun, take a career "transition"? 😂

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1 hour ago, Sdf4786k said:

2 problems.

Only if the training is free and the workers wants to be train

only if the company allow the workers to be train during office hours and give incentivise for upskill and not just same pay for 10 years.

Even in today's context, those applicant that join SMRT as train driver can flunk the course. I wonder the quality of instructor sometimes.

Ya but then when compared to pwm vs mimimum wage. Still pwm is better although in free market, we should not even have pwm in the 1st place. Well government have to come to compromise I suppose, coz ultimately they still need to win vote. 

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I think many people in the 'high level' didn't understand those earning below $1k situation. That is why the progressive wage always creeps into discussion. If one is struggling to survive with less than $1k without minimum wage, how to progress and enjoy long term benefits from progressive? Once you have that minimum,  then you can introduce whatever progressive lah.

Edited by Victor68
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34 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Ya but then when compared to pwm vs mimimum wage. Still pwm is better although in free market, we should not even have pwm in the 1st place. Well government have to come to compromise I suppose, coz ultimately they still need to win vote. 

Not sure about that. But from my limited understanding , which is as good as no understanding, the minimum wage is like a cycle of doing tge ssme thing.

So you increase the minimum wage to 1k. The small timer that use to pay 850 have to pay additional 150. May not be much in many peoples opinion. But the small time business will either increase in job scope or totally not increase in year to year pay increase. Else will make that poor guy do more for the pay increase.

And for good measure, he increase the price of goods sold or reduce the quantity to increase tbe margin.

Mutiply that to the whole eco system, the services and product cost may shoot up 10 to 20%. And everyone else will also want a higher pay rise to meet the rising cost. But if that 1k guy still consistantly only get 1k till death, will he eventually be stuck in the same cycle?

So then the way to go maybe the lesser of 2 evils. Pwm. Which in a measure approach is to provide a graudual lift of the wage while helping the biz evolve along the eco system and arrive at a more matual growth.

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That is the key SDF4786k, you just said $850, there are people paid less than that now. How to survive with $850? Like what our good minster has suggested, take on 2 or more jobs. Some people even suggest hawker food is too cheap but nobody says minimum wage?

We have multi million dollar minsters,  people who earns $20 m in bonus alone and not forgetting the person salary cannot disclose because it is just ridiculous. 

Edited by Victor68
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10 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

That is the key SDF4786k, you just said $850, there are people paid less than that now. How to survive with $850? Like what our good minster has suggested, take on 2 or more jobs. Some people even suggest hawker food is too cheap but nobody says minimum wage?

Okay, talking about this... Don't forget people have a choice. If the interviewer felt the pay is too low like huh? I will only get 850 per month for cleaner job? This cleaner may say no thanks, I will go for another job interview that will offer me higher salary. Government set mimimum wage law is just distort the market. The distortion could be in a from of hiring less low skill workers, push companies to automation, rise selling price of products or become less competitive in the market and etc. 

 

Don't forget, there is also risk of employees job hopping. Like they join this company worked for a few months decide to quit the job and join another company. Like that how? The money, time wasted in investing this person need to go through the whole process again. 

 

 

BTW, what you see is how can we survive like that, what if this person is just working for job experience like student, or this person is already quite happy with 850 then with no job. Look at maid, maid get even less then 850. They also like that.. So we cannot just cast judgement on a person like how can he get so low pay and how to survive where we are not him in the 1st place. We are just seeing from outside perspective that might not paint a 100% clear picture. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yewheng
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Yewheng, I was offered $2k but I feel I should be paid $5k so I rejected the offer. But hor, everyone else is offering $2k because there are more job seekers than opening then how? LL take $2k and look for 2nd job to reach $4k and hope for some OT lor

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31 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

That is the key SDF4786k, you just said $850, there are people paid less than that now. How to survive with $850? Like what our good minster has suggested, take on 2 or more jobs. Some people even suggest hawker food is too cheap but nobody says minimum wage?

We have multi million dollar minsters,  people who earns $20 m in bonus alone and not forgetting the person salary cannot disclose because it is just ridiculous. 

That 2 or 3 job thinking concept probably spin off from people who sits on 10 or more board of director roles. So, the idea to take on more than 2 jobs for them to say is easier than done. But if you need to have a full time job, need to take care of the family, take part time course for your degree or mba and still go for reservist, its just going to be an uphill slooe. Not impossible, but something will break. And like all people who dont have a response to such question, they will say there are not alot of these people. We should be resilent and talk about the solution, not about problems and see how to make it happen.

Which bring us one full circle. If discrimination is there. No matter how hard you work, as long as you not in that cirvle if friends, you will always be excluded no matter how hard you try. Its going to be a fools errant. 

 

Edited by Sdf4786k
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