How relevant is EV for Singapore in 2020?

[Voodooman]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Unless wireless charging, our MSCP is NOT long enough to accommodate charging station + car.

Under the current tender, vendor supposed to build and run charging station.

User needs to learn to share.  DC is the only choice from ROI perspective.

As I told Yewseng previously, it cost $13 or $14 of electricity to run 200km for Ioniq.

For heavy users, it is a lot of savings.

Why? I am not a technical person but new MSCP can definitely be built to accommodate the heavier usage of power. It may be more challenging to provide charging point for all lots in old MSCP but that is not an issue that money cannot solve.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/electric-vehicles-budget-2020-charging-points-energy-12512194

Dr Ong said location will also depend on charging technology. Under the national EV charging standard TR25, there are two standards – Type 2 (AC) for slow-charging and Combo 2 (DC) for fast-charging.

Slow-chargers can fully charge a car in six to eight hours and are more useful for overnight charging. 

“It would make more sense to actually have these (slow) charging stations in, perhaps, HDB estates, where drivers are already parking their cars at HDB car parks overnight,” he said.

Fast-chargers, on the other hand, are more suited to those constantly on the move. For example, SP Group’s fast-chargers primarily serve drivers of fleet vehicles such as electric taxi service HDT, Grab’s electric cars, and multi-national corporation Schneider Electric’s internal-use fleet.

These can get a car battery pumped up in 30 minutes and many are spread out in areas such as office buildings, housing estates, business parks, JTC industrial estates and even on Sentosa.

[inlinesix]

6 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Why? I am not a technical person but new MSCP can definitely be built to accommodate the heavier usage of power. It may be more challenging to provide charging point for all lots in old MSCP but that is not an issue that money cannot solve.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/electric-vehicles-budget-2020-charging-points-energy-12512194

Dr Ong said location will also depend on charging technology. Under the national EV charging standard TR25, there are two standards – Type 2 (AC) for slow-charging and Combo 2 (DC) for fast-charging.

Slow-chargers can fully charge a car in six to eight hours and are more useful for overnight charging. 

“It would make more sense to actually have these (slow) charging stations in, perhaps, HDB estates, where drivers are already parking their cars at HDB car parks overnight,” he said.

Fast-chargers, on the other hand, are more suited to those constantly on the move. For example, SP Group’s fast-chargers primarily serve drivers of fleet vehicles such as electric taxi service HDT, Grab’s electric cars, and multi-national corporation Schneider Electric’s internal-use fleet.

These can get a car battery pumped up in 30 minutes and many are spread out in areas such as office buildings, housing estates, business parks, JTC industrial estates and even on Sentosa.

For new MSCP, the design must incorporate parking lot EV charging.  Existing no longer applicable as parking lot needs to be longer.

In the market now, both SP Power and Shell has charging station.

Both players have both AC (43kwh) and DC (50kwh) charger.

What MoT is saying is either 7kwh or 22kwh charger.  These chargers may take up less space.  No cooling is required.

For commercial operators, it does not make sense to install 100%.  Utilisation will be low.

I believe there is a certain turnover rate for breakeven of each charging station.

[Yewheng]

6 hours ago, inlinesix said:

For new MSCP, the design must incorporate parking lot EV charging.  Existing no longer applicable as parking lot needs to be longer.

In the market now, both SP Power and Shell has charging station.

Both players have both AC (43kwh) and DC (50kwh) charger.

What MoT is saying is either 7kwh or 22kwh charger.  These chargers may take up less space.  No cooling is required.

For commercial operators, it does not make sense to install 100%.  Utilisation will be low.

I believe there is a certain turnover rate for breakeven of each charging station.

Yeah..  But at least need 33%. I feel. Don't forget there is taxi driver, private hire driver, there is sales person, there is lorry driver, there is truck driver. All these travel long distance everyday. So these drivers most likely is everyday charge. For those driving to work perhaps 4 to 7 days charge. Plus need to have spare, imagine after work everyday very tired already. The last thing the person want is to waste time to find available charging lot. Worst is can't find available at the driver home and battery is going to flat. 

 

What you assume is the best case scenario, you need to consider the worst case scenario. I am citing what is likely to happen, so it is not best case and not worst case scenario. So you want in future a lot drivers get very frustrated on keep cannot find charging lots when they need to charge the car? 

[ZeroRing7]

How much will Honda E cost after all the subsidy?

[Ct3833]

When the scale gets bigger, the price of the end product can only get cheaper.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/lg-magna-billion-dollar-electric-car-joint-venture-13829594

[Goldenvodka]

The new Tengah BTOs comes with many electric cars lots for charging. If can manage to get a BTO there I will really consider switching to an electric car.

Prices are reasonable nowadays

https://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_overview.php?CarCode=12537 - Sub 100K, petrol cars of that size also about the same price.

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Goldenvodka

[awhtc]

On 12/22/2020 at 11:52 PM, Voodooman said:

If you can power and light up a MSCP, what is so difficult to install charging points?  It is just a matter of returns on investment. From an earlier article I read, each charging points cost just a few thousands dollars.  If the demand is there, very easy to recoup the money.  

Hydrogen fuel cells on the other hand is space age technology and way more expensive. Storage cost and the extreme high pressure required, transportation is difficult, etc. If not, it will be more environmentally friendly than EV. 

The sub-stations and power cables will have to be upgraded to take higher current.

[WuGZ]

BYD new e6 coming soon

You can cover a lot of ground in the all-new e6! With a range of 522km on a single charge, the new e6 offers memorable journeys with zero emissions, uncompromising safety and maximum efficiency.

Range of up to 522km, If price is around $110-120k, Blade battery, will be very attractive

 

 

[inlinesix]

BMW i3 review - After 170k km

From owner POV

 

[Comage]

On 12/21/2020 at 9:19 PM, Yewheng said:

Ya right.. So by 2040 need to have 50% of carpark lots with charging port? Just look at how many cars in sg and usually capark can be quite full at night for multi story carpark for few level. Later headache no charging port slot available at the home nearby multi story carpark and need to driver to another location which is further away if the charing port is less then 50% installed in the carpark lot. So aren't it defeat the purpose? 

 

 

This is what I think also man - MSCPs in residential areas are so choked full of cars at night, with newer estates having around > 70% "occupancy" rates (around 400-500 vehicles)
Even with a modest 10% of cars needing to charge overnight, that's a no-win situation for anyone looking for a charging lot.

I sure as hell ain't going to drive to "another location" to charge overnight - hell, I didn't pay season parking for that other car park, so I sure ain't leaving it there overnight for sure!

On 12/22/2020 at 7:20 AM, Yewheng said:

Yup, 200.. By 2040 need at least 500k charging lots. Can it be done? The cost involved to maintain the 500k charging lots too. Currently we just park at parking lot, relatively maintenance free, aka park and go. In 2040 to maintain 500k charging lot in whole of Singapore? The cost involved? That is beside the need to purchase the charging equipment to put on that lot. What about the lifespan of the charging equipment? The cable, like as we know even USB cable have a set number of plug and unplug. After that set number, the cable will start to degrade and will not charge hp properly. 

 

Take this for example, really respect these people behind the scene doing all the preparation work and discussing what are the things that needed and or going to happen even before the vaccine was ready to be vaccinated. So all these problems I pointed out, its a early head start for people to start planning all these EV problems, including whether is it feasible to install at least 500k charging lots, the maintenance of at least 500k lots, the lifespan of the charging equipment and etc. 

I don't know, but for large numbers, I feel it would be more cost effective to have like what we currently have now. Petrol stations spread out at whole of Singapore. So it is a lot more cost effective. Like say future charging will be go to say petrol station (maybe rename as electric charging station) to charge car up to full. So the maintenance, replace equipment wise would be then a lot easier to manage, plus if one electric charging station shut down for maintenance, there are still a lot more charging station in whole of Singapore. So in order to achieve that, the charging time need to reduce to 10 minutes or less to full. So hopefully we will be able to see that by year 2040. If not the whole EV thing will be in a mass, people are very frustrated with long charging time, no charging lots in many carpark due to all taken up, charging equipment faulty, expensive parking due to park car overnight to charge and etc. 

 

This is also what I think *could* work - government mandates current petrol kiosk to convert/provide electric charging from the existing petrol pumps - like maybe 25-50% of pumps must be electric (i.e., typical 4 out of 8 pumps are electric charging "pumps").

THAT - could work. But it means the charging stations must be the "latest and greatest" that will charge to full charge in under 10-mins flat; otherwise nobody will bother to stop-and-charge their EVs there...

[Ct3833]

15 minutes ago, Comage said:

This is what I think also man - MSCPs in residential areas are so choked full of cars at night, with newer estates having around > 70% "occupancy" rates (around 400-500 vehicles)
Even with a modest 10% of cars needing to charge overnight, that's a no-win situation for anyone looking for a charging lot.

I sure as hell ain't going to drive to "another location" to charge overnight - hell, I didn't pay season parking for that other car park, so I sure ain't leaving it there overnight for sure!

This is also what I think *could* work - government mandates current petrol kiosk to convert/provide electric charging from the existing petrol pumps - like maybe 25-50% of pumps must be electric (i.e., typical 4 out of 8 pumps are electric charging "pumps").

THAT - could work. But it means the charging stations must be the "latest and greatest" that will charge to full charge in under 10-mins flat; otherwise nobody will bother to stop-and-charge their EVs there...

Just make sure that all safety measures are considered, otherwise  a spark or arcing from any charging points may cause the petrol kios to explode 😨😨😨

Edited January 3, 2021 by Ct3833

[Hons]

after reading all the recent post on EVs, i heard 3 grps of ppl.
1. will not adopt EV and give a thousand reasons why EVs will not work. high cost, low charging infra, this and that. you should stay with ICE
2. will adopt but still skeptical on insufficient charging infra for all hdb overnight parking
3. EV owners trying very hard to convince others

if you can afford an EV now and you are mindful of the environment, take the 1st step, own an EV and make it work. make an effort to change your lifestyle a little to accommodate the charging cycles.
else you are always be criticizing from the side line, while someone else tries to reduce carbon emission and improve the environment for you.

[inlinesix]

[Beanoyip]

On 12/23/2020 at 3:36 PM, Watwheels said:

Maybe. Charging time will reduce as well. If can reduce by half like 15mins can charge 80% full. That will be good.

Now is 20 mins to 50% for Tesla's superchargers.. in SG's context, i think 50% is sufficient for you to go about your daily business.. then once you're back home, you can do your slow charging overnight..

[Hons]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:24 AM, Beanoyip said:

Now is 20 mins to 50% for Tesla's superchargers.. in SG's context, i think 50% is sufficient for you to go about your daily business.. then once you're back home, you can do your slow charging overnight..

this idea of charging 50% or 80% is a very relative term. for Mini-e with 32.6kWh pack, 50% = 16.3kWh but for a Kona-e with 64kWh pack, 50% = 32kWh. on a 50kW dcfc, 50% Mini-e takes 20mins, but 50% Kona-e will take 38mins.

maybe it is better to discuss time to charge 100km of range, although each ev might have different consumption, most hover between 14-18kWh/100km. so if we take 16kWh/100, then we need to charger for 19mins.

[D3badge]

https://vulcanpost.com/815514/ev-charger-hogging-obstacle-ev-adoption/

reason why I still prefer ICE or Hybrid as of now