How relevant is EV for Singapore in 2020?

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

I recently had a PHEV - the BMW 225 XE as a temporary replacement car. 

While the 225XE is not exactly a 100% electric car, but if you keep the battery charged up, you can technically run on full electric power for about 25km. Was eager to try out how it is like to be living with an EV in Singapore and here are my observations:

1. Driving on pure electric power was weird (like driving around with your engine shut down) in the beginning. But i kinda enjoyed it after awhile, i guess.
2. Biggest challenge with the short range is...eventually, it will fall back into petrol powered mode and it takes forever to charge the battery up again until you plug-in again.
3. A domestic power point + the supplied cable is not enough, you'll need a wall box to be installed in order to safely charge the car.
4. It's a big pain to find places to charge when you're out of the house and run out battery juice. While there are quite a number of charging points, but they're often operated by different service providers (each requires u to become a member + place deposit/min fee etc. etc. to use).
5. When you eventually find it, you'll end up staring at the grass for the next 2-3 hours waiting for the car to charge up.🤣 
6. The instant torque of the electric motor + engine is super addictive a total blast when overtaking with 385 Nm of near instant torque !!! 
7. No one will be willing to wait 2-3 hours for the battery to be fully charged. Not practical for anyone who does not have a charger at home.
8. Oh ya...  this short, fat and very family looking car does 0-100 in 6.7 sec 😈 ultimate sleeper car!
9. Long term cost of maintenance is a big question mark.

In conclusion, Singapore's infra is still far from being EV friendly. The most practical way for someone who does not have a home charger to drive an EV...go the PHEV way if you want to experience electric car and yet can fall back to the petrol engine for a decent drive if u run out of juice.

We are slow in adoption of PHEV.

In Malaysia, BMW PHEV is available from 3 to 7 series.

F15 X5 40e is RM100k cheaper than 35i

Not everyone charge the battery using wallplug

[Lala81]

11 minutes ago, Stratovarius said:

I on the other hand, am interested in EV. Other than environment, EV can easily meet higher performance output than their petrol/diesel counterpart. 

But in 2020, still not relevant as our infrastructure is not ready yet. My friend is thinking of installing a charging port in his landed house as he is thinking of getting a pure EV. Was told it will not be expensive. In SG, hybrid will make more sense where the engine is used to charge the battery and the battery powers the motor driving the wheels. Its the best of both worlds. 

Till date, honda e is my fave ev. lol. 😂

Singapore is the country that tax your EV gao gao. Other countries is give tax breaks ++

I've not met a hybrid I like to drive. Maybe the Rav4 Prime would be the one that changes it. Heard very good things about it.

[Karoon]

Proper charging should be from 3- phase power supply. Wall socket is only single phase. 

[inlinesix]

5 minutes ago, Lala81 said:

Singapore is the country that tax your EV gao gao. Other countries is give tax breaks ++

I've not met a hybrid I like to drive. Maybe the Rav4 Prime would be the one that changes it. Heard very good things about it.

Nissan Leaf is tax free in Malaysia.  It cost RM190k or SGD 60k.

In Japan, the similar car is JPY 3.3m or SGD 43k

[inlinesix]

7 minutes ago, Karoon said:

Proper charging should be from 3- phase power supply. Wall socket is only single phase. 

3 phase DC charger.

[Volvobrick]

11 minutes ago, Lala81 said:

Singapore is the country that tax your EV gao gao. Other countries is give tax breaks ++

I've not met a hybrid I like to drive. Maybe the Rav4 Prime would be the one that changes it. Heard very good things about it.

Yeah - here EV kena taxed to death, even the road tax is more expensive.  The higher the battery capacity, the more ARF.  It's like taxing the size of the fuel tank.

PHEV might work, provided same price as normal car model for model.

[Rickster]

15 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Nissan Leaf is tax free in Malaysia.  It cost RM190k or SGD 60k.

In Japan, the similar car is JPY 3.3m or SGD 43k

Looking at how we tax electric cars, its no wonder why Elon Musk personally contact our PM.

[inlinesix]

10 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Yeah - here EV kena taxed to death, even the road tax is more expensive.  The higher the battery capacity, the more ARF.  It's like taxing the size of the fuel tank.

PHEV might work, provided same price as normal car model for model.

Similar to Diesel car, EV requires mileage to breakeven.

More battery = increase in car price.

[Sdf4786k]

I am still worried that if an EV catches fire, the SCDF is not too sure how to put it out

[Sorethum]

SG in 2020 totally insufficient infrastructure for EV.

I don't think we'll be ready even in 10 years.

Think of how many MSCP and condo carparks there are around.

The temporary solution in 2020?

Series hybrid car, eg. Nissan E-Power.

Car is driven by an electric motor, so technically is an EV, but no need charging, cos the battery is recharged by an accompanying petrol ICE motor, so actually it's a hybrid!

Apparently Carlos Ghosn, formerly of Nissan/Renault, was a big believer of this technology.

Found in the fugly Serena MPV, and the basic urban crossover, the Kicks.

My 2 cents.

[inlinesix]

10 minutes ago, Sorethum said:

SG in 2020 totally insufficient infrastructure for EV.

I don't think we'll be ready even in 10 years.

Think of how many MSCP and condo carparks there are around.

The temporary solution in 2020?

Series hybrid car, eg. Nissan E-Power.

Car is driven by an electric motor, so technically is an EV, but no need charging, cos the battery is recharged by an accompanying petrol ICE motor, so actually it's a hybrid!

Apparently Carlos Ghosn, formerly of Nissan/Renault, was a big believer of this technology.

Found in the fugly Serena MPV, and the basic urban crossover, the Kicks.

My 2 cents.

Whether infra is sufficient or not, it is a chicken and egg problem.

Without sufficient of cars for charging, charging companies will lost money.

Look at SP Power charging grid

https://www.spgroup.com.sg/what-we-do/mobility

I will not say insufficient based on current population of EV

 

[ElectricYouth]

5 hours ago, Rickster said:

I recently had a PHEV - the BMW 225 XE as a temporary replacement car. 

While the 225XE is not exactly a 100% electric car, but if you keep the battery charged up, you can technically run on full electric power for about 25km. Was eager to try out how it is like to be living with an EV in Singapore and here are my observations:

1. Driving on pure electric power was weird (like driving around with your engine shut down) in the beginning. But i kinda enjoyed it after awhile, i guess.
2. Biggest challenge with the short range is...eventually, it will fall back into petrol powered mode and it takes forever to charge the battery up again until you plug-in again.
3. A domestic power point + the supplied cable is not enough, you'll need a wall box to be installed in order to safely charge the car.
4. It's a big pain to find places to charge when you're out of the house and run out battery juice. While there are quite a number of charging points, but they're often operated by different service providers (each requires u to become a member + place deposit/min fee etc. etc. to use).
5. When you eventually find it, you'll end up staring at the grass for the next 2-3 hours waiting for the car to charge up.🤣 
6. The instant torque of the electric motor + engine is super addictive a total blast when overtaking with 385 Nm of near instant torque !!! 
7. No one will be willing to wait 2-3 hours for the battery to be fully charged. Not practical for anyone who does not have a charger at home.
8. Oh ya...  this short, fat and very family looking car does 0-100 in 6.7 sec 😈 ultimate sleeper car!
9. Long term cost of maintenance is a big question mark.

In conclusion, Singapore's infra is still far from being EV friendly. The most practical way for someone who does not have a home charger to drive an EV...go the PHEV way if you want to experience electric car and yet can fall back to the petrol engine for a decent drive if u run out of juice.

 

4. I have only seen Greenlots (Shell) and Bluesg Type 2 chargers. And yes there aren’t many of these points. Who are the other providers? 

5. The BMW only has a 3.7kwh onboard charger as it is a PHEV. So it’s slow to charge cause it’s meant for home charging. Pure electric cars will have CCS charging that can charge up to 50kwh at the SP Rapid chargers. 
7. Pure electric car will charge a lot faster on rapid chargers. 
9. Electric motors are mechanically much simpler than an engine. Time will tell what the long term reliability is.

 

[ElectricYouth]

12 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Whether infra is sufficient or not, it is a chicken and egg problem.

Without sufficient of cars for charging, charging companies will lost money.

Look at SP Power charging grid

https://www.spgroup.com.sg/what-we-do/mobility

I will not say insufficient based on current population of EV

 

Agree it is chicken and egg problem. And the charging network can only get better with the govt push.

Funan has 8 charging points. Tampines Hub has 7. MBS just added 8 recently.

The SP rapid chargers is still expanding. Hope it covers the northern part of the island better.

Best would be to have Bluesg charge points at my MSCP that allows non Bluesg cars to charge.

 

[Watwheels]

 Sgp buys barrels and barrels of fossil fuel to burn just so to produce electricity. And it's not even 100% efficient. Combustion process is less than 50% efficient.

We are not like the US who has nuclear power plants or using hydro-electric dams to produce cheap electricity. Our local govt will no doubt tax according to how much fuel the power plant burns to produce that eletricity. It's very much like the Nissan Kicks epower having that onboard petrol engine burning petrol just to produce electricity except the burning of the fuel is done at the power station. Buying fuel to burn is expensive. Power stations doesnt run on charity and to sustain its operations it's not going to be cheap. Our population is so small, breaking down the cost to everyone it will no doubt be ex. Cannot compare to big countries like the US.

And that Elon dude is just a businessman. All he wants is to market and push sales for his company's EVs and he doesnt gives a sh!t about the rest. Anyway there's nothing he can do to influence the govt here. End of the day there's obviously no free lunch. It's all about cost.

Edited September 11, 2020 by Watwheels

[Sorethum]

9 hours ago, Watwheels said:

 Sgp buys barrels and barrels of fossil fuel to burn just so to produce electricity. And it's not even 100% efficient. Combustion process is less than 50% efficient.

We are not like the US who has nuclear power plants or using hydro-electric dams to produce cheap electricity. Our local govt will no doubt tax according to how much fuel the power plant burns to produce that eletricity. It's very much like the Nissan Kicks epower having that onboard petrol engine burning petrol just to produce electricity except the burning of the fuel is done at the power station. Buying fuel to burn is expensive. Power stations doesnt run on charity and to sustain its operations it's not going to be cheap. Our population is so small, breaking down the cost to everyone it will no doubt be ex. Cannot compare to big countries like the US.

And that Elon dude is just a businessman. All he wants is to market and push sales for his company's EVs and he doesnt gives a sh!t about the rest. Anyway there's nothing he can do to influence the govt here. End of the day there's obviously no free lunch. It's all about cost.

This is very true and very relevant.

Other countries can use wind/solar/nuclear to produce electricity.

Here we burn fossil fuels to do so.

So driving EV car just appears 'clean', but the 'dirty' fossil fuel burning still happened - upstream!!

[Ganwb79]

Don't like EVs, and the PHEV variants. Hybrids mated to ICE still makes sense. Unless they can get charging speeds down to 10 mins which is the time you spend filling up your tank at a gas station. Why should anyone wait 2-3 hours for such a simple thing as powering up your vehicle. It's like going backwards. I can still use my mobile phone while it's charging, can't do that with EVs. 

[Sorethum]

For most S'poreans who drive to and fro work, pick up a few kids, and run a few errands every day, should not exceed 200km a day?

So one full charge should be able to last the whole day?

So should be able to come home and charge the car overnight?

So for the majority of condo/HDB dwellers, ideal would be:

Wanna buy EV, call up the power company, SP Group or Geneco or whoever, to activate them to install charging point at your carpark (paid service, of course).

Once installed, you'll have your own charging point for your EV car!

Will such a system work? Feasible?

[Sdf4786k]

17 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Whether infra is sufficient or not, it is a chicken and egg problem.

Without sufficient of cars for charging, charging companies will lost money.

Look at SP Power charging grid

https://www.spgroup.com.sg/what-we-do/mobility

I will not say insufficient based on current population of EV

 

Its more end to end solution.

You drive to work, park and there's a charging point for your ride so that you have sufficient charge to return home. At home, at 10pm, charge till tomorrow sufficient for next day. 

Unless the tech improves and reduces it to 30 mins 3/4 charge or able to provide a way to swap batt on the fly, its still a very immature infrastructure. 

I recall we wanted to push CNG as the next best thing and spend millions of dollars and incentive.

Now where are we with that?