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Nearly 1,000 households in Tengah sign up for centralised cooling system


Ysc3
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10 hours ago, Albeniz said:

I stay in the west side.

Are you sure?

Loud and noisy F16 flying off and landing at Tengah.  Danger of air pollution from industrial sites in Tuas area etc.

I tink F15 is louder...even with muffler... 

Welcum to Seng Kang...

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55 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Based on my reading, there won't be one cooling tower in each block. In Marina Bay area, they have 3 plants that covers the whole of MBS, MBFC, etc.  This only works if there is scale.

Ok. If there is an aircon ledge, then just piped the main DC pipe to the aircon ledge area. If it is no longer economical, just disconnect and buy a few compressors to take over. Should be able to use the same piping to the fancoil, i presume. Why need to run new pipes.  Sorry, i am a noob on such matters, just trying to learn something here. 

IMHO & AFAIK.
The pipes are different between AC and CCS. 
I read somewhere that the CCS pressure is 16 barg.  Comparatively,  car tyre pressure is around 2.2 bar. 

 

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1 hour ago, Voodooman said:

Based on my reading, there won't be one cooling tower in each block. In Marina Bay area, they have 3 plants that covers the whole of MBS, MBFC, etc.  This only works if there is scale.

Ok. If there is an aircon ledge, then just piped the main DC pipe to the aircon ledge area. If it is no longer economical, just disconnect and buy a few compressors to take over. Should be able to use the same piping to the fancoil, i presume. Why need to run new pipes.  Sorry, i am a noob on such matters, just trying to learn something here. 

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Its just chilled water pipes runnung to households. Residents install blower units.

The chillers in a remote building with enough redundancy and designed to be most efficient at peak usage. Can be quite noisy. Absorption vs adsorption technology.  Gave me nightmares in a past job.

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12 hours ago, Kklee said:

In their FAQ,  the capacity is 9000 BTU and they never highlight any differences to split unit.

https://www.mytengah.sg/faqs_category/getting-started/

If the subscribers are savvy enough,  they should remember to safe keep all these information which could be useful later on. 

 

I am not familiar with this technology but I am afraid the households may have a few problems:

- those who stay further away  from the chilling system will not get cold enough temperature,  because by the time the chilled water travel all the way there , the  water temperature would have been risen in the pipe,  resulting in higher than expected temperature. 

- those who stay near the chiller will get too cold temperature, while the household might be able to turn down the fans/blowers, the air coming out of the blowers would still be cold. 

- basically, households could only control the airflow, not the temperature, their aircon will be too hot during hot weather, while too cold during old weather. 

Any experts here can correct my wild speculations ? 

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1 hour ago, Kklee said:

IMHO & AFAIK.
The pipes are different between AC and CCS. 
I read somewhere that the CCS pressure is 16 barg.  Comparatively,  car tyre pressure is around 2.2 bar. 

 

Looks like it. Big ugly pipes. One in and one out. 

 

6B383F9A-4B60-4391-AA43-C576BA9842A5.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Ct3833 said:

I am not familiar with this technology but I am afraid the households may have a few problems:

- those who stay further away  from the chilling system will not get cold enough temperature,  because by the time the chilled water travel all the way there , the  water temperature would have been risen in the pipe,  resulting in higher than expected temperature. 

- those who stay near the chiller will get too cold temperature, while the household might be able to turn down the fans/blowers, the air coming out of the blowers would still be cold. 

- basically, households could only control the airflow, not the temperature, their aircon will be too hot during hot weather, while too cold during old weather. 

Any experts here can correct my wild speculations ? 

i think the system would be a lot more complex and taking all these data in to maintain a more or less stable temp, regardless if you're nearer or further away from the plant.

 

Many video, but this guy mentions that the plant maintenance needs 3 or 4 times a day. I may have got the number wrong. But such a complex system, surely need full time technicians to be there all the time 24 hours. 

So yeah, who's going to pay their salary ? 

With your current split aircon, most people would use until it spoil or not cold, then decide to repair or junk. Not many would bother about maintenance.

With the chilled water system, i'm afraid there's not much choice in maintenance, like it or not.

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9 hours ago, Kb27 said:

i think the system would be a lot more complex and taking all these data in to maintain a more or less stable temp, regardless if you're nearer or further away from the plant.

 

Many video, but this guy mentions that the plant maintenance needs 3 or 4 times a day. I may have got the number wrong. But such a complex system, surely need full time technicians to be there all the time 24 hours. 

So yeah, who's going to pay their salary ? 

 

More than half of my electricity bills is probably aircon related. I read DC is at least 30% more efficiency and they are telling residents the saving is 15-20%. Over 1000 household, you go do the maths. 

https://files.danfoss.com/download/Heating/Danfoss_District_Cooling_Infographic.pdf

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Supercharged
1 hour ago, Kklim said:

Good for those who have high-end aquariums -- no longer need to buy chillers!

Connect to chiller piping into aquarium? Your fishy & corals will thank you, [inlove]  but difficult to regulate temperature. [sweatdrop]

foSxjyGx8O9N9YKoMLp3bnfhH8-oz1q8qxQudeLp

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:27 AM, Ysc3 said:

Save money for user / flat owner. 

Central cooling is not new if you have offices withing ORQ vicinity. Is it going to be cheaper to operate? Ask those commercial building operators and you get a very simple quick answer. How about residential? It will be less efficient than office buildings for sure. Take an extreme case, the entire HDB block only 1 master bed room switch on his air con. 😃 When you place all the eggs in a single basket, the basket broke, all the eggs drop off. So if the central plant or network fail, do have some fans on standby. haha

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13 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

I am not familiar with this technology but I am afraid the households may have a few problems:

- those who stay further away  from the chilling system will not get cold enough temperature,  because by the time the chilled water travel all the way there , the  water temperature would have been risen in the pipe,  resulting in higher than expected temperature. 

- those who stay near the chiller will get too cold temperature, while the household might be able to turn down the fans/blowers, the air coming out of the blowers would still be cold. 

- basically, households could only control the airflow, not the temperature, their aircon will be too hot during hot weather, while too cold during old weather. 

Any experts here can correct my wild speculations ? 

Hotel rooms are using a centralized aircon system as well. You dont see a condenser unit outside your room.

Do you feel that the aircon is cooler or warmer regardless of where your hotel room is? Malls also use the same centralized aircon system. Are there spots that are cooler or warmer than other spots?

You will realised it's all about heat transfer. Moving heat from the units to the roof via water and releasing the heat into the surrounding.

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Twincharged
19 minutes ago, Victor68 said:

Central cooling is not new if you have offices withing ORQ vicinity. Is it going to be cheaper to operate? Ask those commercial building operators and you get a very simple quick answer. How about residential? It will be less efficient than office buildings for sure. Take an extreme case, the entire HDB block only 1 master bed room switch on his air con. 😃 When you place all the eggs in a single basket, the basket broke, all the eggs drop off. So if the central plant or network fail, do have some fans on standby. haha

Just have to wait for hdb to say how they bill.

For me, the bill is most important.

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1 hour ago, Watwheels said:

Hotel rooms are using a centralized aircon system as well. You dont see a condenser unit outside your room.

Do you feel that the aircon is cooler or warmer regardless of where your hotel room is? Malls also use the same centralized aircon system. Are there spots that are cooler or warmer than other spots?

You will realised it's all about heat transfer. Moving heat from the units to the roof via water and releasing the heat into the surrounding.

Thanks for the video illustration. I am still skeptical because am not educated enough about how these system work. In some office buildings or even shopping centers, one may notice that those units at the far end are hot and stuffy,  likewise those facing the west sun are having hotter aircon environment than those facing the cooling areas. I could be wrong. While the cooling system feeds the water around the building,  there would be heat heat loss when the cold water move from one end to another, by the time the water gets to the last unit, it will be unrealistic to expect the water temperature to be as cold as that when it was fed to the first room.

Next scenario, if a user prefers to have 23 degree, and the other room likes to have 26 degree , how could this be achieved? i know it will likely be controlled by airflow since the temperature cannot be changed, that would mean the one who wants to have higher   temperature cannot turn on higher air flow ? and the one who needs lower temperature have to tune up his blower at night?   And if one unit prefers to have very cool air(in a extreme manner say 23 or 34 degree C) ,  likely that unit will have to be very disappointed since the supplied temperature is constant. I could be wrong.

Edited by Ct3833
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15 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Looks like it. Big ugly pipes. One in and one out. 

 

6B383F9A-4B60-4391-AA43-C576BA9842A5.jpeg

This is easy , conceal pipping, cornice or false ceiling would solve the problem.  

Edited by Ct3833
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3 minutes ago, Ct3833 said:

This is a easy , conceal pipping, cornice or false ceiling would solve the problem.  

The pipe useful leh. hahaha. Can hang my esso gas calendar.

-zwIvqaDccDB2DJpEFu0sHyf737DUwFv_Hb7NaqW

Hahaha.

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1 hour ago, Ysc3 said:

Just have to wait for hdb to say how they bill.

For me, the bill is most important.

If I read correctly,  SP will bill you, not HDB.   
 

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Twincharged
2 hours ago, Watwheels said:

Hotel rooms are using a centralized aircon system as well. You dont see a condenser unit outside your room.

Do you feel that the aircon is cooler or warmer regardless of where your hotel room is? Malls also use the same centralized aircon system. Are there spots that are cooler or warmer than other spots?

You will realised it's all about heat transfer. Moving heat from the units to the roof via water and releasing the heat into the surrounding.

Best explanation! 

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