Singapore Property Scene Discussion

[noobcarbuyer]

48 minutes ago, Roh96 said:

If i remember correctly, later buyers of Sky Habitat enjoyed 10% discount from developer. If without discount, the massive losses will be even higher. 

 

Sky Vue also had developer lelong sale with up to $150k discounts in January 2016. About 6% to 7% off the listed price. 

https://www.edgeprop.sg/property-news/price-trim-renews-interest-existing-projects

Edited November 23, 2020 by noobcarbuyer

[noobcarbuyer]

2 hours ago, Wt_know said:

annualised return < 3% ... enough to cover mortgage interests + expenses + commissions + cpf accrual interest bo?  

where is the MSW boa jiak property investing? hehe

leave the money in cpf with annualised 2.5% and use the cash to buy some bonds with additional 2% ...

song song gao jurong 4.5% return liao ... lol

Ya was wondering that too. 

Sky Vue's annualised profit of about 1.5% to 3% will turn into a loss once the mortage interest, CPF accrural interest, maintainence fee, property tax, stamp duties and agent fees are considered. 

I think buy a decent Bishan HDB flat in the same location and leave the balance in CPF + invest in blue chips / REITs will also get much better returns. 

[Hubwee]

3 hours ago, Wt_know said:

annualised return < 3% ... enough to cover mortgage interests + expenses + commissions + cpf accrual interest bo?  

where is the MSW boa jiak property investing? hehe

leave the money in cpf with annualised 2.5% and use the cash to buy some bonds with additional 2% ...

song song gao jurong 4.5% return liao ... lol

If for investment , rental income no need count ? Leave unit empty all these while ? 

if for self stay , then using your example of Leaving money in CPF and buying bonds means whole family have to sleep roadside ?

compare apples with apples  lei ...

[Wt_know]

7 hours ago, Hubwee said:

If for investment , rental income no need count ? Leave unit empty all these while ? 

if for self stay , then using your example of Leaving money in CPF and buying bonds means whole family have to sleep roadside ?

compare apples with apples  lei ...

i mean many guru “teach” bto/hdb upgrader (fully paid or almost settle) to sell bto and upgrade to condo to “hash” the bto/hdb “depreciating” and make money by upgrading to pte condo and sell later to cash out (sure make money)

in this scenario, is it better stay put in hdb and save up money in cpf (do not upgrade) and use cash to invest in bonds ... ok?

especially the big units most likely for own stay

Edited November 23, 2020 by Wt_know

[Knighthunter]

This is just how showing the data to fit purpose, there are stark differences on these 2 properties presented. At this moment most buyers are prefer smaller unit for lower quantum. I think at this moment buyers that have ability for bigger quantum or willing to strech are getting lesser. It can be seen recently that bigger units is getting harder to sell. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Knighthunter

[therock]

That’s rather sad actually because buyers are stuck at the 1 mil to 1.5 mil mark and end up with rather small homes. I don’t think I want a repeat of the situation HKG is facing here..

nowadays, a 1300 sq ft three bedder is considered huge?? 

[Wt_know]

1300sqft ... that’s penthouse with a roof that is another 500-700sqft ... hehe

[awhtc]

Nowadays new compact 3-bedders are around 900 sqft and these are 99 years leasehold properties.

[Wt_know]

2 hours ago, Wt_know said:

i mean many guru “teach” bto/hdb upgrader (fully paid or almost settle) to sell bto and upgrade to condo to “hash” the bto/hdb “depreciating” and make money by upgrading to pte condo and sell later to cash out (sure make money)

in this scenario, is it better stay put in hdb and save up money in cpf (do not upgrade) and use cash to invest in bonds ... ok?

especially the big units most likely for own stay

even for investment unit ... if buyer take max loan (75%) ...

the rental return is minimal after deducting expenses, taxes, agent commissions upon tenant renewal, mortgage interest, etc

the monthly passive income is either breakeven or minimum not great

as agent said ... the tenant help you to pay for the monthly mortgage so that you don't need cash outflow

unless buyer (investor) down huge downpayment ... because big portion of the profit went to mortgage interest

hence, owner really aim for capital appreciation no $200K-$300K no talk!

Edited November 24, 2020 by Wt_know

[noobcarbuyer]

51 minutes ago, Knighthunter said:

This is just how showing the data to fit purpose, there are stark differences on these 2 properties presented. At this moment most buyers are prefer smaller unit for lower quantum. I think at this moment buyers that have ability for bigger quantum or willing to strech are getting lesser. It can be seen recently that bigger units is getting harder to sell. 

Well, there may be some truth in that. 

The developer of both Sky Vue and Sky Habitat is Capitaland. 

Sky Habitat was designed when Liew Mum Leong was CEO of Capitaland. 

Sky Vue was designed after he had left Capitaland. 

Can see the stark difference in average unit sizes and quality of amenities between the 2 developments.

Sky Vue has a greater number of 1-bedders / 2-bedders and for some reason Sky Vue also comes with a multi storey car park and non-airconditioned lift lobbies. 

https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2012/5/33142/shoebox-units-almost-inhuman-capitaland-ceo

Singapore should put restrictions on the rising number of shoebox units as they are “almost inhuman”, according to CapitaLand CEO Liew Mun Leong (pictured).

“I am dead against shoebox developments,” he said in an article by Bloomberg. “The government should intervene. Singapore’s land is very precious and you are wasting your scarce resources” by developing shoebox homes.

[Throttle2]

 

 

1 hour ago, therock said:

That’s rather sad actually because buyers are stuck at the 1 mil to 1.5 mil mark and end up with rather small homes. I don’t think I want a repeat of the situation HKG is facing here..

nowadays, a 1300 sq ft three bedder is considered huge?? 

Abothen......

1000 sft, they already want to squeeze 3 bdrms in ......Horribly small. Some are half the size of HDB bdrms....

Yet, they will do everything they can to convince you the the layout is good and space is fully utilised blah blah....

[Wind30]

50 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

even for investment unit ... if buyer take max loan (75%) ...

the rental return is minimal after deducting expenses, taxes, agent commissions upon tenant renewal, mortgage interest, etc

the monthly passive income is either breakeven or minimum not great

as agent said ... the tenant help you to pay for the monthly mortgage so that you don't need cash outflow

unless buyer (investor) down huge downpayment ... because big portion of the profit went to mortgage interest

hence, owner really aim for capital appreciation no $200K-$300K no talk!

It all depends on the mortage interest rate... If it is 1%... its not hard to actually make money from  rental. My loan interest rate now is like 0.6% which is insanely low...

I never look at capital appreciation when buying my investment property. 

[Throttle2]

45 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

even for investment unit ... if buyer take max loan (75%) ...

the rental return is minimal after deducting expenses, taxes, agent commissions upon tenant renewal, mortgage interest, etc

the monthly passive income is either breakeven or minimum not great

as agent said ... the tenant help you to pay for the monthly mortgage so that you don't need cash outflow

unless buyer (investor) down huge downpayment ... because big portion of the profit went to mortgage interest

hence, owner really aim for capital appreciation no $200K-$300K no talk!

Just do simple maths, most of us already own one property. 

2nd property 15% stamp duty. For a $2mil place, thats $300k in taxes upfront.  A brand new E300 mercy with full options given to the Taxman.  $300k Blown away, in the trash, out of the window, up in smoke, as they say.....😁

some people decouple here, decouple there.  Sure, you go round to beat the numbers. But the social repercussions could be greater than you think.   

So much bulls**t and risk for $200-300k of profit which probably needs 10 yrs to materialise?  

I make that kind of money investing, in a year! For goodness sake !!

 

[Throttle2]

3 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

It all depends on the mortage interest rate... If it is 1%... its not hard to actually make money from  rental. My loan interest rate now is like 0.6% which is insanely low...

I never look at capital appreciation when buying my investment property. 

Dude, in that case you are really better off not.   Good thing, you did well to capture a cheap property which gave you extraordinary yield. Thats to your advantage.     

Its never hard making money from anything, really The question is always, whether it is worth it.   Risk , effort vs Returns

not saying that you are wrong.  To each his own perspective as always

 

[therock]

I drive by the Laguna and Mandarin Gardens condo every now and then, and I wonder what will happen to them..

It's nigh on impossible to secure 80% approval for an enbloc, or they have to set a really ridiculous reserve price. There are too many old residents who are reluctant to sell until it's too late or just don't care.

I know some original buyers of such places still living there for example... 
So when the property runs down, we may see a firesale or maybe a condo actually losing it's lease? 

[therock]

Does this feel a little like Skyvue in the finish and concept?

https://www.asiaone.com/money/queens-peak-review-uninspiring-design-its-all-about-location

[therock]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/property-market-home-sales-ura-purchase-cooling-measures-covid-13651248

 

Quote

Potential buyers and sellers evaluating the private residential market should focus on market fundamentals, including demand and supply dynamics, price trends, and historical data and adopt a holistic approach and take a long-term view when investing in property.

 

[zipping]

https://www.zaobao.com.sg/znews/singapore/story20201129-1104664

李智陞：不能只有富人才负担得起 黄金地段将建租赁组屋并管控转售价

来自 / 联合早报

文 / 杨浚鑫

剪辑 / 涂汶声

摄像 / 林泽锐, 林国明

编导 / 宋慧纯

发布 / 2020年11月29日 3:30 AM

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国家发展部长李智陞告诉《联合早报》，当局计划双管齐下，一方面确保黄金地段组屋项目涵盖各类房型，包括适合低收入家庭和年长人士的租赁组屋和较小型组屋，另一方面制定一套定价措施，不仅在预购阶段确保价格可负担得起，也能在转售时“看紧”房价。

为确保南部濒水区等黄金地段不成为富人的专利，政府有意在这些地点兴建低收入家庭也可负担的租赁组屋和较小型组屋，并对优质组屋加设转售限制，为这些抢手单位的房价降温。新的房价平抑措施，也可能应用于其他地点优越的新组屋项目。

国家发展部计划在几个月后拟出措施，并征询公众意见。

今年7月全国大选后接任国家发展部长的李智陞，日前接受《联合早报》专访时强调，政府会继续兴建公共住屋，包括在市中心等黄金地段，为各区注入活力，但须遵循公平原则，并确保这类住宅区能长久地保持包容且多元。

他说，预购组屋屋主在转售优质组屋时已获得一笔“横财”，这其中牵涉公平问题。相较于其他新组屋，黄金地段的组屋在预购阶段已获得较多津贴，以确保人们负担得起，日后脱售时，屋价也有很大的升值空间，让这类屋主享有双重的甜头。

“如果优质单位以高价出售和交易，那就存在只有较富裕的国人才买得起这类住宅的风险。如此一来，住宅区的性质将改变，价格可能超出普通国人的负担能力。”

要保持所有组屋市镇的包容与多元，就须确保一般国人有能力住在新加坡任何地区，包括黄金地段。但这类地段近年频频产生百万组屋，引发关注，突出例子如丹戎巴葛达士岭摩天组屋，不断刷新最高的组屋转售价。

综合建屋发展局今年首九个月的数据，以及新加坡房地产联合交易网SRX的10月组屋转售预估数据，今年首10个月预计已有59宗百万元组屋交易。

这意味着，即使政府在黄金地段兴建负担得起的组屋，几代下来那里也可能成为富人区。

为了避免这样的情况，李智陞透露，当局计划双管齐下，一方面确保黄金地段的组屋项目涵盖各类房型，包括适合低收入家庭和年长人士的租赁组屋和较小型组屋，另一方面制定一套定价措施，不仅在预购阶段确保价格可负担得起，也能在转售时“看紧”房价。

李智陞没有进一步阐述如何调控转售价，但他说：“情况不该是建屋局出售组屋单位时，屋价是可负担得起的，但随着单位转手，屋价被推得非常高，而我们无法限制或让价格维持在常人可承担范围内，任市场左右。”

近年来黄金地段组屋屋价问题备受国人关注，在南部濒水区兴建多种房型、缩短屋契以控制房价、延长最低居住年限、提高转售抽润或征收税务、制定新定价模式等提议不时浮上台面。

不过这还是政府首次明确表态有意在转售时出手稳住价格，并且将新的定价模式应用于南部濒水区以外的其他组屋项目。

李智陞表示，政府还在深入研究国人的种种建议，并计划在几个月后分享拟议采取的措施，再通过不同的对话会收集反馈。

傍海的南部濒水区（Greater Southern Waterfront）属黄金地段组屋的其中一例，但根据政府去年发布的发展总蓝图，该区要于下来五年至10年才会分阶段开发。

李智陞指出，其他优质组屋项目可能在未来几年，甚至几个月后推出，因此须尽快展开讨论，征求国人意见，以推出一个可在短期内试行的屋价模式。

“公共住屋不仅关乎住宅和房地产，也与社会政策息息相关，宗旨是为全国人民提供住房，确保各行各业、不同背景、不同种族的国人能充分融合。我们不希望出现只有富人才买得起的高档组屋区。”