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therock

Singapore Property Scene Discussion

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2 hours ago, noobcarbuyer said:

Tale of 2 side by side condos at Bishan.

Sky Habitat and Sky Vue.

Got this off a property agent's mailer. 

Sky Habitat is of course in the doldrums.

But surprised that a 33rd floor 3 bedder unit (1141 sq ft) at Sky Vue only managed a $100k profit (about 6% profit) after holding for 4 years?  And that's considered "massive profits" as per the mailer? 

At the same time I am hearing colleges saying that some of the more popular BTO HDBs are getting 200k to 400k profits after the 5 years MOP! 

Am I missing something here?

20201123_195529.thumb.jpg.b8c1b937b5525f959d6e5bc0d4757442.jpg

If i remember correctly, later buyers of Sky Habitat enjoyed 10% discount from developer. If without discount, the massive losses will be even higher. 

 

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5th Gear (edited)
48 minutes ago, Roh96 said:

If i remember correctly, later buyers of Sky Habitat enjoyed 10% discount from developer. If without discount, the massive losses will be even higher. 

 

Sky Vue also had developer lelong sale with up to $150k discounts in January 2016. About 6% to 7% off the listed price. 

https://www.edgeprop.sg/property-news/price-trim-renews-interest-existing-projects

Edited by noobcarbuyer

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2 hours ago, Wt_know said:

annualised return < 3% ... enough to cover mortgage interests + expenses + commissions + cpf accrual interest bo? [sweatdrop] 

where is the MSW boa jiak property investing? hehe

leave the money in cpf with annualised 2.5% and use the cash to buy some bonds with additional 2% ...

song song gao jurong 4.5% return liao ... lol

Ya was wondering that too. 

Sky Vue's annualised profit of about 1.5% to 3% will turn into a loss once the mortage interest, CPF accrural interest, maintainence fee, property tax, stamp duties and agent fees are considered. 

I think buy a decent Bishan HDB flat in the same location and leave the balance in CPF + invest in blue chips / REITs will also get much better returns. 

20201123_195529.thumb.jpg.0383a7ed4bc2e3ea699e7b05e0ebf993.jpg

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Supercharged
3 hours ago, Wt_know said:

annualised return < 3% ... enough to cover mortgage interests + expenses + commissions + cpf accrual interest bo? [sweatdrop] 

where is the MSW boa jiak property investing? hehe

leave the money in cpf with annualised 2.5% and use the cash to buy some bonds with additional 2% ...

song song gao jurong 4.5% return liao ... lol

If for investment , rental income no need count ? Leave unit empty all these while ? 

if for self stay , then using your example of Leaving money in CPF and buying bonds means whole family have to sleep roadside ?

compare apples with apples  lei ...

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Supersonic (edited)
7 hours ago, Hubwee said:

If for investment , rental income no need count ? Leave unit empty all these while ? 

if for self stay , then using your example of Leaving money in CPF and buying bonds means whole family have to sleep roadside ?

compare apples with apples  lei ...

i mean many guru “teach” bto/hdb upgrader (fully paid or almost settle) to sell bto and upgrade to condo to “hash” the bto/hdb “depreciating” and make money by upgrading to pte condo and sell later to cash out (sure make money)

in this scenario, is it better stay put in hdb and save up money in cpf (do not upgrade) and use cash to invest in bonds ... ok?

especially the big units most likely for own stay

Edited by Wt_know

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3rd Gear (edited)

This is just how showing the data to fit purpose, there are stark differences on these 2 properties presented. At this moment most buyers are prefer smaller unit for lower quantum. I think at this moment buyers that have ability for bigger quantum or willing to strech are getting lesser. It can be seen recently that bigger units is getting harder to sell. 

Edited by Knighthunter

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Twincharged

That’s rather sad actually because buyers are stuck at the 1 mil to 1.5 mil mark and end up with rather small homes. I don’t think I want a repeat of the situation HKG is facing here..

nowadays, a 1300 sq ft three bedder is considered huge?? 

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Supersonic

1300sqft ... that’s penthouse with a roof that is another 500-700sqft ... hehe

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Nowadays new compact 3-bedders are around 900 sqft and these are 99 years leasehold properties.

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Supersonic (edited)
2 hours ago, Wt_know said:

i mean many guru “teach” bto/hdb upgrader (fully paid or almost settle) to sell bto and upgrade to condo to “hash” the bto/hdb “depreciating” and make money by upgrading to pte condo and sell later to cash out (sure make money)

in this scenario, is it better stay put in hdb and save up money in cpf (do not upgrade) and use cash to invest in bonds ... ok?

especially the big units most likely for own stay

even for investment unit ... if buyer take max loan (75%) ...

the rental return is minimal after deducting expenses, taxes, agent commissions upon tenant renewal, mortgage interest, etc

the monthly passive income is either breakeven or minimum not great

as agent said ... the tenant help you to pay for the monthly mortgage so that you don't need cash outflow

unless buyer (investor) down huge downpayment ... because big portion of the profit went to mortgage interest

hence, owner really aim for capital appreciation no $200K-$300K no talk!

Edited by Wt_know

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51 minutes ago, Knighthunter said:

This is just how showing the data to fit purpose, there are stark differences on these 2 properties presented. At this moment most buyers are prefer smaller unit for lower quantum. I think at this moment buyers that have ability for bigger quantum or willing to strech are getting lesser. It can be seen recently that bigger units is getting harder to sell. 

Well, there may be some truth in that. 

The developer of both Sky Vue and Sky Habitat is Capitaland. 

Sky Habitat was designed when Liew Mum Leong was CEO of Capitaland. 

Sky Vue was designed after he had left Capitaland. 

Can see the stark difference in average unit sizes and quality of amenities between the 2 developments.

Sky Vue has a greater number of 1-bedders / 2-bedders and for some reason Sky Vue also comes with a multi storey car park and non-airconditioned lift lobbies. 

https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-management-news/2012/5/33142/shoebox-units-almost-inhuman-capitaland-ceo

Singapore should put restrictions on the rising number of shoebox units as they are “almost inhuman”, according to CapitaLand CEO Liew Mun Leong (pictured).

“I am dead against shoebox developments,” he said in an article by Bloomberg. “The government should intervene. Singapore’s land is very precious and you are wasting your scarce resources” by developing shoebox homes.

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Supersonic

 

 

1 hour ago, therock said:

That’s rather sad actually because buyers are stuck at the 1 mil to 1.5 mil mark and end up with rather small homes. I don’t think I want a repeat of the situation HKG is facing here..

nowadays, a 1300 sq ft three bedder is considered huge?? 

Abothen......

1000 sft, they already want to squeeze 3 bdrms in ......Horribly small. Some are half the size of HDB bdrms....

Yet, they will do everything they can to convince you the the layout is good and space is fully utilised blah blah....

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Supercharged
50 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

even for investment unit ... if buyer take max loan (75%) ...

the rental return is minimal after deducting expenses, taxes, agent commissions upon tenant renewal, mortgage interest, etc

the monthly passive income is either breakeven or minimum not great

as agent said ... the tenant help you to pay for the monthly mortgage so that you don't need cash outflow

unless buyer (investor) down huge downpayment ... because big portion of the profit went to mortgage interest

hence, owner really aim for capital appreciation no $200K-$300K no talk!

It all depends on the mortage interest rate... If it is 1%... its not hard to actually make money from  rental. My loan interest rate now is like 0.6% which is insanely low...

I never look at capital appreciation when buying my investment property. 

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Supersonic
45 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

even for investment unit ... if buyer take max loan (75%) ...

the rental return is minimal after deducting expenses, taxes, agent commissions upon tenant renewal, mortgage interest, etc

the monthly passive income is either breakeven or minimum not great

as agent said ... the tenant help you to pay for the monthly mortgage so that you don't need cash outflow

unless buyer (investor) down huge downpayment ... because big portion of the profit went to mortgage interest

hence, owner really aim for capital appreciation no $200K-$300K no talk!

Just do simple maths, most of us already own one property. 

2nd property 15% stamp duty. For a $2mil place, thats $300k in taxes upfront.  A brand new E300 mercy with full options given to the Taxman.  $300k Blown away, in the trash, out of the window, up in smoke, as they say.....😁

some people decouple here, decouple there.  Sure, you go round to beat the numbers. But the social repercussions could be greater than you think.   

So much bulls**t and risk for $200-300k of profit which probably needs 10 yrs to materialise?  

I make that kind of money investing, in a year! For goodness sake !!

 

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Supersonic
3 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

It all depends on the mortage interest rate... If it is 1%... its not hard to actually make money from  rental. My loan interest rate now is like 0.6% which is insanely low...

I never look at capital appreciation when buying my investment property. 

Dude, in that case you are really better off not.   Good thing, you did well to capture a cheap property which gave you extraordinary yield. Thats to your advantage.     

Its never hard making money from anything, really The question is always, whether it is worth it.   Risk , effort vs Returns

not saying that you are wrong.  To each his own perspective as always

 

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Twincharged

I drive by the Laguna and Mandarin Gardens condo every now and then, and I wonder what will happen to them..

It's nigh on impossible to secure 80% approval for an enbloc, or they have to set a really ridiculous reserve price. There are too many old residents who are reluctant to sell until it's too late or just don't care.

I know some original buyers of such places still living there for example... 
So when the property runs down, we may see a firesale or maybe a condo actually losing it's lease? 

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Twincharged

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/commentary/property-market-home-sales-ura-purchase-cooling-measures-covid-13651248

 

Quote

Potential buyers and sellers evaluating the private residential market should focus on market fundamentals, including demand and supply dynamics, price trends, and historical data and adopt a holistic approach and take a long-term view when investing in property.

 

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